#1
Just bought a cheapish PA package, 140 watt head-styled mixer and two cabinets. My only gainy pedal (BOSS SD-1) decided to eat sh*t again, and I thought I could run my guitar into my Crate amp and from there to the PA, but I guess the wattage adds up and is too much for the system (or something...?) because all I got was wicked loud feedback.
I was planning on getting a Tiny Terror and putting that into the PA but I guess that'd cause a similar issue.
Thoughts?
Custom-Built Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Orange Rockerverb 50 Combo
#2
Describe exactly how you have it connected. Line out to line in?
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3


Why would you do that? I'm confused as to what you're trying to do and where the pedal comes in? And you have a broken boss pedal? That's rare
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#4
Well, you can use the DI out of the Crate and just not crank the amp so much but go through the PA and apply more volume there, or did you mic it?
If you did you'll have to make sure the mic is not facing any speakers from the PA, so you need to have the speakers on a line or in front of the miked amp (think of stage setups where the PA speakers are level with the end of the stage while amps are way back).
#5
Quote by lucky1978

And you have a broken boss pedal? That's rare


Yes, well it happened and it's frustrating. It worked for a while and then died again. IVE tried numerous batteries, and the thing just won't turn on.
I've been trying to plug my crate into my PA (direct out to direct in) for the gain.
Custom-Built Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Orange Rockerverb 50 Combo
#6
Im confused. Why would you want to do this? Is the amp not loud enough? Im not sure what the direct out actually puts out, since i dont know what amp specificaly you have, but the only thing you should connect to the PA is the line out. If you conected the speaker out, you are probably very lucky if you didnt fry your pa.

Also, pluging a distortion pedal into a PA will sound like crap. I speak out of experience. The only way to make it sound good is to use some kind of amp emulator, like the line6 pods or whatever.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#7
not to be a dick but considering the gear in your sig you are spending money foolishly and clearly don't know what you are doing. what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
not to be a dick but considering the gear in your sig you are spending money foolishly and clearly don't know what you are doing. what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I haven't updated my signature in a while. It now reflects what I actually use. How exactly am I spending my money foolishly? I get cheap guitars because they're what I can afford, and I've been told that as long as you're not playing one of those cheap-as-hell Walmart guitars, the right amp is more important than having the ideal axe.
I'm trying to make it easy to balance levels for my band and distribute the sound throughout our practice space.
The Crate (the exact model is now in my sig) is great-sounding and can go mighty loud, but it can of course only face one direction.

Quote by gorkyporky
Im confused. Why would you want to do this? Is the amp not loud enough? Im not sure what the direct out actually puts out, since i dont know what amp specificaly you have, but the only thing you should connect to the PA is the line out. If you conected the speaker out, you are probably very lucky if you didnt fry your pa.

I connected it to the speaker out. Whoops. Nothing was fried, but I'll not be doing that again hah.
Quote by gorkyporky
Also, pluging a distortion pedal into a PA will sound like crap. I speak out of experience. The only way to make it sound good is to use some kind of amp emulator, like the line6 pods or whatever.

So is my only traditional option to skip the PA altogether and get a cabinet of my own or something? I want to do driving effects and others too occasionally, and I want to go loud and wide...

I'm really sorry I know nothing about this, y'all. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Custom-Built Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Orange Rockerverb 50 Combo
#9
You connected the speaker out to a PA channel? Didn't you notice that the channel was clipping to hell? Seriously, there's your error right there. Connect the amp to a speaker cabinet and shove a mic in front of it.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#10
If it is a solid state amp, unless the manual specifies that it will fry, it usually works without speaker load. That means that you can use the direct out (not speaker out!) or the fx send to feed into a mixer OK. How it sounds then is a different thing. My buddy used to do that with a Crate and it was pretty nasty sounding from what I remember, a lot better to mic its cabinet.
#11
Quote by Mayge
I haven't updated my signature in a while. It now reflects what I actually use. How exactly am I spending my money foolishly? I get cheap guitars because they're what I can afford, and I've been told that as long as you're not playing one of those cheap-as-hell Walmart guitars, the right amp is more important than having the ideal axe.

I too am a poverty stricken guitarist but I have a bit of a different philosophy. My approach is, I'm too poor to waste my money on shitty gear. Its better to save a lil longer and get it right than it is to buy a cheap pos just cause you have the money for it now. The difference between a new $200 guitar and a new $600 guitar can be massive. And the same for amps. However, I have no such approach to pedals.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#12
Yep, running speaker out > channel input on a PA is a good way to make a starving musician more poor. Luckily modern gear has limiters that offer some brief protection.... until you cook the limiters and fry the amp and the PA. In the old days this might have resulted in a visit from the fire dept. When in doubt: RTFM

Your amp has no line level out so if you want it to run through the PA, mic it. Don't want to buy another mic? Tilt the amp back and angle it towards the band so everyone can hear it better. Our knees don't hear so good.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#13
Quote by Cajundaddy

Your amp has no line level out so if you want it to run through the PA, mic it. Don't want to buy another mic? Tilt the amp back and angle it towards the band so everyone can hear it better. Our knees don't hear so good.

That's what I've been doing. I'll keep that up for now.
And the best option would be...to get individual cabinets for guitar and bass, then run mics and keyboard through the PA?
Custom-Built Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Orange Rockerverb 50 Combo
#14
For bass you can just do it with a DI box. For the guitar, yes, cab and mic. The smart move is to stick a mic in front of the guitar amp. It gives the sound guy the opportunity to add you to FoH if he needs to.
Keyboards work fine into the desk but most keyboardists I've known prefer to have their own foldback rig. Mine is a rack with a 1000W PA amp, an 8 channel line mixer into 15" PA bins. It's not uncommon for the keyboards player to have a better PA than the house.

Edit. This is the case with most bassists too. Those enormous rigs they use aren't for the audience's benefit, they're just foldback for the band. Sometimes they will cover the hall by themselves but more often than not, the bass is through FoH mostly off a DI box. Some have good DI boxes in the head, my bassist uses the DI output of his MarkBass head into the desk.

The main thing to watch is how complex you are making the foldback mix. If you rely on the wedges for ALL your onstage monitoring you will get nights where you can't hear shit. Trust me, you want to be in control of the onstage monitoring as much as possible.
That's why we all use big guitar amps - so we can hear ourselves over the drummer without having to rely on the wedges. Seriously, some wedges sound shit and some sound guys are arseholes and/or incompetent.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Dec 6, 2014,
#15
After a while you just learn to play live by intuition. Most of the nights on my last few years n touring band I could care less, we were so well rehearsed so it didn't matter. Don't get me wrong, it was nice to have a competent mix but it was rare.

In your case, ie rehearsals - you can use the PA to enhance the sound, with main use being kick, vox and keys, then bring in some bass and guitar to enhance but don't rely on it as your sole amplification.

There's also the often disregarded headphone amplifier, it is possible the whole band to turn down and rehearse that way.
#16
why do you feel the need to fill your practice space with sound from different directions (if I'm understanding you)? when you're on stage the sound projects out to the audience. sounds to me like what you really want is monitors. are you having trouble hearing the other band members? a couple of monitor wedges would send the sound from the PA back towards you as that is their function.
#17
Quote by monwobobbo
why do you feel the need to fill your practice space with sound from different directions (if I'm understanding you)? when you're on stage the sound projects out to the audience. sounds to me like what you really want is monitors. are you having trouble hearing the other band members? a couple of monitor wedges would send the sound from the PA back towards you as that is their function.

Yes, exactly. It's hard everyone to hear the guitar, and if I turn it up to the point where they can, it deafens me.
Custom-Built Strat
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Orange Rockerverb 50 Combo
#18
Quote by Mayge
Yes, exactly. It's hard everyone to hear the guitar, and if I turn it up to the point where they can, it deafens me.


do you have your amp on the floor? if this is the case then raise it up off the floor about 3 feet for better projection. you can also set it up so it is facing the drummer and bass player. sounds like you guys need to work on balancing your live sound for practice. you should be able to find a volume that makes you heard over the drums but doesn't drown everyone out. it takes a fair amount of volume to be heard over drums. if you are practicing in a very small room that may be your issue as well.
#19
Quote by Cathbard

Keyboards work fine into the desk but most keyboardists I've known prefer to have their own foldback rig. Mine is a rack with a 1000W PA amp, an 8 channel line mixer into 15" PA bins. It's not uncommon for the keyboards player to have a better PA than the house.

Edit. This is the case with most bassists too. Those enormous rigs they use aren't for the audience's benefit, they're just foldback for the band. Sometimes they will cover the hall by themselves but more often than not, the bass is through FoH mostly off a DI box.


Puzzackly.

This is one of the speaker cabs I use for keys, bass and modeled guitar. It's essentially a PA-type cabinet with a whole lot of available bottom end (this will handle about 900W RMS), but it's got a nice flat response. It can be used as a wedge (as shown), stacked vertically, or put up on a speaker stand (I've got "top hats" built in) for pseudo PA use.



It's a fEARless F115, with a 15" Eminence Kappalite 3015LF, a 6" mids driver and a 1" tweeter.

Essentially, I've got a mixer and the keys go direct to that. Guitars and bass go to preamps and then into the mixer, then to a 1500W power amp and into a pair of these. The preamps, and keys, however, have other outputs that go to the main board as well.
#20
Quote by Mayge
Yes, exactly. It's hard everyone to hear the guitar, and if I turn it up to the point where they can, it deafens me.


Don't set up for practice the way you set up for a gig. You're the audience. So put your amps (and your PA speakers) out in front of you, facing the band. Put everything up on stands.

#21
I've got a stand like that for my RM100 - but I can't extend it that far because it's too damn heavy. The whole thing wants to fall over unless I run it at it's lowest position. It works just fine on the lowest setting though. It's amazing what a difference it makes.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band