#1
hi yall

Can anyone think of a existing, democratic regime that isn't parliamentary or presidential? I have a paper due tomorrow and either I'm too tired and blatantly missing an obvious choice, or I really don't know of one.

My best so far is Switzerland since it doesn't share the representative view of democracy, although it still has a parliament

halp
#4
North Korea, they're super democratic and they aren't run by a president but by a supreme demigod.
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#5
Write a thesis on how the observation of the populace is the extent to which they are governed
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#6
uuuuhhhhh, buuuhhhh, gubbagguuuubbbbaaa.

I fail to see how any non-representative, democratic government would work that wasn't a very, very small community. Having a popular vote decide every little issue of policy would be absurd. I'd love to hear if there actually is a "correct" answer to this, as I'm curious how it would manifest.

I would think something like Ancient Greek democracy, but that's obviously not currently extant.
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#7
I would say the Zapatista but that's not developed and would probably be 2edgy4urproffesor

Lebanon kind of. It doesn't fit your criteria but they have a unique system.

Switzerland as you said is fairly close.

Also Samoa is a unique blend of faamatai and parliamentary politics. Not a developed country really but not third world either. You can't label it using those terms really so it might fit your criteria. inb4 snipelfritz tells me Samoa doesn't matter again.

Iroquios Confederacy historically had a unique form of "democracy" (not really democracy by modern definitions but in some ways more "free"). Now that's mostly symbolic and they have various fragmented US/Canadian style systems but might still be worth discussing.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Dec 9, 2014,
#8
Lebanon's system of gov't is seriously awesome. I mean, for an Arab gov't, anyway.


Also I can't think of a single non-parliamentary gov't in this world.
#9
Quote by snipelfritz
uuuuhhhhh, buuuhhhh, gubbagguuuubbbbaaa.

I fail to see how any non-representative, democratic government would work that wasn't a very, very small community. Having a popular vote decide every little issue of policy would be absurd. I'd love to hear if there actually is a "correct" answer to this, as I'm curious how it would manifest.

I would think something like Ancient Greek democracy, but that's obviously not currently extant.



I agree.

I also think nothing will work without a leader anyway.

It's basic logic really. If two people are equal in "role" (ie both in a political party, or member of the same group/business etc.), then it's only logical to state that both meanings have the same value.

Saying one person's ideal is worth more, is bias. Even if this person makes way more sense by account of logic, we agreed for unbias sake that everyone's voice is worth equally, or at least that's the whole ideal in democracy.

If one person stands for something, and another one is against. One should never conform to the other. It creates a situation where one ideal is given up.

A single person (3rd party) making the decisions results in that stuff actually happens/goes through, but the opposing party's ideal will still 'stay alive' in it's full integrity, at least if this person feels it can add something to society or stays with his political agenda.

Also to make sure, a president is not the governing power of the country. Much like a a lot popstars, he's the representative in image only, well mostly anyways.

He's part of 'the power', and even though people can go corrupt, the concept of democracy does not state to give power to one person.

It's not that clean cut off course in actual reality, but it's the best realistic ideal to this day that seems to work out for the best. Off course opinions vary on this, and I do not want to devalue anyone with communistic or other political beliefs.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#10
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I agree.

I also think nothing will work without a leader anyway.

It's basic logic really. If two people are equal in "role" (ie both in a political party, or member of the same group/business etc.), then it's only logical to state that both meanings have the same value.

Saying one person's ideal is worth more, is bias. Even if this person makes way more sense by account of logic, we agreed for unbias sake that everyone's voice is worth equally, or at least that's the whole ideal in democracy.

If one person stands for something, and another one is against. One should never conform to the other. It creates a situation where one ideal is given up.

A single person (3rd party) making the decisions results in that stuff actually happens/goes through, but the opposing party's ideal will still 'stay alive' in it's full integrity, at least if this person feels it can add something to society or stays with his political agenda.

Also to make sure, a president is not the governing power of the country. Much like a a lot popstars, he's the representative in image only, well mostly anyways.

He's part of 'the power', and even though people can go corrupt, the concept of democracy does not state to give power to one person.

It's not that clean cut off course in actual reality, but it's the best realistic ideal to this day that seems to work out for the best. Off course opinions vary on this, and I do not want to devalue anyone with communistic or other political beliefs.

this is all uneducated nonsense. opinionated blather badly expressed as objective rules. tears fall on the spanish revolution
#11
Quote by Thrashtastic15
this is all uneducated nonsense. opinionated blather badly expressed as objective rules. tears fall on the spanish revolution


explain

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#12
Quote by xxdarrenxx
explain

"i think nothing will work without a leader it is basic logic". this is basic stupidity.
#13
Quote by Thrashtastic15
"i think nothing will work without a leader it is basic logic". this is basic stupidity.


Do you have an example of anything working without leadership?

Leadership happens all the way to the most basic of living beings (queen wasps, wolf pack leader, alpha male in primates.

To me it seems a natural thing, not a human made concept, how is that basic stupidity?

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#14
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Do you have an example of anything working without leadership?


anarcho-syndacism of Catalonia and Aragon. Worked decently until Soviet involvement combined with both sides on the Spanish Civil War fighting them ruined it. It was, however, not perfect, and they committed atrocities of their own during their formation. Despite this, there are people that view it as a shining example of communism working perfectly which is why thrash is being satirical.

/boring post.
#15
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Do you have an example of anything working without leadership?

Leadership happens all the way to the most basic of living beings (queen wasps, wolf pack leader, alpha male in primates.

To me it seems a natural thing, not a human made concept, how is that basic stupidity?

read a book
#16
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Do you have an example of anything working without leadership?

Leadership happens all the way to the most basic of living beings (queen wasps, wolf pack leader, alpha male in primates.

To me it seems a natural thing, not a human made concept, how is that basic stupidity?

The internet.
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#17
Quote by slipknot5678
anarcho-syndacism of Catalonia and Aragon. Worked decently until Soviet involvement combined with both sides on the Spanish Civil War fighting them ruined it. It was, however, not perfect, and they committed atrocities of their own during their formation. Despite this, there are people that view it as a shining example of communism working perfectly which is why thrash is being satirical.

/boring post.


It's not that clean cut off course in actual reality, but it's the best realistic ideal to this day that seems to work out for the best. Off course opinions vary on this, and I do not want to devalue anyone with communistic or other political beliefs.


Is the last I wrote.

It seems that countries who follow the democracy principle with leaders at the top thrive best.

I find it a bit biased to use 1 example of where this communism worked to weigh more heavily than countless countries with democratic systems and clear leadership that you and I are apart of.

I do not know for sure if there wasn't a person or a group at the front to propel this example of where it worked, or that people were just so fed up that this feeling of no hope was collectively big enough to just jump in the deep end and try out something different.

I guess the latter would indicate indeed a no leadership approach, but for how long did it last. Or for how long should it last to be able to say it is realistically the better choice of governing a country.

I do believe in the power of common interest, but it's on the principle everyone 'behaves' or not a single person grows power hungry.

I find that idealistic and not realistic.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#18
Quote by RAB11
The internet.


Well the internet is a vague term.

Let's take our forum.

What happens without law (forum rules), lawmakers (owners of UG) and mods (enforcers)?

You think the pit will keep itself in check?

We can't even vote on modship or ownership, so even 'the people' are not needed to run this place, just enforcers and/or leaders.

This concept goes from as big as running a country, to as small as these things.

Quote by Thrashtastic15
read a book


How it this an argument?

If I read the bible does that mean god is real?

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#19
anarchy in the UG!
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#20
Quote by xxdarrenxx


How it this an argument?

you are arguing about something you know nothing about. there is no argument as you do not have enough knowledge to make a coherent, relevant point.
#21
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Well the internet is a vague term.

It isn't vague at all.

"Internet: that which acts through intermediary operants wifi and/or ethernet cables."
- Al Gore
SGT. HARTMAN: Where in hell are you from anyway, Private?
COWBOY: Sir, Texas, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: Holy dogshit! Texas! Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy! And you don't look much like a steer to me, so that kinda narrows it down!! Do you suck dicks!?
COWBOY: Sir, no, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: Are you a peter-puffer!?
COWBOY: Sir, no, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: I'll bet you're the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around! I'll be watching you!!
#22
Quote by Thrashtastic15
you are arguing about something you know nothing about. there is no argument as you do not have enough knowledge to make a coherent, relevant point.


Could you name me a specific book/books or text that makes a strong case against everything I said.

I mean an actual title, I like to learn more.

Quote by Zaphikh
It isn't vague at all.

"Internet: that which acts through intermediary operants wifi and/or ethernet cables."
- Al Gore



I used the wrong wording. Meant broad.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#23
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I used the wrong wording. Meant broadband.

ftfy
SGT. HARTMAN: Where in hell are you from anyway, Private?
COWBOY: Sir, Texas, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: Holy dogshit! Texas! Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy! And you don't look much like a steer to me, so that kinda narrows it down!! Do you suck dicks!?
COWBOY: Sir, no, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: Are you a peter-puffer!?
COWBOY: Sir, no, sir!
SGT. HARTMAN: I'll bet you're the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around! I'll be watching you!!
#24
pencil
How do you make a signature? Is this a signature? Sig?.... Nature?..... Sigmund Freud?...... Nature Valley?.... Sigmund Fraud?..... Frankie Valli?.... ah, $!*@ it...
#25
Hmm, so a conversation took off while I was sleeping. I have t-minus four hours to write this paper (it's only a 4-pager), but I changed my topic to comparing identity demands in either two of these four countries

France
Britain
Germany
Japan

So if you guys would like to discuss different identity demands in these countries, have at it.


I also think my prof must have meant the different between direct and representative democracies because there is seemingly no half decent non parliamentary democracy in the world. He's Russian so we can cut him slack on phrasing
Last edited by Jmoarguitar at Dec 9, 2014,
#26
From what I know Cuba, is currently a democratic republic, and running well, but I haven't done deep research into it. Democratic countries without parliaments you're best looking for anarcho socialist countries, but I don't know of any. Certainly not Western ones as we go to war with non-right wing countries.
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Last edited by Banjocal at Dec 9, 2014,
#27
Quote by Jmoarguitar
hi yall

Can anyone think of a existing, democratic regime that isn't parliamentary or presidential? I have a paper due tomorrow and either I'm too tired and blatantly missing an obvious choice, or I really don't know of one.

My best so far is Switzerland since it doesn't share the representative view of democracy, although it still has a parliament

halp



are we talking countries? because what about the UN, or the EU? I mean I know there is leadership there, or some countries with veto rights and shit, but it might be something?

Quote by Thrashtastic15
read a book


ffs either tell the guy why he's "wrong" in your eyes or don't comment at all. if that's how you are in a discussion all the time you might want to grow up.
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Last edited by BjarnedeGraaf at Dec 9, 2014,
#28
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
are we talking countries? because what about the UN, or the EU? I mean I know there is leadership there, or some countries with veto rights and shit, but it might be something?


ffs either tell the guy why he's "wrong" in your eyes or don't comment at all. if that's how you are in a discussion all the time you might want to grow up.



I agree. I want to learn more, I just stated my observations and I get 2 or 3 personal attacks, even in the replies after I stay open towards him.

The real dumb thing I could do would be to just assume I'm wrong from a random stranger on the internet, and that's what thrash wants me to do.

He might be 100% more knowledgeable than me, but give me something to work with. I like to find things out for myself to see if they are true or not, if that's considered dumb, than I consider this trolling.

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#29
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I agree. I want to learn more, I just stated my observations and I get 2 or 3 personal attacks, even in the replies after I stay open towards him.

The real dumb thing I could do would be to just assume I'm wrong from a random stranger on the internet, and that's what thrash wants me to do.

He might be 100% more knowledgeable than me, but give me something to work with. I like to find things out for myself to see if they are true or not, if that's considered dumb, than I consider this trolling.


to be honest I thought you had a point when you said it was natural to have a leader.
It is. even way back with neanderthalers.

So I'm intrigued to find out what our demi-god thrash knows what we don't. Enlighten us Thrash.
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#30
Quote by snipelfritz
I would think something like Ancient Greek democracy, but that's obviously not currently extant.


it wasn't exactly everything it's made out to be today. it's a complicated subject typically simplified and invoked for some attempt at political legitmacy. additionally, it is usually collapsed to some single point in time and space. this is problematic because many of the better stuff about democracy in ancient greece occured in different places or at different times.

for example, the radical inclusion of non-property owning natural born males into the category of athenian citizen (thus gaining them suffurage) did lead to the abolishment of slavery for all citizens since they could now vote against their own enslavement, but it also led to the importation of foreigners in what was an early version of chattel slavery. before this, only a small percentage of the people in athens could actually vote. it was a direct democracy and the 'parliament' was occupied by citizens basically pulled out of a hat, but for most people, especially women, free or slave, this meant nothing. they could not input directly and they had no representative. women's status did not change after all natural born men were declared citizens, and remember that accounts for around half of all of the people chilling in athens, but also the new imported slaves, slavery growing to record sizes now, could not vote as they were not citizens and so suffrage was no more widespread than before.

additionally, many of the more famous ancient greeks could not vote because they were foreigners and did not own land. aristotle is a popular example. the wealth of artwork we perceive as ancient greek sophistication or whatever was in fact executed by foreigners who had no involvement in politics. the culture we so admire was very much independent of the political process we mistakenly glorify, i think.

so yeah, it was a direct democracy in athens but only if you really like ignoring the role of women, slaves, and foreigners... which is pretty typical tbh.

there ts submit that. source: my anus
i don't know why i feel so dry
#31
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Could you name me a specific book/books or text that makes a strong case against everything I said.

I mean an actual title, I like to learn more.

I gave you a specific instance in history. If you can't handle finding and comprehending the relevant information given that there is no wonder you make such insufferably dumb comments.
#32
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I gave you a specific instance in history. If you can't handle finding and comprehending the relevant information given that there is no wonder you make such insufferably dumb comments.



Why so bitter though?

And why wouldn't I ask for a good book? There are a lot of bad or biased books out there as well.

And I don't need your opinion on my intelligence. I know my intelligence better than you.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 9, 2014,
#33
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Why so bitter though?

And why wouldn't I ask for a good book? There are a lot of bad or biased books out there as well.

And I don't need your opinion on my intelligence. I know my intelligence more than you.


Just let the kid be, mate. you´re not going to get any normal responses from him. He´s trying to be the big bad troll.
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#34
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
Just let the kid be, mate. you´re not going to get any normal responses from him. He´s trying to be the big bad troll.



The possibility of gaining more perspective for free, with a combined total of about 30 minutes of my time to gamble with is worth it for me.

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