Ok, this is my first project in electronics, and WHAT A WHOPPER!

I want to take my 2 humbucker guitar , possibly replace the stock HBs with something like say this (and another related pickup that I'll find in my researching latter), and then add in the real customization.

By this, I mean taking 2 good humbuckers, and turning them into (if possible) 4 separate single coils (Yes indeed I would love this!) (the 59'/Custom hybrid are two GREAT single coils in 1 supposedly GREAT humbucker MEANT for the kind of customizing I'm going on about here), the standard neck position HB, the standard bridge position HB, 2 Outer SCs combined, 2 inner SCs combined, both "lower" (towards bridge) position SCs combined, both Both "Upper" (towards neck) Positions combined, (edited in later) OH! And of course the "classic" combo of both the "standard" humbuckers in both Neck and Bridge combined completely .
Is this even possible to have all in this 1 guitar considering the small back route for just the controls?

I've looked at a few parts, but I don't really know how many of what I'll need lol. As stated already, this is a HUGE project for a total electronics/soldering newb to tackle, but I'll have 2 weeks to get it right during my Christmas/New-Year's break from work at the factory.

I'm willing to bet, I'm going to need something like this switch to get all those combinations in 1 switch... or will I need a rotary switch? Will this involve a push/pull for my volume/tone knob(s)?

I mean this is looking to be 11 options here, more if we get into parallel/series... lol. And we only have the option for switching out the Volume knob, Tone knob, and of course the switch. I don't want to route. This was a gift to me, and I don't want to touch the wood of this guitar, just the electronics.

As long as the electronics fit, and are of solid quality... I don't care what brand or what shape too much. Except I know I want to try and keep it with that "Gibson" style "toggle" switch with black tip if possible, though I'm of course willing to go with options like a rotary switch as already mentioned if necessary.

As far as finish goes, black all the way for the outer hardware. Glossy Black.

Anyone able to help me figure this all out?

ATM, I plan on going on suggestions from another thread with my practicing soldering until I get "good enough" at it for this kind of thing heh. But this is what I ultimately want to do, so any help is good help as some say.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 17, 2014,

this thread has everything your going to need to know.

id like to help you more but what you have in mind is to complicated for me lol
can i ask why you want to do this? is there really a need to have every possilible pickup configuration?

i find the difference between having either both north or both south sides of the pickups to make a very minimal difference.

hopefully someone can help you more then me.
Very Orange CARVIN DC 700
PRS SE Custom - crunch lab&PAF pro
Ibanez GRX40 - modified
Peavey Valveking 112 w/ 2x12 cab

Originally Posted by Shirate
The guitar, the only beautiful female that looks better with the top ON haha

Well the bigest thing is just having the 3 humbucker settings, and having the bridge and neck "single coil" pickups via splitting or tapping ... whichever that would be lol.

But, if I get the 59' Custom hybrid... I will want to have use of both single coils from that single humbucker as both I bet would sound great, yet different from each other... You know? As one of the singles would be from the 59', and the other from their "Custom" pickup. Thus why I went with the selection ideas that I did.... then also being able to combine the "single coils" in various ways other than the "standard humbucker" configs would be nice.

I like both types of tone, but only have 2 slots here, so if I could take 2 humbuckers, split them into 4 singles, use all 4 single coils, and combine them differently, while also having access to the standard humbucker configurations as well, I'd have every tone I'd ever need so to speak, in this one guitar instead of having to buy multiple guitars... plus this would be a hell of a project to kick start me into soldering. No? Or would this be WAY too advanced for a newb? I mean it all basicly sounds like just follow the map so to speak... Especially in that I think the company that makes that super switch, as well as the one that makes the rotary switch, both will make a schematic for you if you contact them... I think.

On watching some youtube vids... It now sounds like I don't need coil-tapping. Which is great news... Humbucker's "single coil" parts don't come with the tap wire do they? (even the 59'/Custom Hybrid, right?)

So basically I just want to split this into 4 separate SCs that I can select individually and then combine them back in the ways described in the original post... so that I have all four Single Coils and the various ways they can be combined (2 outer, 2 inner, both "bottoms", Both "Tops" for 4 total SC combos on top of the 4 SCs themselves for a grand total of 8 SC options), then have the 3 humbucker options of neck, bridge, and combo. So that gives me a total of 11 total options, without anything exotic like in/out of phase, parallel, in-series, etc...)

Is this doable without modifying the guitar itself as far as routing and etc.?

I'm a total noob here, but I would think putting in a single Push Pull pot in the "volume slot" (if you will), and using the "pushed-in" state for the humbuckers, and the "pulled-out" state for the splitting into single coils. Then I'd have a rotary switch replace the toggle, or use that super toggle type I mentioned in the OP, either way I get 6 positions available per push/pull, which would ultimately give me 12 positions total... 1 of which might not get used though I bet I could figure out something lol. I'd probably use the push state to give me the 3 humbucker positions plus both "top" SCs, and both "bottom" SCs . Then use the Pulled state to get the 4 separate SC selections, and then the options for the 2 outer and 2 inner SCs.

This would allow me to have my usual 3 humbucker options, and 2 "unusual" single coil selections, allowing a cool combination of selections heh, then when pulled out I'd get 4 SCs and the "usual" combinations for single coils.

Then again, you don't usually have 4 single coils lol, so it would be quite unusual here all-round, eh?


As far as the switch, no matter the type (rotary or toggle), it sounds like I need a 4 common, 6 throw? Like this , or even more terminals with this?

Then again, I'm wondering if this kind of wiring solution is even possible? I mean am I reaching too far out there, and going beyond what a 6 position switch is capable of? I mean would I have to just keep my vol and tone pots as they are and try and find a 12 position rotary or toggle? lol. I'm a bit confuzeled here.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 17, 2014,
these are the ones off the top of my head

a seymour duncan triple shot set and at least one push pull potentiometer I'd invest in myself to try a majority of this stuff I'm going to tell you.

active preamps many companies make - seymour duncan blackout modular, EMG Afterburner , Artech has a bunch out. heard about this cool one that makes guitars sound like a wah pedal.

the fender jazz mod - you add a capacitor to a push pull and it gives you this completely rolled off tone sort of sound. Some guys go crazy and add super large tone capacitors. A good idea of what this would be is like the 1953 fender telecaster wiring in the neck position it goes super bassy. Too bad the Seymour duncan wiring for it is wrong.

the varitone mod - it's a difficult mod to wire but you get 5 unique extra tones out of the guitar per pickup selection. You'd need a 6 contact 2 pole rotary switch like PRS guitars and a bunch of different sized capacitors. They all filter out a different % of output of the guitar giving unique tones. You can use different capacitor materials and so forth as well.

with mini toggles you could adjust the brightness or darkness of the guitar with a resistor. This mod is very uncommon as most guitarists I bump into don't know what a resistor is.

the kinman treble bleed mod - a smoother 10-1 when decreasing volume great for practicing in apartments

killswitches you can add - momentary on/on switches. There is a kind where you don't have wood to route

out of phase mod - switch a ground and hot lead wire on ONE of two pickups. You get this quack like tone. Ethan Brosh did this song called clean slate and it's pretty much the tone you get going out of phase. It only affects a position between two pickups.

series / parallel wiring - provides you with a hum cancelling coiltap so a single coil tone out of a 4 wire humbucker without the buzz

telecaster powerboost style mod aka the "megabucker" - google this one

fender greasebucket mod - boosts the bass in a guitar. I recommend this over tone knobs if the guitar has very high output pickups with too much treble when you put the gain past 4.

fender tbx mod - its a blend knob that cuts bass (adds clarity) or you roll off the tone like a normal tone knob. Best to keep this at 5 for an unaltered tone.

coilsplits - regular kind where you pull up on a push pull to make humbuckers sound like single coils is the tone you get .. the other time you see this is, is with the not very much mentioned "spin a split" variant (seymour duncan has the diagram) pretty much you drop the output of the pickup as much as you want until it's a single coil sounding pickup.
series/parallel wiring

mid scoops come to mind
bigger tone capacitors do that
.. I can go on forever.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Dec 17, 2014,
one possible idea I just read your needs after typing all the mods I could think of off the top of my head.

perhaps a coiltap for the volume - B500k push pull I recommend
for the tone knob - either it can also be a volume for that killswitch effect like zakk wylde uses or you can make the pickups go out of phase.

totally easy to wire and if you need help send me a private message this is an easy schematic to wire.
Thank you for the suggestions, but I think I've settled into what I want as per both of my posts so far. Basically just 3 humbucker positions, split the humbuckers into 4 separate Single Coils, and also combine those 4 SCs into 4 combos, 2 inner, 2 outer, both tops and then both bottoms. This gives me 11 total positions.

(Apologies if I was misleading in how I worded things)

I'm mainly now curious if this is possible with just replacing my volume pot for a push pull volume pot, and using the two separate circuits leading to a new 6 position switch (rotary or toggle) to get all 11 selections, leaving 1 position open for a future idea?

This is what I meant by a newb needs help with "all the possibilities".

And as for why I would want to split them into 4 separate single coils, the 59'/Custom hybrid pickups are actually 2 separate pickups that were joined... the Seymour Duncan 59' humbucker, and the Seymour Duncan "Custom" humbucker. They took the Top out of the Custom and the bottom out of the 59', and created this "mega-bucker" as I call it lol. I know the vid uses post processing in huge amounts for the most part, but I still love that sound. And definitely want to split these 'buckers... I might just get both the bridge and neck variations on this, but for now I'm thinking of researching on something else for the neck atm... but I know I definitely want this for the bridge heh. Probably going to see if there are any other "hybrid" humbuckers out there by SD or any other manufacturer.

Then again, SD recommends using the Custom Single Coil from splitting the two for the "full sound" so to speak. So I'm now beginning to wonder if I even should be thinking of using that 59' single Coil at all? I wonder how it would sound... And this would take out some of the positions... which would I think leave me with 3 humbucker positions, 2 Single Coils separate, and the two SCs combined for a single position, so 8 positions total... which makes wiring simpler. Lol.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 17, 2014,
you remind me of myself. This is going to be fun. For the sake of conversation if you mod a les paul next try the jimmy page wiring. It does 20 tones. The varitone is another great addition to any guitar wiring as well. Adds 5 additional tones to every selection.

a bit of a lesson first
As some of us on here know. There is two parts in a humbucker. North and south. Each of them have a ground (current flows out) and a hot lead (current flows in). That being said a north start and north finish = one coil
south start and south finish = another coil

so you need
two blend knobs or concentric potentiometers are ideal if you want a volume control
B500k / B500k in resistance for the pots to appreciate the pickups as much as possible
your selector and all are fine
don't forget to copper shield the guitar while you're at it for more clarity. It reduces EMI.

blend vs concentric
blend is one potentiometer with 6 contacts like a stacked volume pot. Traditionally one half is wired one way and one half the other way. So 10 would be say one guitar pickup and 0 would be the other on a 1950 fender broadcaster for example or predominantly on bass guitars they use blend pots. As we know we're going a step further and meeting your wiring needs.

this one is easier to explain it's two potentiometers stacked. One big volume knob at the base of the knob that you see on the outside and one smaller one. If you've seen or googled a Boss metal zone MT-2 you'll see what these look like pretty easily. Again you want a 500k / 500k potentiometer. Anything above 500k will be slightly brighter or anything below 500k will be darker is rule of thumb with humbuckers. There are mixed kinds which is why I'm accentuating on this like 250k / 500k. So make sure both are 500k / 500k. Brightest pots are 2M (2000k) I've seen and darkest for guitars is 25k (for actives), however 1k exists.

wiring with either specialized potentiometer, blend
solder the ground wire of the pickup to the base of the potentiometer
on the top half of the row of contacts get the north start and finish - right contact
the top half still of that row of contacts for wiper (middle) solder it to the bottom one
the bottom half of the contacts the south start and south finish wire - left contact
on the bottom half of the contacts solder the other wire to wiper and wiper to the pickup selector where the bridge or neck pickup is
and repeat
remember to ground one to the other and then ground goes to sleeve. Don't forget the bridge ground as well.
for concentric potentiometers north start / north finish and south start / finish are both on the say left side. this gives you a volume control. But these are expensive pots.

so what does this do
100% = coil #1
50% = both coils of a humbucker
0% = coil #2
the pro to this is you can add a little bit of each coil to custom tailor your tone
the con - the pickups will buzz when isolating the coils and no volume control unless you go concentric.
and total bragging rights if you have the pickups out of phase in the middle for a 12th and beyond tone.

edit 2
you'll need to drill a 3rd potentiometer to this guitar to add a volume control if you don't go the concentric route

in theory after an all nighter...
the hot lead coming from the selector would go to the "signal in" (hot lead)
the other half would be going out the other side "Signal out" - to your input jacks "tip" (hot lead or signal in)
remember to ground the pot and then bring the ground to the sleeve (signal out / ground).

one idea for wiring in the future, The jimmy page wiring on steroids.

anyways.. any out of the box wiring questions send me a private message on here. I've been doing this for 5 or so years and guitar electronics aren't hard.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Dec 17, 2014,
I can't wait to read all this when I get home tonight, thanks for the help. (Gotta rush out just as I see this lol, work and all that).

I opened the back plate last night, and saw something that confounded me... the lead coming off of the input makes it's first contact with the grounding of the volume pot, that is it is soldered first to the back of the volume pot... and then a bare ground goes off to the usual tab, and I think (I still have to snip the plastic tie and do a proper mapping tonight sometime) that it continues it's normal journey from there (That is, in addition to making contact with the grounding first, and having the ground go off to the "top" tab, it also then moves to one or two of the 2 remaining tabs... I think only 1 don't remember atm.... probably 1 as 2 wouldn't make sense electrically speaking)... is this normal and good? And like I said I will get a good map of it made tonight, well good enough lol... will be working with photos and MSPaint I think... Will be an interesting night indeed!

And remember, no routing is possible here, one I don't have the money for those kinds of tools in addition to the soldering tools, pickups, and electronics lol... not to mention I don't want to "mar" my baby ... (Me and woodworking never did get along too well lol)
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 17, 2014,
with blend or concentric knobs you shouldn't have to but ask the customer support for the dimensions and compare to what you have is my best advice.

so with 2 or 4 wire pickups in traditional wiring it's always the pickups grounded to the backs of the volume pots. This custom wiring would still do that but the rest would be tricky. I'm kind of busy the next few days or I'd draw this out by hand what would happen. But for sure you'd need 4 wire pickups to make this happen. 2 wire pickups are pretty much just "in" and "out" until you take the tape off of a pickup. This is risky though and I don't recommend it.

you might be able to use one blend pot for both pickups and have a volume knob. But lets see if anyone else can suggest an alternative as I really had to scratch my head to make that happen.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Dec 17, 2014,
Now after getting home and getting some sleep:

Personally speaking, I don't strictly HAVE to have a blend knob, but if I did I'd go concentric... Especially if I could find something that looked a little nicer than those MT-2 knobs, as I have black nickel knobs atm that are just right looking in my opinion. Anything like that exist for concentric? Something about the size of the current knobs?

As far as that lead coming off of my input jack, are you saying that that always goes to the volume pot's grounding first?

I can take some photos (won't be awesome, but will suffice I think), in fact am about to do so when I exit this edit of the post!

That way we can REALLY get a look at what is there and if I can improve it at all on my own before going whole hog on pickup replacement and a totally new wiring and schematic lol.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 18, 2014,
yeah there will be much nicer guitar ones out there. Got my point across easy is why I mentioned it. Ir shouldn't be too hard to get the right knobs. This is something I used to see on ebay a lot when considering guitar projects.

the diagram I'm tempted to draw out on paper as I've got a really nice camera and can get away with it. I'd totally ask for a second opinion on seymour duncan forum or email their customer support the wiring experts were very helpful when I was getting into this. This ones theory what I'm doing I'm sure it'll work but assurance doesn't hurt.

Since you're using concentric and not blend knobs the wiring changes a little bit compared to my first diagram slightly. It makes it more comfortable to play the guitar too in a different perspective. Less confusion if you were on stage with the guitar.

so the perspective we're looking at is as if the potentiometer is upside down the metal base is what you see first and pretending the knob is still inside the guitar.
hot lead / signal in = the one on the left
wiper - controls the % of the potentiometer - middle
ground / signal out = the one on the right
use the seymour duncan color code on "guitarelectronics.com"

start off by soldering the ground wire of your pickup to the back of the volume pot. Only solder the ground of the pickup that you want to manipulate. Not both.

lets start with the volume potentiometers Think of it as if you're wiring 4 les paul volumes. to get my point across easiest without tone knobs.
top row
hot lead - north start / north finish
wiper - to the hot lead of your selector - solder it individually with the bottom row
ground (signal out) goes to the base of the volume pot where the bead of solder is
bottom row
hot lead - south start / south finish
wiper - hot lead to the selector in same position as the top row is going to.
ground - solder to the base of the volume pot again
and repeat for the other pickup and concentric knob

ground wires
solder the internal ground wire that comes from the inside of the guitar to at least one volume pot. Connect a ground wire one volume potentiometer to the other and then out to the sleeve of the input jack. Don't forget about the ground wire from the selector switch.

the hot leads
ok so after the pickups hot leads are in. Two wires for each set of contacts so you get complete control you want to have the wire between the two contacts the 3 way has going out to the "tip" which is the hot lead on the input jack.

final tips
want to have assurance the wiring works?
tap the pickup(s) with a screwdriver. If it's in a coiltapped form you'll hear a tap on the amplifier with a normal amount of volume and distortion. This sounds significantly different for coiltaps then full powered humbuckers. Coiltaps are quiet because there is less resistance.

and like I said before total bragging rights and you'll have more than 15-ish tones if you find ways to make the guitar pickups go out of phase without putting a guitar pickup in backwards like blues guitar legend Gary Moore. The best idea for the out of phase tone is "clean slate" by ethan brosh.

with the selector and input jacks some quick tips
the 3 way toggle selector like les pauls are very easy to work with besides all the soldering tips.

with the 3 way toggle selector
there is 4 contacts
the side with three contacts = the ones on the outside are for the pickups
so we're left with two. These are "commons" - as in ground is one, hot lead is the other. It's unconditional. You don't need them to be specifically ground or hot lead. It's your harness.. go nuts.

with the input jack
there is two contacts
the sleeve when it makes its way to hole in the bottom it stays metal like a sleeve - this is ground
the "tip" you'll know right away because when the contact gets neat the bottom and joins the rest of the input jack it has plastic.
a seymour duncan diagram will help you out with the differentiation between the two better.

so ..as dumb as it sounds my abbreviated way to remember it is thinking of "Gibson SG" guitars as as .. sleeve , ground. Dumb or nerdy but it works.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Dec 18, 2014,
Here's some pix of what things currently look like inside for better references. They can be blurry, but it's the best I could do with my webcam at 8 megapixels/720p widescreen and manual focus .

All shots taken from the back with the head-stock facing screen left.

Here's the over-all shot:

Here's the volume pot, read for it's closeups Mr. DeVille:

Here's the 3-Way Switch:

From the Right-ish:

From the top:

And here's the tone pot, and one heck of a nice close-up might I add!:

All of this is what I want to change out for better if better exists heh, and indeed it does I'm sure. That volume pot would become the concentric (does a push pull variant of this exist? will google after this post lol), the switch would potentially be replaced by the new super-switch I've been talking about, and the tone pot might stay, but if better exists I'd go with that too.

Though is there anything that I can muck with here to better what I have currently before swapping anything out in the next week or two?

How does one tell the "good" alpha pots to the "bad" ones? As I've read a few reviews and they tend to say that there are good and bad pots from this manufacturer. Is there WAY better than Alpha? Or, are we just talking very subtle changes on "better" brands?
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 18, 2014,
Hold up! If I do this concentric mod, will I be able to do the entirety of this mod I want to do in using all 4 single coils from the Coil Split separately? Or is that even possible with just 2 pots and a switch? (no matter what type of either)

LOL, sometimes I can be slow to catch things like this...

I mean I love the idea of blending two pickups, but how many and of what combos could I actually get if I do this mod with concentric pots and that 28 terminal, 6 position switch? (if it fits, I gotta get a measuring tape today and a feeler gauge<(for string height adjustment of course).

Looking at the pdf that they provide for theFree-Way Ultra , they have 6 positions available for a 2 volume to tone setup...

I'm curious if there is a way to have 2 circuits that lead to the switch, for the configuration I already have talked about (3HB positions and 2 SC combos, then on the other circuit we get the 4 separate SCs via coil splitting and the remaining two combos), possibly utilizing the concentric pots (CTS?)

And this is all just guessing that the switch fits my control cavity. I need to get the measurements tonight. I'm going to Lowes in a bit to get a few things, so I'll pick up a measuring tool of some sort... might just get the digi-caliper type measuring tool if they have one... for not much.

A double-pull double-throw switch is just a push-pull pot right? In our situation that is... I'm looking at that pdf and they show an "option DP DT switch" on a tone pot, I'm guessing that's the push/pull variant of the pot right?

I'm now thinking of this configuration for the control electronics:

Free-way Ultra for the switch

Concentric Volume Pot

Push/Pull Tone Pot.

Will this work for this set of configs?
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 20, 2014,
So concentric push pulls don't exist. I'd love for them to be haha. But pretty much with two of them you'd be able to split either coil in the humbucker giving you 3 sounds.

by the looks of it the regular LTD parts. The selector and input jack could stay for this schematic to work. Just the volume and tone pot are going.

lets assume both knobs on the concentric are at 100% = full humbucker
turn the bottom knob on a concentric to 0% (lets say) and only one coil would be on
you'd be able to turn knob to any volume you want. Makes sense right?

by turning one coil completely off it's considered a coiltap. Accentuating on just the other coil I doubt it's considered a parallel wiring but it's a 3rd sound out of a pickup.

for the electronics
I've heard of super 3 way selectors or something like it stewmac offers. But a regular 3 way selector works just fine for this wiring to work.

If the pickups you've got are 4 wire pickups currently you can try out a prototype of this wiring. Put just the north start and finish to a hot lead on a selector and make sure to ground both pots and see how it goes. I should add you on facebook so I can send images haha. I'm terrible at this site.

for a push pull though and a selector or super 5 way selector with 25 contacts the world can be yours but lets see what we can do without it before it.
yea, and that's a 6 way selector btw .

Free-Way Ultra Switch

The bottom of the 3 shown is what I'm on about.

But if it's possible to keep my current switch for now and just use concentric pots, then LOL let's look at that...

The only consequence of this would be the loss of a tone control. That's part of the reason I was looking at the 6 way super toggle, heh.

BTW, what do you use on your projects for pots, Alpha, CTS, or another?

I myself like the descriptions of the Emerson Pro CTS Pots, but it looks like they didn't make concentric pots for that line-up, only for the standard CTS pots, unless I'm wrong? I gotta look at CTS's main site tonight if I can find it heh.

I don't like that a lot of people are saying that the CTS concentric pots start abruptly and aren't a smooth transition from "off" (0) to 1 and beyond... is this true? I'm used to the apparent Alpha that's my volume knob (I guess, doesn't say on it)... the tone knob though is a bit abrupt lol... then again it's the one with the Alpha stamp on it... which is funny.

But anyways, yea what do you think about CTS for concentric? Is there better for what we want to do here?

And thanks for clearing up what you were on about with the 2 concentric pots... Now I get it. We'd have all 4 wired up separately and could just roll on what I need heh, or off of what I don't.

BTW: In this configuration, would the knobs be working as "volume" knobs? I'm guessing yes. The more "volume" you bring in, the more signal you're bringing in right? Sorry if this sounds stupid lol, I'm not a wiring expert like you, this is my first job outside simple things like putting up a fan/light combo and the electrical outlets. Heh. I mean, I did attempt to repair an old headset I broke, and it worked until the (what I now know to be a ) cold connection broke. Yea, lol. This is light-years (so to speak) beyond that.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 20, 2014,
Ok, well... Christmas Eve brought all sorts of goodies for me. I got all the tools I needed, pots, and of course, pickups! I got the 59'/Custom Hybrid for the bridge, and the Jazz for the neck. BEAUTIFUL tones once I got it wired up.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me


Last edited by Outside Octaves at Dec 27, 2014,