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#1
Or does 'muricah not know about it?

"ARMED men are holding up to 50 people hostage at a cafe in Martin Place in Sydney.
There are reports that two gunmen have taken hostages, some of which are standing with their hands up at the windows in the popular Lindt chocolate shop, which has two or three entrances. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag."


http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649
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#3
Why can't they ****ing behave.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#4
Stumbled into the thread where you and Cath were discussing it.

Humans can be pretty barbaric at times. Makes me sad.
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#6
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11293694/Islamists-take-hostages-in-Sydney-cafe-siege-live.html

One of the conservative UK papers are covering it now, the cynic in me is saying "What kind of spin can they put on this?" They're not Daily Mail bad though.
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#7
The coverage here has been hilariously bad.
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#8
This is scary my uncle works like a building over from that place.


I hope they get this sorted out without anyone getting hurt.
cat
#9
Quote by jambi_mantra
The coverage here has been hilariously bad.


you're not wrong. Sky News is the only reasonable one i've found. Channel 7's smart idea of a live feed on the window was flawless..
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#10
Quote by greeny23
you're not wrong. Sky News is the only reasonable one i've found. Channel 7's smart idea of a live feed on the window was flawless..


"The government has told the media to be careful with what they say and to not raise the alarm, but there is a guy with a gun, with Islamic flags that look like ISIL but aren't ISIL and a black headband on so it's quite clear this is a terrorist attack"

That was Channel 9's approach
No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable


@gossage91
@overtimefitnessau
#14
Quote by So-Cal
why don't they just snipe him

Human shields used to board up windows. No confirmation on how many shooters. Don't know what's in the bag

| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ
Last edited by Cianyx at Dec 14, 2014,
#17
Quote by Cianyx
Human shields used to board up windows. No confirmation on how many shooters. Don't know what's in the bag



Oh lawd. I'm going to hell.

OT: This is seriously ****ed up and I hope it all gets resolved without anyone dying.
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy

Quote by ErikLensherr

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
#18
@Cianyx - that last person has some serious Stockholm Syndrome, and I just saw Tony Abbot on the TV and wanted to punch him.

Oh! Some people just got out, and one of them flailed his arms in a somewhat homosexual manner when he reached the police

EDIT: they can't snipe because there may be multiple gunmen.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
Last edited by Pastafarian96 at Dec 15, 2014,
#20
Also a 'suspicious package' has been found at the Sydney Opera House
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#21
Quote by Pastafarian96
Also a 'suspicious package' has been found at the Sydney Opera House


that was this morning and the dismissed it.
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#22
Quote by greeny23
that was this morning and the dismissed it.

Hehe, WIN didn't, god the situation is convoluted because of the media not being told anything, which is probably a good thing at this point.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#23
And America just got involved in our shit.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#24
Quote by Pastafarian96
And America just got involved in our shit.


We what?

Hope this ends peacefully...
Seattle Seahawks


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i feel like you have an obsession with aubrey plaza.


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at least we can all agree SGstriker is the woooooooooooooooooooooorst
#25
Yay religion
Quote by SlackerBabbath
My ideal woman would be a grossly overweight woman who would happy go jogging, come home all sweaty and let me put my dick under her armpit while she shuffles a pack of cards.

Stay classy, pit.
#26
this is not good
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#27
Quote by Pastafarian96
And America just got involved in our shit.

You're welcome
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#28
Quote by pugachev
#religionofpeace strikes again

"When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet. Thereafter there shall appear a feeble insignificant folk. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron. They will have the state. They will fulfil neither covenant nor agreement. They will call to the truth, but they will not be people of the truth. Their names will be parental attributions, and their aliases will be derived from towns. Their hair will be free-flowing like that of women. This situation will remain until they differ among themselves. Thereafter, God will bring forth the Truth through whomever He wills."

Ali bin Abi Taalib, 4th caliph of Islam, related a saying of the Prophet Muhammad during the 7th century foretelling the advent of hypocrites who should be disregarded in the latter days. They turned out to be violent jihadist movements.

I've bolded a certain line for emphasis.

Black flags? Check. Insignificant power? Check. Cold hearted? Check. Claims to be true Islam and a restored caliphate while simultaneously contradicting every principle of Islam? Check. Etc.

Another prophecy, which I can't be arsed to pull up from my phone, says that by the 20th century Islam will have declined so far that mosques will be full of people but devoid of guidance, the Quran will be read but not understood, and the people who call themselves Muslims will be among the worst creations of God to ever walk the earth. He said there would be three bright days, which corresponded to the first three centuries of the Islamic golden age, and ten dark nights, which were the thousand following years of corruption in the Muslim world. Where it lands is the 1900s, where Islamic radicalism first took its roots.

This is Muhammad saying these things. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that somewhere down the line your teachings will fall apart and be misused, the same thing has happened with every major religion.

The point I'm trying to make here is that anyone who's literate and has access to a wealth of information can clearly see that these terrorists, these radical groups, etc, are "not the people of the truth" and are definitely "among the worst creations of God to ever walk the earth".

When the founder of Islam is saying that about people who are claiming to be Muslims, can you really call those people Muslims? You believe they are because they say they are and you don't know any better, and because a bunch of other people who don't know any better say they are, but everyone seems to gloss over the possibility that maybe these guys don't know any better either.

You make your comment thinking that you're funny, that there's some irony in a religion that claims to be peaceful being the cause of so much destruction, but nobody ever really considers the possibility that, maybe, just maybe, radical Islamic jihadist groups aren't actually Muslims at all.

The fact that so many people are willing to accept the idea that a terrorist's interpretation of Islam is the correct interpretation of Islam says something about people. I'm not quite sure what it is, but the fact that maybe you and ISIS have about the same level of understanding of Islam fits in there somewhere.
#29
maybe if everyone stopped being religious we wouldn't have all these god damn stupid extremists

(tipping intensifies)
#30
Quote by So-Cal
maybe if everyone stopped being religious we wouldn't have all these god damn stupid extremists

(tipping intensifies)


But then wouldn't there be people trying to show how extremely non-religious they are?

I don't think Religion is the deciding factor here, shit people are.
Come back if you want to
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And everything must pass
#31
I don't think it could just be chalked up to "shit people". Islam in itself might not be so bad and there seems to be millions who are able to follow it without killing anyone in the name of God, but at the same time it's a religion that's given infinite amounts of credibility, and religious leaders are practically deified. This obviously leads to situations where an angsty 15 year old who could get over his shit by listening to some metal and growing his hair is manipulated, through religion, into carrying a rifle in a paramilitary group.


So maybe stop defending the Quran whenever Islamists do this shit and start acknowledging that this is a problem to do with Islam. Especially at a time when a bunch of people are still under gun point from an Islamist.
#32
i don't know, man

i think you might be right, but i don't think religion is helping
#33
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I don't think it could just be chalked up to "shit people". Islam in itself might not be so bad and there seems to be millions who are able to follow it without killing anyone in the name of God, but at the same time it's a religion that's given infinite amounts of credibility, and religious leaders are practically deified. This obviously leads to situations where an angsty 15 year old who could get over his shit by listening to some metal and growing his hair is manipulated, through religion, into carrying a rifle in a paramilitary group.


So maybe stop defending the Quran whenever Islamists do this shit and start acknowledging that this is a problem to do with Islam. Especially at a time when a bunch of people are still under gun point from an Islamist.


I think you'll find that's a common concept in many religions.......

Who said anything about defending the Qur'an? And I don't see how it is a problem to do squarely with Islam. There are many Islamic figureheads and leaders who have come out and condemned the shit out of people like this. There are bad Muslims, just as there are bad Christians, Bhuddists, Sikhs and what have you.
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#34
Quote by i_lovemetallica
I think you'll find that's a common concept in many religions.......

Who said anything about defending the Qur'an? And I don't see how it is a problem to do squarely with Islam. There are many Islamic figureheads and leaders who have come out and condemned the shit out of people like this. There are bad Muslims, just as there are bad Christians, Bhuddists, Sikhs and what have you.

I meant religious leaders are deified to the point where they could casually ask followers to pick up a gun and go jihad for God in Syria or the US or Australia.

Cuz whenever Muslims are like "Islam isn't as bad as people make it out" they're talking about Islam as defined by the Quran, not through Hadiths and what not.


I actually think Islam, within the Quran, is a terrible, misogynistic, homophobic religion that allows violence against innocents (beating your wife, killing gay people, killing Muslims who decide to leave Islam - all of this is part of the fundamental text of the religion) but I think Muslims are ones who are capable of ignoring stuff like this and bettering the religion.

Defending it whenever someone simply hints that it's not all that peaceful right now is not bettering it. I understand that it can improve, I understand that it wasn't bad in the past. But right now, it's awful.
#35
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I meant religious leaders are deified to the point where they could casually ask followers to pick up a gun and go jihad for God in Syria or the US or Australia.

Cuz whenever Muslims are like "Islam isn't as bad as people make it out" they're talking about Islam as defined by the Quran, not through Hadiths and what not.


I actually think Islam, within the Quran, is a terrible, misogynistic, homophobic religion that allows violence against innocents (beating your wife, killing gay people, killing Muslims who decide to leave Islam - all of this is part of the fundamental text of the religion) but I think Muslims are ones who are capable of ignoring stuff like this and bettering the religion.

Defending it whenever someone simply hints that it's not all that peaceful right now is not bettering it. I understand that it can improve, I understand that it wasn't bad in the past. But right now, it's awful.


And the Holy Bible doesn't say those things? I'm not saying the Qur'an doesn't contain those things, but why get so up in arms about one thing when it also affects another?

Religious leaders get deified in many religions. That's how such historical events such as the Crusades began. A Religious leader makes a call to arms, which gets followed by the morally blind. It's nothing new, and it's definitely not unique to Islam.

By no means am I defending the actions of the people who are responsible for the events of today, and I would prefer to think of people that behave in this manner are, for want of a better term "Extremists", or to put it in slightly more colloquial terms, I prefer to think of them as the Westboro Baptist Church of Islam. They exist within a certain religion, but they are not representative of the religion.
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#36
I know someone here made the "terrorists misinterpret the quran" arguement, so let me point out:

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who
reject faith, I will punish them with
terrible agony in this world and in
the Hereafter, nor will they have
anyone to help

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into
the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort
the believers to fight..."

I could copy-paste dozens of those, but you get the picture. There is no room for misinterpretation. It is made crystal clear. The Quran demands warfare against non-muslims, in a very straightforward way. The majority of muslims, who are peaceful, choose to ignore these instructions for conveniance, in the same way most christians ignore the "no mixed fabrics" rule out of conveniance, and come up with some bullshit excuse to cover that.
#37
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I meant religious leaders are deified to the point where they could casually ask followers to pick up a gun and go jihad for God in Syria or the US or Australia.

Cuz whenever Muslims are like "Islam isn't as bad as people make it out" they're talking about Islam as defined by the Quran, not through Hadiths and what not.


I actually think Islam, within the Quran, is a terrible, misogynistic, homophobic religion that allows violence against innocents (beating your wife, killing gay people, killing Muslims who decide to leave Islam - all of this is part of the fundamental text of the religion) but I think Muslims are ones who are capable of ignoring stuff like this and bettering the religion.

Defending it whenever someone simply hints that it's not all that peaceful right now is not bettering it. I understand that it can improve, I understand that it wasn't bad in the past. But right now, it's awful.

Keep in mind though that the Quran is the absolute authority on what Islam is, and in cases where the hadith and Quran contradict each other, the hadith must be stricken down and the Quran must be followed. Hadith are susceptible to hearsay, corruption, etc. Or misinterpretation from lack of context, which is especially applicable in the case of sunnah. Muhammad placed the Quran as the first priority on what Islam is for a reason. Tons of hadith/sunnah have been proven to be unreliable or just flat out wrong but are still followed because people are told to.

For instance, Muslims in the middle east stone women to death for adultery, etc. They do it because they claim that it was what Muhammad did. They're not wrong - it did happen at least once under Muhammad's rule. But at the time there was no Islamic law regarding a situation like that, so mosaic law was followed because Judaism was the last religion to make an explicit ruling on the matter. The story goes, should you choose to believe it, that stoning people as a form of punishment was abolished once Muhammad supposedly received new law on the matter. That doesn't matter to anyone who's angry enough to throw rocks at someone, though. They're just gonna say that they're following example.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here, for the most part, because there's definitely some parts of Islam that I'm not comfortable with. But none of it is exclusive to Islam, it's all just standard fare for Abrahamic religions. None of which are under fire these days because the rest of them have already gone through their corruptions and violent stages and subsequent cool down phases.

But your last paragraph makes no sense. It would be better applied to the Muslim ummah rather than Islam itself. If Islam is the Quran, and the only thing about the Quran that's changed is its interpretations, then the religion at its core hasn't really changed, has it? It's either always been good, or it's always been awful, or it's always just been what it's always been. But the only thing that's changed are the people.
#38
Quote by GFraser
I know someone here made the "terrorists misinterpret the quran" arguement, so let me point out:

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who
reject faith, I will punish them with
terrible agony in this world and in
the Hereafter, nor will they have
anyone to help

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into
the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort
the believers to fight..."

I could copy-paste dozens of those, but you get the picture. There is no room for misinterpretation. It is made crystal clear. The Quran demands warfare against non-Muslims, in a very straightforward way. The majority of Muslims, who are peaceful, choose to ignore these instructions for convenience, in the same way most Christians ignore the "no mixed fabrics" rule out of convenience, and come up with some bullshit excuse to cover that.


Deuteronomy 13:6
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery

I could copy-paste dozens of those, but you get the picture. There is no room for misinterpretation. It is made crystal clear. The Bible demands warfare against non-Christians, in a very straightforward way. The majority of Christians, who are peaceful, choose to ignore these instructions for convenience, in the same way most Muslims ignore the some rules out of convenience.

Your argument is flawed my friend.......
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#39
Quote by GFraser
I know someone here made the "terrorists misinterpret the quran" arguement, so let me point out:

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who
reject faith, I will punish them with
terrible agony in this world and in
the Hereafter, nor will they have
anyone to help

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into
the hearts of those who disbelieve.
Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort
the believers to fight..."

I could copy-paste dozens of those, but you get the picture. There is no room for misinterpretation. It is made crystal clear. The Quran demands warfare against non-muslims, in a very straightforward way. The majority of muslims, who are peaceful, choose to ignore these instructions for conveniance, in the same way most christians ignore the "no mixed fabrics" rule out of conveniance, and come up with some bullshit excuse to cover that.

I'll come back tomorrow after my physics exam to respond to you, bring all the Fox news-tier rhetoric you can because I'm gonna have a field day.

What I will say right now before I go to bed is this:

the first passage you've lifted is a verse where God is speaking about his plans to deal with the disbelievers who crucified Jesus. God delivers punishment, not man, a point which is emphasized in numerous places in the Quran. This has nothing to do with Muslims fighting against nonbelievers.

You've misquoted your second citation. It's "and when thy Lord revealed to you the angels saying 'I am with you, so make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Smite them above the necks and smite off all finger tips'". It's also taken terribly out of context. This isn't a command from the Quran to kill nonbelievers indiscriminately. This particular section is retelling the events of a large battle in early Islam where the Muslims were being attacked by a Meccan army many times their size. Meccans were constantly attacking Muslims offensively, so Muslims had to fight defensively. The verse is a revelation from God saying "chill dudes I got your back just do your thing". It's literally a story, recounting history. It's not a declaration of war. It's not a command. It's history.

Your last quote comes from the same chapter and is literally dealing with the same scenario. Again, not a command, not a declaration of war, etc. Gabriel is telling Muhammad to rally his troops against the attacking Meccans despite the overwhelming odds because God is on his side. The story is meant to establish the divinity of the religion.

Seriously. The way you look at it, if I say "build an Ark" then religious people should instantly start building arks instead of realizing that this is a written record of past events and not the ten commandments themselves.

It's very easy to make something look bad when you don't look at all of it. Ali has valid criticisms, you're not even on Bill O'Reilly's level yet.

Come back with your dozens of examples, I'll be free all day after my exams.
#40
my friend related all these radical islamic groups to the economic conditions of those involved

Its like kids here in the USA join gangs and kill eachother because what else are they gonna do they have no future might as well get rich or die trying

Over there its kinda similar what else are kids gonna do besides roll around shoot shit cause it's cool, blow themselves up cause its cool
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