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#1
COPIED FROM A FACEBOOK POST. NOT MINE.

OPEN LETTER TO CLUB OWNERS:

1. Pay the musicians! Just like you have to make money to keep your venue running, bands have to make money to sustain themselves. There is equipment to pay for, fuel for the vehicles and oh yeah, they have to eat. I understand that you think all musicians are platinum selling and only play your esteemed venue on Tuesday nights for the fun of it, but the truth of the matter is that most musicians are hard working, dedicated, passionate and well-practiced individuals who are extremely focused on their futures and their craft. Playing Tuesday night's at the local bar/club for free just so you can sell more beer shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. And in any other profession it wouldn't be. Now, if you can't afford to pay the musicians something maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

2. If you are going to have live music at your venue, then do your part to promote it. Don't just leave it up to the bands. They have enough on their plates than to have to worry about doing all the promoting themselves with no help from you. Print some flyers. Post to your social networks. Put flyers with a list of upcoming shows on each table. Update your website on a regular basis. Ask your customers for their email address and in exchange you give them a one time discount on their purchase at your venue (i.e. drinks, food etc). You can then build up an email list that you can send out once a month with a list of upcoming shows. As each show gets closer you send out an email with that week's shows. Be proactive. Don't wait for the customers to visit your website to see who's playing. They won't. If an art gallery has a showing they don't leave it up to the artist to promote the show. The gallery promotes it. Musicians are artists, you are the gallery. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

3. Get a decent sound system. That means get some subwoofers, some monitors, a real mixing board and some actual mains. You see, the better the band sounds, the better the band plays. The better the band plays, the more fun the audience has. The more fun the audience has, the more drinks they buy. The more drinks they buy, the more money you make. And the the more money you make means you can pay the bands. If you don't want to get a better sound system, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

4. Get a real sound guy! This means someone who actually knows how to run a sound board. Someone that knows what impedance and ohms mean. Someone that doesn't double as the bartender but actually knows how to run a 32 channel board. This means hiring a dedicated sound engineer because YOU know how important it is for the band to sound good (see #3). If you don't want to pay for a dedicated sound engineer, then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

5. Invest in some lights. No band wants to walk onstage and perform while your house lights are still on. Make it feel like a music venue. Not like the band just walked in from the street and are playing some bedroom somewhere. If you show the music respect then the bands and the fans will show your venue respect. If you don't want to invest in lights, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

6. For God Sakes, turn off the TVs while the band is performing. There is nothing more disrespectful to a band than to see a bunch of people watching TV while they are performing. It doesn't matter who is onstage. If you have TVs on, people will invariably turn their gaze to the screen. The local news or Duck Dynasty can wait. If you can't respect the bands or the music enough to turn the TVs off, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

7. Designate a dedicated merch area for the bands so they can display their merchandise in a professional manner. I'm pretty sure you can allocate a corner or wall where they can set up a table right? And please provide some lighting so people can actually see what the band is selling. All you need is a clip on light just above the merch table. Not only does it help the band but it shows you actually care. If you can't provide a merch area then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

8. Okay we know not all venues are big enough for a stage, but for those that are, build a proper stage for the band. That doesn't mean just throw some plywood on 2x4s and calling it a day. That means making sure that there are plenty of electrical outlets around the stage so everyone can plug their equipment in and not blow a circuit because now you have a 250 watt bass amp sharing the same circuit as the lighting and the subwoofers (that is if you've installed them). If you don't want to install or build a proper stage then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

9. Stop telling the band that playing your bar or club is good exposure for them and then turn around and tell them they have to bring 100 people. If it were good exposure for them then YOU would be providing the exposure not the band. So if you don't want tp pay the band then YOU provide the audience. That's only fair right? That means you promote, you advertise, you bring the crowd. Then the band can sell their merch and you wouldn't have to pay them because you provided the exposure. But that's not how it works is it? No it isn't. So how about if you are expecting them to bring the crowd so you can sell them alcohol, then you pay the band. No ifs. Ands. Or buts! How is the band bringing their fans providing good exposure for them? It's not. What it's actually doing is providing exposure for YOUR venue. You get free publicity out of the band and don't even give them a cut of the bar? Shame on you. If you can't stop taking advantage of musicians, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

10. Update your website with ALL the bands that are performing each show not just the headliners. It takes 30 seconds to update a website and list all the bands. This not only helps the fans of the opening bands know where their favorite band is playing but it makes the opening band feel like you actually give a damn about the music and the band. Also, a website consists of digital text. That means you can include as much text as you want on a page. That means you can include the bio of every band that is going to play your venue on your website. Websites aren't like print. You don't have to pay per word. This isn't 1846. If you can't update your website then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

11. Give the bands proper sound checks. That means letting them run through a song or two BEFORE the audience is in the venue. If you have to let the bands get to your venue a couple hours early then so be it. If it means that the sound is going to be better, then isn't that a good thing? You as a club owner should want only the best for your venue, bands and patrons. This is a great place to start. Yes we know your "sound engineer" doesn't want to get there early for soundcheck because he stayed out late partying with his buds, but that's his job and it's your job to make sure he shows up on time (see #4). If you can't give the bands a proper sound check, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

12. Stop treating touring bands like they just drove around the corner to get to your venue. Touring bands drive thousands of miles to get to your esteemed venue and most of the time you are not the first venue on their stop. That means they've been sitting in a van for hours upon hours and the last thing they need is attitude from venue employees who are disgruntled because they have to play a Tuesday night for a show that barely anyone will be at because you didn't bother to print flyers, update your website or social networks. Touring bands can only do so much promoting while on the road. Sure they can update social networks and websites from their smart phones but you are right there in town. You can tell everyone in your venue about the amazing band on tour that you've got coming to play your venue! Imagine how successful each show would be if that happened. If you can't stop giving the bands attitude, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

13. (this one is for the bands) Stop walking into the venue like you are the greatest musicians on the planet. You don't own the place and unless you're selling out the local arena, keep your attitude in check. You are a musician and your job is to play your music and entertain the audience. Yes, we understand that you are tired from your long drive, you are hungry, you're broke, you're mad because your girlfriend put too much starch in your jeans etc etc. but you are not God. Don't slam the venue's microphones onto the stage. If you want to do that bring your own. Don't smash their monitors if you can't pay to replace them. They aren't yours. Don't get wasted before a show. That's so cliched and this isn't the 70's. Stop being a stereotype of what people think musicians are. You are a creative individual. Act like it. Don't act like some spoiled little kid. Your audience deserves better. If you can't conduct yourself in a professional manner that the music and the fans deserve, then maybe you shouldn't be playing live music?

14. (Back to the club owners) If you have a marquee outside then list the bands (all of them) that will be playing that night. The show you have coming up in a month can wait. This is another way you as a club owner can help promote live music and make your venue a live music destination. Marquees are a great form of advertisement and most venues have them. Use them the way they should be used not just to advertise cold beer. If you can't update your marquee, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

15. End pay to play! Asking a band to sell 250 tickets to your venue on a Monday night and keeping 75% of the money is a disgrace and a slap in the face to the musicians. If you aren't going to stop pay to play then maybe you shouldn't host live music?
#6
if you're a musician living solely off money from gigs then you're an idiot and deserve to be starving
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#8
Go make this an article on the main page, cus no-one here really cares.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#9
You should feel privileged that they even let you play. You could easily be replaced by a stereo system.
Last edited by MeTallIcA313 at Dec 17, 2014,
#12
And when the club does all of this, and then no one turns up to see your shitty band play, and they go bust, you'll probably still blame them.
Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#16
Yeah I largely agree with it but what you doing posting it here sonny jim
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#17
Quote by Banjocal
Yeah I largely agree with it but what you doing posting it here sonny jim

For the upvotes ofcourse.... oh wait
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#18
Fuck it, I'll bite cos this sense of entitlement pisses me off somewhat
Quote by Voyevoda


1. Pay the musicians!

Prove to me you're capable of bringing in a crowd to my establishment. If you're not good enough to bring in a crowd, what am I paying you for? Music for an empty room? We have a jukebox for that.

Quote by Voyevoda

2. If you are going to have live music at your venue, then do your part to promote it. Don't just leave it up to the bands. They have enough on their plates than to have to worry about doing all the promoting themselves with no help from you. Print some flyers. Post to your social networks. Put flyers with a list of upcoming shows on each table. Update your website on a regular basis. Ask your customers for their email address and in exchange you give them a one time discount on their purchase at your venue (i.e. drinks, food etc). You can then build up an email list that you can send out once a month with a list of upcoming shows.

You're kidding right? Most venues are lucky to have computers that run Windows 95 let alone be capable of updating a website. Producing flyers is not the venues responsibility either. We'll stick em up somewhere if you have them though. And you want us to give away free drinks? For legal reasons (in Australia) you can't. Ask your customers their email address? Have you worked in a pub before knobhead? I'm sure all the other people waiting for a drink will love how you freaking ask everybody for their email address and write it down.


Quote by Voyevoda

4. Get a real sound guy!

Does that even matter? The sound guys usually know whats best but 99% of the time the bands fuck it up by turning their amps up way too loud thus destroying any chance of dynamic and decent sound.
Quote by Voyevoda

6. For God Sakes, turn off the TVs while the band is performing. There is nothing more disrespectful to a band than to see a bunch of people watching TV while they are performing. It doesn't matter who is onstage. If you have TVs on, people will invariably turn their gaze to the screen. The local news or Duck Dynasty can wait. If you can't respect the bands or the music enough to turn the TVs off, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

Not everyone is there to see your band play.

Quote by Voyevoda

You get free publicity out of the band

Gimme a break. Most likely 99% of patrons would never have heard of ya.

Quote by Voyevoda

10. Update your website with ALL the bands that are performing each show not just the headliners. It takes 30 seconds to update a website and list all the bands. This not only helps the fans of the opening bands know where their favorite band is playing but it makes the opening band feel like you actually give a damn about the music and the band. Also, a website consists of digital text. That means you can include as much text as you want on a page. That means you can include the bio of every band that is going to play your venue on your website. Websites aren't like print. You don't have to pay per word. This isn't 1846. If you can't update your website then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

You're assuming here that all bar managers are IT savvy and have the time for this. Trust me, its the least of our worries. Now excuse me but there's a junkie thats heading for our toilet that I've got to chuck out.
#19
Quote by Rebel Scum
Fuck it, I'll bite cos this sense of entitlement pisses me off somewhat

Prove to me you're capable of bringing in a crowd to my establishment. If you're not good enough to bring in a crowd, what am I paying you for? Music for an empty room? We have a jukebox for that.


You're kidding right? Most venues are lucky to have computers that run Windows 95 let alone be capable of updating a website. Producing flyers is not the venues responsibility either. We'll stick em up somewhere if you have them though. And you want us to give away free drinks? For legal reasons (in Australia) you can't. Ask your customers their email address? Have you worked in a pub before knobhead? I'm sure all the other people waiting for a drink will love how you freaking ask everybody for their email address and write it down.


Does that even matter? The sound guys usually know whats best but 99% of the time the bands fuck it up by turning their amps up way too loud thus destroying any chance of dynamic and decent sound.

Not everyone is there to see your band play.


Gimme a break. Most likely 99% of patrons would never have heard of ya.


You're assuming here that all bar managers are IT savvy and have the time for this. Trust me, its the least of our worries. Now excuse me but there's a junkie thats heading for our toilet that I've got to chuck out.

Having been born into a pub working family, everything here is true. You can't expect the establishment to really give a shit about you, you're just there as an extra means to make money most of the time
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#20
TS: If you can't accept the current climate of the entertainment business then maybe you shouldn't be hosting playing live music?

Quote by Rebel Scum

Not everyone is there to see your band play.

I agree with everything else you said, but I think this is just out of respect for the performer. Maybe not everyone's there to see the band, but really, don't screw over the performer by having distractions. Then you're asking for people not to pay attention, then notice them and heckle or throw shit or start fights. Really, it's just bad etiquette and if you're paying someone to be there, help them entertain, get your money's worth.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Dec 17, 2014,
#21
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
TS: If you can't accept the current climate of the entertainment business then maybe you shouldn't be hosting playing live music?


I agree with everything else you said, but I think this is just out of respect for the performer. Maybe not everyone's there to see the band, but really, don't screw over the performer by having distractions. Then you're asking for people not to pay attention, then notice them and heckle or throw shit or start fights. Really, it's just bad etiquette and if you're paying someone to be there, help them entertain, get your money's worth.

To clarify we do turn off the tv's near the stage. But for the tv's on the other end of the bar...why? A lot of times there's some sports on that people want to see when the band may be playing.
#22
Quote by Rebel Scum
To clarify we do turn off the tv's near the stage. But for the tv's on the other end of the bar...why? A lot of times there's some sports on that people want to see when the band may be playing.

I remember doing a gig in a pub as the bass player and whenever we finished a song, the guitarist and I would look at the cricket score. My point? Unless the band is in a room dedicated to live performance, you set up for regular patrons, never expect the whole crowd on that night to be there for the band, it rarely happens unless you've got renowned acts regularly.
A poem.
Quote by yoman297
no girl, movember isnt for you. shave your stache pls

I can out-bore you any day
#23
I agree with paying the musicians and not using 'exposure' as a reason to not pay a band. 'Pay to play' is a pretty underhanded practice and demeans the musicians, but the rest of this list is kinda BS man.

You expect the club to do promotion? To buy fancy lighting for you? To provide a stage? A sound engineer?

C'mon, really? That's just being a lazy musician. Go pick up a PA system and some cool lights, call the venue (or go there in person if possible) before your show and find out what they've got on hand, and make do. Need promotion? Print out your own damn flyers and deliver them to the venue before the show. They'll put them up.

Take some goddamn initiative. You're selling a product. If a bar is paying you, they're paying for a product. Expecting them to provide half the rig and to do your promotion for you is like McDs handing you a cold patty, an uncut bun, and some condiments in a baggy and telling you to make your own goddamn cheeseburger.

No wonder bands aren't respected/payed half the time...
#24
If you want to get paid, set it up with the owner in advance. Obviously they are only going to pay you if you bring people in (that's your job not the owners).

If you don't like the deal don't play there. Most bands look at free gigs as a way to get exposure. It takes a lot of exposure to build a fan base. Once you have a base and can bring people in then you have reason to discuss payment with the owner ahead of time.

All that other bullshit about proper equipment and sound guys is your problem. If you don't like the venues setup, don't play there. End of story
#25
Quote by mjones1992
I agree with paying the musicians and not using 'exposure' as a reason to not pay a band. 'Pay to play' is a pretty underhanded practice and demeans the musicians, but the rest of this list is kinda BS man.

You expect the club to do promotion? To buy fancy lighting for you? To provide a stage? A sound engineer?

C'mon, really? That's just being a lazy musician. Go pick up a PA system and some cool lights, call the venue (or go there in person if possible) before your show and find out what they've got on hand, and make do. Need promotion? Print out your own damn flyers and deliver them to the venue before the show. They'll put them up.

Take some goddamn initiative. You're selling a product. If a bar is paying you, they're paying for a product. Expecting them to provide half the rig and to do your promotion for you is like McDs handing you a cold patty, an uncut bun, and some condiments in a baggy and telling you to make your own goddamn cheeseburger.

No wonder bands aren't respected/payed half the time...



But the thing is that 90% of the time the bar doesn't pay you.


Quote by badfish_lewis
Obviously they are only going to pay you if you bring people in (that's your job not the owners).



That's a total load of bullshit.
Check out my band Disturbed
Last edited by StewieSwan at Dec 17, 2014,
#26
Quote by StewieSwan
But the thing is that 90% of the time the bar doesn't pay you.


Like I said: I agree with paying the musicians (P2P practices have got to go), but that's all that's needed.

Maybe have this list, but a big "OR" between 1-14 and 15.
#27
Quote by MinterMan22
lol who goes to clubs where bands play anymore?


I do because I'm the "equipment and transportation guy" for my friends band and they pay me gas, entrance and drinks when I go to one of their shows in a club or some shit. Free drinks mate.
#28
Quote by Voyevoda
COPIED FROM A FACEBOOK POST. NOT MINE.

OPEN LETTER TO CLUB OWNERS:

1. Pay the musicians! Just like you have to make money to keep your venue running, bands have to make money to sustain themselves.

Play at clubs that pay you then and stop whining

2. If you are going to have live music at your venue, then do your part to promote it. Don't just leave it up to the bands. They have enough on their plates than to have to worry about doing all the promoting themselves with no help from you. Print some flyers. Post to your social networks. Put flyers with a list of upcoming shows on each table. Update your website on a regular basis. Ask your customers for their email address and in exchange you give them a one time discount on their purchase at your venue (i.e. drinks, food etc).

Not their problem that only your mom and the 7 friends you forced to come show up. Also LOL cost the bar money so people can say no to seeing your shitty band

3. Get a decent sound system. That means get some subwoofers, some monitors, a real mixing board and some actual mains. You see, the better the band sounds, the better the band plays. The better the band plays, the more fun the audience has. The more fun the audience has, the more drinks they buy.

Again, if it works, it's good enough for them. Making you sound amazing so you can jerk off to your youtube recording of the gig isn't their problem.

4. Get a real sound guy! This means someone who actually knows how to run a sound board. Someone that knows what impedance and ohms mean. Someone that doesn't double as the bartender but actually knows how to run a 32 channel board. This means hiring a dedicated sound engineer because YOU know how important it is for the band to sound good (see #3). If you don't want to pay for a dedicated sound engineer, then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

Here's an idea. Bring your own if you don't like the fucking sound guy.

5. Invest in some lights. No band wants to walk onstage and perform while your house lights are still on. Make it feel like a music venue. Not like the band just walked in from the street and are playing some bedroom somewhere. If you show the music respect then the bands and the fans will show your venue respect. If you don't want to invest in lights, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

haha no. besides, why would we want to see your pimply face? It's doing you a service really.

6. For God Sakes, turn off the TVs while the band is performing. There is nothing more disrespectful to a band than to see a bunch of people watching TV while they are performing. It doesn't matter who is onstage. If you have TVs on, people will invariably turn their gaze to the screen. The local news or Duck Dynasty can wait. If you can't respect the bands or the music enough to turn the TVs off, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

If your band sucks, I don't want to miss the game.

7. Designate a dedicated merch area for the bands so they can display their merchandise in a professional manner. I'm pretty sure you can allocate a corner or wall where they can set up a table right? And please provide some lighting so people can actually see what the band is selling. All you need is a clip on light just above the merch table. Not only does it help the band but it shows you actually care. If you can't provide a merch area then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

hahahahahaha

8. Okay we know not all venues are big enough for a stage, but for those that are, build a proper stage for the band. That doesn't mean just throw some plywood on 2x4s and calling it a day. That means making sure that there are plenty of electrical outlets around the stage so everyone can plug their equipment in and not blow a circuit because now you have a 250 watt bass amp sharing the same circuit as the lighting and the subwoofers (that is if you've installed them). If you don't want to install or build a proper stage then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

hahahahahahahahahaa

9. Stop telling the band that playing your bar or club is good exposure for them and then turn around and tell them they have to bring 100 people. If it were good exposure for them then YOU would be providing the exposure not the band. So if you don't want tp pay the band then YOU provide the audience. That's only fair right? That means you promote, you advertise, you bring the crowd. Then the band can sell their merch and you wouldn't have to pay them because you provided the exposure. But that's not how it works is it? No it isn't. So how about if you are expecting them to bring the crowd so you can sell them alcohol, then you pay the band. No ifs. Ands. Or buts! How is the band bringing their fans providing good exposure for them? It's not. What it's actually doing is providing exposure for YOUR venue. You get free publicity out of the band and don't even give them a cut of the bar? Shame on you. If you can't stop taking advantage of musicians, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

Nobody wins if your shitty band scares away half the bar.

10. Update your website with ALL the bands that are performing each show not just the headliners. It takes 30 seconds to update a website and list all the bands. This not only helps the fans of the opening bands know where their favorite band is playing but it makes the opening band feel like you actually give a damn about the music and the band. Also, a website consists of digital text. That means you can include as much text as you want on a page. That means you can include the bio of every band that is going to play your venue on your website. Websites aren't like print. You don't have to pay per word. This isn't 1846. If you can't update your website then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

Walmart barely updates their stock and you expect some bar that was (most likely) forced to make a website to update often?

11. Give the bands proper sound checks. That means letting them run through a song or two BEFORE the audience is in the venue. If you have to let the bands get to your venue a couple hours early then so be it. If it means that the sound is going to be better, then isn't that a good thing? You as a club owner should want only the best for your venue, bands and patrons. This is a great place to start. Yes we know your "sound engineer" doesn't want to get there early for soundcheck because he stayed out late partying with his buds, but that's his job and it's your job to make sure he shows up on time (see #4). If you can't give the bands a proper sound check, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

Your playing at a fucking bar dude. Plug in, set levels, done.

12. Stop treating touring bands like they just drove around the corner to get to your venue. Touring bands drive thousands of miles to get to your esteemed venue and most of the time you are not the first venue on their stop. That means they've been sitting in a van for hours upon hours and the last thing they need is attitude from venue employees who are disgruntled because they have to play a Tuesday night for a show that barely anyone will be at because you didn't bother to print flyers, update your website or social networks. Touring bands can only do so much promoting while on the road. Sure they can update social networks and websites from their smart phones but you are right there in town. You can tell everyone in your venue about the amazing band on tour that you've got coming to play your venue! Imagine how successful each show would be if that happened. If you can't stop giving the bands attitude, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

hahahahahahahaa

13. (this one is for the bands) Stop walking into the venue like you are the greatest musicians on the planet. You don't own the place and unless you're selling out the local arena, keep your attitude in check. You are a musician and your job is to play your music and entertain the audience. Yes, we understand that you are tired from your long drive, you are hungry, you're broke, you're mad because your girlfriend put too much starch in your jeans etc etc. but you are not God. Don't slam the venue's microphones onto the stage. If you want to do that bring your own. Don't smash their monitors if you can't pay to replace them. They aren't yours. Don't get wasted before a show. That's so cliched and this isn't the 70's. Stop being a stereotype of what people think musicians are. You are a creative individual. Act like it. Don't act like some spoiled little kid. Your audience deserves better. If you can't conduct yourself in a professional manner that the music and the fans deserve, then maybe you shouldn't be playing live music?

yeah so stop bitching.

14. (Back to the club owners) If you have a marquee outside then list the bands (all of them) that will be playing that night. The show you have coming up in a month can wait. This is another way you as a club owner can help promote live music and make your venue a live music destination. Marquees are a great form of advertisement and most venues have them. Use them the way they should be used not just to advertise cold beer. If you can't update your marquee, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

Not if it sells out more than you.


15. End pay to play! Asking a band to sell 250 tickets to your venue on a Monday night and keeping 75% of the money is a disgrace and a slap in the face to the musicians. If you aren't going to stop pay to play then maybe you shouldn't host live music?

Or maybe you should find a new career path




Well then.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#29
Quote by StewieSwan
But the thing is that 90% of the time the bar doesn't pay you.


That's a total load of bullshit.


How is that bullshit. I've played many many gigs and some we got paid for, most we didn't. We always knew what we were going to get before hand. So if the owner said they weren't going to pay, we had a choice, play for free or don't play.
No one said being in a band was an easy way to make money. Don't like it? Good luck getting only paid gigs with a small fan base.
#30
I'm going to ignore the fact that this was copied from Facebook, which usually means it's erroneous and written by an uninformed amateur anyway, and instead I will point out two bullet points I disagree with.

Quote by Voyevoda
5. Invest in some lights. No band wants to walk onstage and perform while your house lights are still on. Make it feel like a music venue. Not like the band just walked in from the street and are playing some bedroom somewhere. If you show the music respect then the bands and the fans will show your venue respect. If you don't want to invest in lights, maybe you shouldn't host live music?

6. For God Sakes, turn off the TVs while the band is performing. There is nothing more disrespectful to a band than to see a bunch of people watching TV while they are performing. It doesn't matter who is onstage. If you have TVs on, people will invariably turn their gaze to the screen. The local news or Duck Dynasty can wait. If you can't respect the bands or the music enough to turn the TVs off, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?

Coming from someone who's been the guy on stage and the guy at the bar, I actually don't like it when bars make a night all about the band that's playing. Maybe it's because I'm a weirdo and I don't like people actually looking at me and focusing all of their attention on me when I play, or maybe it's because when I go to the bar, I want to go to the bar to drink and socialize without screaming at the person I'm conversing with. I prefer that a band try to be part of the atmosphere, rather than THE atmosphere. Don't turn fancy bright flashing lights on, don't turn off all the TVs, don't crank the music up so loud that the whole block can hear it. Playing at a bar/club/pub is not a concert and I don't think it should be treated as such.

Some venues are designed and equipped for live bands, some are not. If you're playing at the latter, you should be prepared to make some concessions, I think.
#31
I know I'll get the hate responses but after 40 years of playing in clubs and multiple long distance road gigs I have learned that this is strickly a business arrangement and as such you are offering a service. I think you are looking at this backwards. A bar/club is in business to sell drinks and food. The club owner does not care about promoting your band. He wants to promote his business. Most club owners think having live entertainment is nothing more than a major pain in the ass. They don't like having to do it but will if it means they can bring in more customers so they can sell more drinks and food. That is their bottom line. They are looking for the bands to bring in new faces. They are not there to present your band with an audience.

If you are lucky enough to play a place with any kind of PA system be thankful whatever it is. When did it become the clubs responsibility to provide you with a PA. It’s a rarity. If you don't like it, don't use it. If you want to insure your band will sound like you want to sound, get your own gear and a soundman that is familiar with your band and how you want the band to sound.

If you can't draw an audience it is probably because your band is not good or too loud or plays music few people want to hear. You may think your music is great but if no one comes out to hear it, it might be time to think about changes. Your ability to draw a crowd is up to you.

The bottom line is clubs/bars/restaurants are not in business to showcase your band or promote your music. You are simply providing a service to that club. If you provide good service (perform well and play good appropriate music for that club), you will get paid, make everyone happy, be booked often and become popular. Hurray (applause)!! If you play poorly, play stuff no one wants to hear (except a dozen of your close friends), you won't be asked back, you won't make any money and your band will still be playing in garage/basement. It’s your choice.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Dec 17, 2014,
#32
I've been playing clubs for years, and I also work in the music industry and am going to school to open my own business which will include a venue. Let's see how this goes.

Quote by Voyevoda

1. Pay the musicians! Just like you have to make money to keep your venue running, bands have to make money to sustain themselves. There is equipment to pay for, fuel for the vehicles and oh yeah, they have to eat. I understand that you think all musicians are platinum selling and only play your esteemed venue on Tuesday nights for the fun of it, but the truth of the matter is that most musicians are hard working, dedicated, passionate and well-practiced individuals who are extremely focused on their futures and their craft. Playing Tuesday night's at the local bar/club for free just so you can sell more beer shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. And in any other profession it wouldn't be. Now, if you can't afford to pay the musicians something maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?


That really, really depends on the band. As the band, you're an investment. Are you good enough to return on that investment? The simple idea of being 'a band' isn't some magic status. You're not deserving of pay. You're providing a product, and it has value. Remember, the venue isn't about the bands, it's about turning a profit for the venue owner. That person is trying to make money, have a living, feed their kids, wash their laundry, etc. just like you are.

Quote by Voyevoda

2. If you are going to have live music at your venue, then do your part to promote it. Don't just leave it up to the bands. They have enough on their plates than to have to worry about doing all the promoting themselves with no help from you. Print some flyers. Post to your social networks. Put flyers with a list of upcoming shows on each table. Update your website on a regular basis. Ask your customers for their email address and in exchange you give them a one time discount on their purchase at your venue (i.e. drinks, food etc). You can then build up an email list that you can send out once a month with a list of upcoming shows. As each show gets closer you send out an email with that week's shows. Be proactive. Don't wait for the customers to visit your website to see who's playing. They won't. If an art gallery has a showing they don't leave it up to the artist to promote the show. The gallery promotes it. Musicians are artists, you are the gallery. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't host live music?


This is true, but any venue that doesn't do this is dumb. This is just simple marketing. If you're having an event, make it known so more people will come. The more people that come the more people that spend money. Easy.

Quote by Voyevoda

3. Get a decent sound system. That means get some subwoofers, some monitors, a real mixing board and some actual mains. You see, the better the band sounds, the better the band plays. The better the band plays, the more fun the audience has. The more fun the audience has, the more drinks they buy. The more drinks they buy, the more money you make. And the the more money you make means you can pay the bands. If you don't want to get a better sound system, maybe you shouldn't host live music?


Depends on the venue. Most bars without soundsystems are smart and just have a powered PA or two and hire singer songwriter guys to come do it. Honestly, though, with how loud drums and amps are, as long as you have one powered PA for the vocals and slaved off monitor to hear yourself, you really should be fine, right? You're a grown up in a big kid band, right? You don't have to be a diva and stomp you feet because they don't have a pair of JBL 18's? Remember, you're not owed anything. You're there to make the venue money.

Quote by Voyevoda

4. Get a real sound guy! This means someone who actually knows how to run a sound board. Someone that knows what impedance and ohms mean. Someone that doesn't double as the bartender but actually knows how to run a 32 channel board. This means hiring a dedicated sound engineer because YOU know how important it is for the band to sound good (see #3). If you don't want to pay for a dedicated sound engineer, then maybe you shouldn't host live music?


If you're really that serious about music, you really should be able to mix yourselves. I am close friends with more than a few sound engineers. Plenty of those guys are willing to work for beer, but to pay one reliable person gets really expensive, and it hurts the bottom line. I can see why some go without. Again, it depends on the venue.

That said, soundmen are convenient, but if you don't have one and it hurts your show, that's only your own fault. It's your band, you know what you're supposed to sound like. You soundcheck yourselves every practice, right? If you don't, reconsider your attitude and what your goal is in delivering sound to the audience.

Quote by Voyevoda

5. Invest in some lights. No band wants to walk onstage and perform while your house lights are still on. Make it feel like a music venue. Not like the band just walked in from the street and are playing some bedroom somewhere. If you show the music respect then the bands and the fans will show your venue respect. If you don't want to invest in lights, maybe you shouldn't host live music?


I do a lot of band photography. This is a good tip, but for the love of god, I'm so sick the the red/green can lights that you get at Best Buy for like $75. Horrid harsh light that makes photos look like shit. Bleh.

Also, if you don't wanna invest in lights maybe you shouldn't host live music? Yet another diva attitude. Every bar is different. There's a bar in Madison here that their only stage lights are christmas light strands hanging down. They do almost all acoustic sets and it fills their stage and their personality perfectly. It must have costed a whopping $60.

Quote by Voyevoda

6. For God Sakes, turn off the TVs while the band is performing. There is nothing more disrespectful to a band than to see a bunch of people watching TV while they are performing. It doesn't matter who is onstage. If you have TVs on, people will invariably turn their gaze to the screen. The local news or Duck Dynasty can wait. If you can't respect the bands or the music enough to turn the TVs off, then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?


Again, it's not about you, it's about the cash you're bringing. If someone wants to watch ESPN and listen to you at the same time, I'm going to have the TV on. IF SOMEONE CAME JUST TO HAVE A DRINK REGARDLESS OF YOU, I'M NOT GOING TO FORCE THEM TO FEED YOUR DELICATE NEED FOR ATTENTION BECAUS YOU'RE IN 'A BAND.' This point sucks dick. Get over yourself, author-of-this-article.

Quote by Voyevoda

7. Designate a dedicated merch area for the bands so they can display their merchandise in a professional manner. I'm pretty sure you can allocate a corner or wall where they can set up a table right? And please provide some lighting so people can actually see what the band is selling. All you need is a clip on light just above the merch table. Not only does it help the band but it shows you actually care. If you can't provide a merch area then maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?


I'm really tired of this "maybe you shouldn't be hosting live music?" Malarky. This author is so contrived.

The point remains, providing a merch area is easy and really profitable. The amount of times I've seen a venue not let you display merch is zero times. Zero times.


8. Okay we know not all venues are big enough for a stage, but for those that are, build a proper stage for the band. That doesn't mean just throw some plywood on 2x4s and calling it a day. That means making sure that there are plenty of electrical outlets around the stage so everyone can plug their equipment in and not blow a circuit because now you have a 250 watt bass amp sharing the same circuit as the lighting and the subwoofers (that is if you've installed them)./QUOTE]

I started erasing the last sentence. It's making me itch.

The stage ideal is dumb. Just because you can doesn't mean you shouldn't. I know of a place in norther WI that puts their band directly in their front window, so folks can see from outside, and they pump the music from the board out to the outdoor speakers; it's really cool. Now, the place is split-level, so if it had a stage, you'd only be looking at shoes, and that's un-rad.

However, the point raised about sharing dirty power is a really, really valid one. If you want to host live music, YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED AT LEAST TWO POWER CONDITIONERS and a good switch box for overloads. Conditioned power will save on noise, cost, and accidents.


Wait for part 2.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#33
Quote by Voyevoda

9. Stop telling the band that playing your bar or club is good exposure for them and then turn around and tell them they have to bring 100 people. If it were good exposure for them then YOU would be providing the exposure not the band. So if you don't want tp pay the band then YOU provide the audience. That's only fair right? That means you promote, you advertise, you bring the crowd. Then the band can sell their merch and you wouldn't have to pay them because you provided the exposure. But that's not how it works is it? No it isn't. So how about if you are expecting them to bring the crowd so you can sell them alcohol, then you pay the band. No ifs. Ands. Or buts! How is the band bringing their fans providing good exposure for them? It's not. What it's actually doing is providing exposure for YOUR venue. You get free publicity out of the band and don't even give them a cut of the bar? Shame on you.


It is good exposure, and if you don't bring people then what money are they supposed to god damn pay you with. You're there for the venue to make money first. It's a symbiotic relationship, but if you're just taking money from them and not bringing any in, you're a parasite. This is the worst point of all from an understanding standpoint.

Quote by Voyevoda

10. Update your website with ALL the bands that are performing each show not just the headliners. It takes 30 seconds to update a website and list all the bands. This not only helps the fans of the opening bands know where their favorite band is playing but it makes the opening band feel like you actually give a damn about the music and the band. Also, a website consists of digital text. That means you can include as much text as you want on a page. That means you can include the bio of every band that is going to play your venue on your website. Websites aren't like print. You don't have to pay per word. This isn't 1846.


Diva. Diva, diva, diva. "Why is it that our 4th opener isn't on the flyer! Nevermind that you have to pay the graphic designer to make this on our behalf and they'd have to have it in size 4 font to fit all the other bands ahead of them, but my little brother's band deserves to be on the poster!"

Again, if your band is good enough to bring the bacon, you'll get what you deserve. You're not just entitled to these things because you're a band.

Quote by Voyevoda

11. Give the bands proper sound checks. That means letting them run through a song or two BEFORE the audience is in the venue. If you have to let the bands get to your venue a couple hours early then so be it. If it means that the sound is going to be better, then isn't that a good thing? You as a club owner should want only the best for your venue, bands and patrons. This is a great place to start. Yes we know your "sound engineer" doesn't want to get there early for soundcheck because he stayed out late partying with his buds, but that's his job and it's your job to make sure he shows up on time (see #4).


As long as your band is responsible enough to show up early and do your soundcheck efficiently, I absolutely agree.

Also, "Yes we know your "sound engineer" doesn't want to get there early for soundcheck because he stayed out late partying with his buds"

Get over yourself, author, you contrived ass.

Quote by Voyevoda

12. Stop treating touring bands like they just drove around the corner to get to your venue. Touring bands drive thousands of miles to get to your esteemed venue and most of the time you are not the first venue on their stop. That means they've been sitting in a van for hours upon hours and the last thing they need is attitude from venue employees who are disgruntled because they have to play a Tuesday night for a show that barely anyone will be at because you didn't bother to print flyers, update your website or social networks. Touring bands can only do so much promoting while on the road. Sure they can update social networks and websites from their smart phones but you are right there in town. You can tell everyone in your venue about the amazing band on tour that you've got coming to play your venue! Imagine how successful each show would be if that happened.


This really depends on the band. I would say that most bands treat venues with less respect than venues treat bands. I've played a bunch of places where I was really, really disgusted with how the band was treating the owner, as if they were owed the slot to play, oh, and by the way, where's my free beer and can I have the up front parking spot?

Take time out of your day and help the owner clean up and ask them if they need a hand with anything instead of acting like you're a superstar performer and see how things change.

Quote by Voyevoda

13. (this one is for the bands) Stop walking into the venue like you are the greatest musicians on the planet. You don't own the place and unless you're selling out the local arena, keep your attitude in check. You are a musician and your job is to play your music and entertain the audience. Yes, we understand that you are tired from your long drive, you are hungry, you're broke, you're mad because your girlfriend put too much starch in your jeans etc etc. but you are not God. Don't slam the venue's microphones onto the stage. If you want to do that bring your own. Don't smash their monitors if you can't pay to replace them. They aren't yours. Don't get wasted before a show. That's so cliched and this isn't the 70's. Stop being a stereotype of what people think musicians are. You are a creative individual. Act like it. Don't act like some spoiled little kid. Your audience deserves better. If you can't conduct yourself in a professional manner that the music and the fans deserve, then maybe you shouldn't be playing live music?


Oh, that's what I was just saying.

Quote by Voyevoda

14. (Back to the club owners) If you have a marquee outside then list the bands (all of them) that will be playing that night. The show you have coming up in a month can wait. This is another way you as a club owner can help promote live music and make your venue a live music destination. Marquees are a great form of advertisement and most venues have them. Use them the way they should be used not just to advertise cold beer.


Again, Marquees are part of a bar's very limited advertising space. If your band is worth it enough to make it up there, you will. If not, make more music, get more fans, come back.

Quote by Voyevoda

15. End pay to play! Asking a band to sell 250 tickets to your venue on a Monday night and keeping 75% of the money is a disgrace and a slap in the face to the musicians.


The only reason I feel I agree with this is that this happens at places where they clearly know they're getting enough tickets. When I was in high school my band played local support and side stage for The Used and Atreyu. We played like an hour before they started on a little stage that was in the next room to the big one. We were all like 17, and they gave us 100 tickets to sell at $12 each, and if we didn't sell them all, we were in the hole to pay for the rest.

Granted, this was a BIG venue, so they clearly could afford it. This shit preys on small bands, and it's really actually meant to prey on small bands. Hence, shitty.


Well, that looks like it. I think the lesson we've learned here is that if your band is good enough and professional acting, all the things on this list will come to you naturally, as you'll be playing better venues because you bring more people. If your band isn't that great, you can't soundcheck yourself, and you're still covering Sublime's Santeria despite the fact that every other band in the world is as well, then you should take a step back and make some goals for your band.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#34
i dont get the attraction of live music in a pub

people don't show up to listen to the music, they're there to chat with friends while having a beer. they're not going to shut up and enjoy the music.

all playing music does is add to the noisiness of it all.
#35
Quote by Godsmack_IV
i dont get the attraction of live music in a pub

people don't show up to listen to the music, they're there to chat with friends while having a beer. they're not going to shut up and enjoy the music.

all playing music does is add to the noisiness of it all.

m8 pub music is the shit. it allows me to drink my beer of cholice from an actual glass while enjoying good choons

basically i get my personal space, favourite drink on a clean flat surface, i dont have to stand and the music is more to my tastes than say a club

there is no other venue type that doesnt sacrifice at least one of these, though i am a big fan of outdoor music festivals


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#36
Bucky is so right on everything he posted. The OP of this thread obviously has little to no experience dealing with club owners and with the rock star attitude he won't be having much future interaction. Sound check in a club? It's usually the first song or two in the first set.

Your bands name on the marquee? If you draw more people than the "Wednesday night all you can eat" rib night, your name will be there. Until then..........

Godsmack is right also. There is a significant part of the club audience that wishes there was no band at all no matter how good you are. You have to make them want you. If the TV is more interesting than your performance it's not the customers fault.

I agree with thing about the power. It's a constant problem but unfortunately guess what, it's the bands problem. Buy a few hum cancelling/ground lift adapters. It may (or may not) help but you should have a few in that box that you carry your extension cords in.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Dec 17, 2014,
#37
By the way, I do like this thread. It opens a dialog about what musicians expect and what is actual reality in dealing with clubs and owners. I learned the hard way. Maybe some this discussion will help others.

One thing I am a little puzzled about is the idea of not getting paid. Who makes a deal to play in a club/bar and then not get paid? If you are just doing it for some kind of audition with club I understand. Set up do a half dozen songs and get a (hopefully) polite yes or no then leave. But if you made a deal to play four sets and didn't get paid at the end of the night, you need help in the business department. That's nuts.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Dec 17, 2014,
#38
Bottom line: Be professional, sound good. If you do those two things, your band will have a great relationship with venues and owners. You don't deserve anything for being a band. However, being a good one will grant you benefits above the bad ones.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#39
We just had live music at a new facility we opened and yes, we paid the (covers)band. (4 hours, $2500.00)

What did we supply?

Nothing but power. They showed up with the PA, lights, board, sound engineer etc. In short, everything they needed to play. They showed up early, did a thorough sound check and provided a quality product.

If your band can't do that, you won't get the pay you apparently think you "deserve".

You aren't special because you're providing an artistic service. Only results matter.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
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