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#1
Brought to you by the fans of the Stratocaster and Telecaster threads!:
UG's Strat-Talk: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603076
UG's TDPRI: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=587493



OFFSET GUITARS!
Am I right?!



Welcome, friends. The purpose of this thread is the discussion of these guitars, their equipment, applications, and most of all, sharing super hella sexy pictures of awesome offset guitars!
#2
The Jazzmaster

Quote by www.webrocker.de
When Fender introduced the Jazzmaster in 1958, it was designed to replace the Stratocaster as the top model. It featured a new body shape – the “Offset Waist Contour Body”, that meant to provide a better balance and comfort. The Jazzmaster was an attempt to enter the jazz market, too, so it was equipped with newly designed pickups with a mellower sound than the Stratocaster or the Telecaster, rather like a hollow body guitar. Unlike the single coils of the Stratocaster, the single coils of the Jazzmaster are wide and rather flat, covered in a white rectangular housing. So they pick up a wider area of the vibrating strings and thus their sound is less “pointy”.

The Jazzmaster was the first of Fender’s guitars with a rosewood fretboard – which later was offered for the other models, too.

Leo Fender designed an all-new vibrato system (floating tremolo and bridge with individually adjustable barrels) and a new electronics circuit for the Jazzmaster: The circuit allows the player to preset two different tone- and volume settings and to change between the two settings simply by flipping one switch. One circuit controls only the neck pickup (the rhythm-circuit) and the other (the lead-circuit) has a three-way toggle switch that selects the two pickups alone or together. The guitar has brass-shielded cavities and a aluminium covered pickguard because the wide singlecoils are very sensitive towards hum and circuit-noise. Additionally, the two pickups are mirrored (coil winding and polarity) so when played together, a hum-cancelling effect is achieved.

Few jazz players were interested – despite the promising name and the design features – but soon the guitar was used by rock’n’roll- and surf guitarists…


More info on the changes on Jazzmaster models throughout the 60’s in this great article by Greg Gagliano




Notable Jazzmaster Users:
  • J Mascis
  • Lee Ronaldo
  • Thurston Moore
  • Elvis Costello
  • Kevin Shields
  • Frank Zappa
  • Nels Cline
  • Courtney Love
Last edited by JustRooster at Dec 21, 2014,
#3
The Jaguar

Quote by www.webrocker.de
In mid-1962, with the instrumental rock and roll blooming into “surf” and becoming hip in California and elsewhere, Fender introduced the Jaguar model. This short scale (24″ instead of 25.5″ guitar was considered a high-end instrument, and with its chrome-control plates, the mute and bridge cover it had just THE look. Actually, it was considered Fender’s top-of-the-line model until 1967 when Jimi Hendrix changed everything with his use of the Stratocaster… :-)

The Jaguar pickups are more powerful and better shielded, which eliminated some of the hum problems associated with the Jazzmaster. It’s overall sound is more aggressive, but thinner than the Jazzmaster’s, the short scale, the tremolo/bridge design and the pickups together produce a percussive sound with less sustain. Playing the bridge pickup alone with the “strangle” switch added results in an icy, sharp tone, that cuts through any band sound easily.

The Jaguar shared the rhythm circuit with the Jazzmaster, but the lead-circuit works different: Three two-way slider switches operate like this:
* neck-pickup on/off;
* bridge-pickup on/off
* “bass-cut” or “strangle” switch that adds a capacitor to the circuit when on – resulting in an even thinner sound (see the Interactive Jaguar).

The Jaguar has nearly the same body and peghead shape as the Jazzmaster (the body dimensions are slightly different), 2 white narrow Strat-like single coil pickups with notched metal side plates (“saw teeth&rdquo, 2 knobs and 3 individual pickup switches on treble side, selector switch and 2 roller knobs on bass side, string mute, and Jazzmaster type floating tremolo/bridge.

The string mute was meant to help the player mute the strings, which was a difficult thing to do on both the Jaguar and Jazzmaster with the palm of the hand when the bridge cover was attached. But the mute was never popular with the players, since it allows zero control over the muting and it could detune the guitar – when engaged it presses at the strings from below directly in front of the bridge and the relative low tension of the strings (a result of the unique bridge/trem design) will allow the tuning to go sharp. So many mutes went right into guitar case and were lost, so not too many vintage Jaguars are found with mutes attached.





Notable Jazzmaster Users:
  • Johnny Marr
  • Kurt Cobain
  • John Frusciante
  • Carl Wilson
  • Win Butler
  • Scott Hill
  • Mark Morton
Last edited by JustRooster at Dec 21, 2014,
#4
The Mustang

Quote by wikipedia
The Mustang has an offset waist, reminiscent of the Jazzmaster, but its overall styling closely followed the existing student models the Musicmaster and Duo-Sonic, the slight waist offset being the main change. After the release of the Mustang, the Musicmaster and Duo-Sonic were redesigned using the Mustang body; These were branded the Musicmaster II and Duo-Sonic II but the decals were not consistently applied.

All three Mustang-bodied models (Mustang, Musicmaster II and Duo-Sonic II) were offered with optionally the 21 fret 22.5-inch (or 3/4 scale) neck, or a 22 fret 24-inch neck, but the 24-inch was overwhelmingly more popular and 3/4 scale examples are rare. A 24-inch scale is still relatively short, the same as the Fender Jaguar but a full inch and a half shorter than the Stratocaster and three-quarters of an inch shorter than the Gibson Les Paul. The short scale may improve ease of use for people with small hands, and also enhances the ability to use the tremolo arm for upbends.

This short scale, combined with a unique and extremely direct tremolo arm would make the Mustang a cult guitar in the 1990s. Before that, its relatively low cost and marketing as a student guitar made it an obvious candidate for aftermarket upgrades, particularly pickup changes and also amateur finishes. Its wiring with the original pickups also led itself to custom modifications.

In 1966 Fender issued the Fender Mustang Bass. A new bass body was designed for this with a similar offset body style to the Mustang guitar, and a short (30-inch) scale was used.

In 1969 Fender released the "Competition" Mustang with a "racing stripe" paint job and painted headstocks. Body contours were also added at this time. The competition mustangs came in Competition Red, Competition Blue (known as Competition Burgundy in the Fender catalog), and Competition Orange. This paint scheme was heavily influenced by the Shelby Mustang cars of the late 1960s.

In 1982 Fender discontinued both the Mustang and the Musicmaster II. These were the last of the offset student models to be made. Fender replaced the Mustang line with the short-lived Fender Bullet line of guitars and basses before relegating production of their student guitars to their Squier division.

In 1990 Fender re-issued the Mustang, largely as a result of the vintage movement prevalent at the time. Among grunge and punk rock guitarists, Fender's discontinued models (budget models such as the Duo-Sonic and high-end models such as the Jazzmaster and Jaguar) had become extremely popular. Such models had Fender quality, but were less expensive secondhand than vintage Stratocasters and Telecasters.

The reissued Mustang is made in Japan and available in only the 24-inch scale. While the original Mustangs used mostly poplar wood for the body (with some rarely documented cases of mahogany), MG-72 Mustang reissues are made of the similar basswood, the newer MG-65 reissues revert to the original poplar. The natural-finished MG-77 reissue is made of ash.

In 2011 Fender released a new Mustang model in the so-called Pawn Shop series, called the Mustang Special. The model features an offset Mustang body shape and a 24-inch scale neck, but with humbucking pickups and a hard-tail Stratocaster bridge.[1]

In 2012 Fender announced a Kurt Cobain Signature Mustang. This model is based on Kurt's modified Mustangs that he played during the In Utero tour. Instead of having 2 single coil pickups it has a Seymour Duncan JB humbucker in the bridge and a normal Mustang single coil in the neck. It also has an angled Fender adjusto-matic bridge instead of the standard Mustang bridge. (found on the vintage and Japanese reissue models) Finish colours include: Fiesta Red, Sonic Blue, and Dark Lake Placid Blue with Competition Stripe. It will also be the first Mustang model that will be sold right handed, as well as left-handed in Europe.

Later in 2012, Squier released a new Mustang in the Vintage Modified series.





Notable Jazzmaster Users:
  • Nora Jones
  • Kurt Cobain
  • David Byrne
  • Andrew Belew
  • Graham Cox
  • Steve Turner
Last edited by JustRooster at Dec 21, 2014,
#5
The Others


Jagstang

Cobain suggested his idea for an instrument to Fender, resulting in two left-handed prototypes built by former Custom Shop Master Builder Larry L. Brooks, only one of which was played by Cobain himself.

In an interview from January 4, 1994, Cobain talked about designing the Jag-Stang, since it had not yet been produced. He stated to Nardwuar the Human Serviette that he designed it by taking a Polaroid of the Mustang and Jaguar, cutting them in half and combining them.

It was shipped back to Fender for repairs before Cobain brought it with him on the European leg of Nirvana's In Utero tour in 1994, where the guitar was seldom played live.

Cobain sketched a basic design that was sent to Fender, which was later published as part of his Journals in 2002.


Tornado

The Toronado features two Fender Atomic humbucking pickups, a rosewood fretboard, and four chrome knobs (2 volume and 2 tone). Many models also include a tortoise-shell pickguard. The headstock features the Fender "spaghetti" logo and sports vintage style Gotoh/Kluson tuners. The body shape shadows the designs of Fender's Jazzmaster and Jaguar guitars. The Toronado also has a 24.75" scale length — an unusual feature on a Fender guitar, as this scale length is usually associated with electric guitars manufactured by Gibson.

The Toronado was reissued in 2004. This reissue has several differences from '98-'03 models, featuring more modern colors like Midnight Blue, Caramel Metallic, Blizzard Pearl and Chrome Red. The pickups are also open-coil as opposed to the covered humbuckers featured on the earlier models. The 2004 models were discontinued in 2006 and are rare due to their short 2-year production span. The Fender Toronado GT HH (05-06) was crafted in Korea, sporting a mahogany body and Seymour Duncan humbuckers rather than Duncan-designed pickups. It was part of Fender's "Big Block" series. The guitar came in metallic finishes with a painted headstock and a racing stripe in a reverse L shape going from the left side of the body to the upper right horn. Unlike other variants of the Toronado, it has no pickguard.

Fender also made US Special and Highway One Toronado models, featuring Atomic II humbucking pickups or Black Dove P-90 style pickups. These models were available in a number of finishes, including Butterscotch Blonde, Black, Chrome Silver, Pewter Grey Metallic and Crimson Red Transparent. Later models were upgraded to feature a Fender Tech-Tonic one-piece wrap-around bridge and black headstock. Both the US Special and Highway One Toronado models were discontinued in 2004.

As of January 2007, all Toronado variants had been discontinued by Fender.


Duo Sonic

Original design (1956-1959)

Squier classic vibe Duo-Sonic.
The Fender Duo-Sonic was introduced in 1956. Like the Musicmaster introduced a few months earlier, it featured basic but effective construction and a 22.5 inch scale length (standard Fender guitars feature a 25.5 inch scale) and cost $149.50. The original model was only available in a light tan color called Desert Sand and had a maple fingerboard with 20 frets and a neck with a soft-V profile. The original model Duo-Sonics also sport a gold-colored, anodized scratch plate that helps in screening the single-coil pickups and electronics from interference.

Second version (1959-1964)
In 1959 the Duo-Sonic went through a face lift. The most significant change was a switch from a maple fingerboard to a rosewood one in keeping with changes to other Fender models at this time. These fretboards were originally in the slab-style but switched to the veneer style after approximately a year. The other significant change was a switch from anodized aluminum to plastic pickguards.

Third version - Duo-Sonic II (1964-1968)
In 1964 the Duo-Sonic was redesigned based on the Fender Mustang that had recently been added to the student model line but without the vibrato tail-piece. The student guitars now all featured larger and slightly offset bodies, necks with larger headstocks and rosewood fingerboards and plastic pickguards with the volume and tone controls mounted on a separate metal plate. Pickup selection was moved above the pickups on both the Duo-Sonic and the Mustang and utilized two 3-position on-off-on switches that allowed for in and out-of-phase sounds. The pickups were also reverse-wound/reverse-polarity, which made them into a functional humbucker when both pickups were used simultaneously. Also added in this redesign was the option of a 24 inch scale neck in addition to the 22.5 inch scale. This re-designed model was renamed Duo-Sonic II although decals with and without the II designation were used occasionally. In addition to white, Daphne Blue and Dakota Red colors added.

The Duo-Sonic lasted until 1969 when it was dropped most likely because the Mustang with its tremolo tail piece was far more popular.

The Duo-Sonic I and II are both considered rare and have displayed growing collector value. The Duo-Sonic II in particular is often seen as a desirable alternative to the more popular Mustang, since it lacks the difficult-to-maintain tremolo bridge.
Last edited by JustRooster at Dec 21, 2014,
#6
How do I get the Cobaintone?

I'm doing what MLP told me and its not working


|-------------15----14----|
|----15-------------------|
|-------14-12----14----14-|
|-12----------------------|
|-------------------------|
|-------------------------|
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Omae wa mou
Shindeiru



Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 21, 2014,
#7
ah.. Fender's other guitar. the Jazzmaster is an interesting guitar that doesn't feel or sound much like a Strat or /tele. glad to see a resurgence in it and the Jaguar as both are fine guitars. not for metal but great for indie rock and of course surf style music. often overlooked for 60s rock but they were a key part of the Yardbirds sound as well as other rock bands of the time. in the 70s Elvis Costello rocked a jazzmaster on his best material.

never owned a fender but did have a Kapa Continental back in my early playing days which was a copy and fun to play.
#9
Yaaaaaaay!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#10
Malden had a trio of nice offsets- the Liquid, Utopia and Mozak- before they apparently went under this year.

www.performing-musician.com/pm/dec07/articles/malden.htm
www.guitarrelic.com/malden/malden-utopia
http://gear-vault.com/malden-mozak-guitar-review/

Worth looking for.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#11
Other notables:

G&L's Fallout:
www.glguitars.com/instruments/usa/guitars/fallout/index.asp

Reverend's Kingbolt, Six Gun, Double Agent, Jetstream, Bayonet and
Warhawk:
www.reverendguitars.com/category/guitar/

The entire line from Hell Guitars:
http://www.hellguitars.com

The Fret-King Ventura (see the Black Label and Blue label versions)- the most unusual of the lot:
http://fret-king.com
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#12
The Fender classic player HH jaguars look awesome. Anyone have one/tried one?
Who are you? The prince of darkness? Don't you have any friends?


#13
Back when I was new to guitar I fell in love with a candy apple red Jaguar in a guitar store window. Never played it, but damn it looked good. I'll probably end up buying one someday just from nostalgia at ogling that guitar - and I still think they look great.

As a big fan of Jackson/Charvel, I can't post here without bringing up the Surfcaster. Very cool design.
#15
oh great

this thread shows up right when im trying to forget about the mustang

i think it's a sign that i should get one


right guys


but still can't decide between the mustang or the jagstang
please ignore my username
#18
Quote by Kytokinesis
The Fender classic player HH jaguars look awesome. Anyone have one/tried one?



I used to own one. Did not enjoy the humbuckers, but if you swap them, great guitar.


EDIT: Ippon's got the right idea.
#21
Quote by dannyalcatraz


Reverend's Kingbolt, Six Gun, Double Agent, Jetstream, Bayonet and
Warhawk:
www.reverendguitars.com/category/guitar/


Forgot- nearly every USA made Reverend- as in, before they shifted to MiK production- is an offset. STELLAR guitars.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Quote by JustRooster
Ippon's got the right idea.

Indeed!

Alas, I have no real offsets of my own...yet.

But a Jetstream 390 and Warhawk 390 or RT are high on my 2015-2016 list.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#23
page 2 and no mention of the Fender XII. very cool 12 string played on a fair amount of classic rock.
#25
Those sound awesome, but I never cared for their headstocks.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#26
Quote by monwobobbo
page 2 and no mention of the Fender XII. very cool 12 string played on a fair amount of classic rock.



mr.page approves


please ignore my username
#29
Quote by nirvana_n_roses
mr.page approves




I approve as well.

IPPON I got your n00b right here buddy LOL. good pic.
#30
Quote by monwobobbo
I approve as well.

IPPON I got your n00b right here buddy LOL. good pic.



Quote by Fumble fingers
one more shot of the three


Nice yard, nice guitars!

I'd refinish the deck with water seal ... maybe even tint it.
#34
As this is a thread for offset fenders I think it would be appropriate to share my experiences of dealing with the infamous Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge and various solutions which are available:

Buzz Stop:

This is an affordable little roller device that improves the break angle at which the strings pass over the saddles. It's easy to attach and the modification is completely reversible.

My experience with it is it fixes all of the issues with the Jag/JM bridge (rattling, buzzing, loose screws, strings popping out and shifting into different slots completely messing up the string spacing, etc), but can potentially create some other issues because I think it compensates for the break angle a little too much:

1) Strings catching on the intonation screw heads at the back of the bridge if the saddles are adjusted too low, particularly the high E string
2) Strings catching on the protruding tip of the intonation screws at the front of the bridge, particularly problematic on an unwound G string where due to the fretboard radius and the way the strings intonate, this saddle will need to be set fairly high when you match the string radius to the fretboard, in order to prevent the first problem from occurring, but also far back enough to cause the tip of the screw to stick out from the saddle far enough and at enough of an upward angle to potentially catch on the string. I had a weird issue where the G string was rubbing against the tip of the screw causing it to choke out badly when playing higher up the fretboard. A solution that worked for me was to use shorter screws.

Additionally, the Buzz Stop alters the way the strings resonate behind the bridge which some people might not want to change.

Graphtech Saddles:

These had grooves deep enough to prevent the strings from jumping out of the saddles and the screws were seated snugly enough in the threads to prevent any rattling, but they were too small, had gaps between them which allowed them to move from side to side and even tilt and lift up off the bridge base at an awkward angle when bending strings and didn't always return to the same position, causing tuning problems, and sucked away a significant amount of what little sustain the guitar had in the first place. I would not recommend these at all.

Mustang Bridge:

This is a widely recommended solution that solves the problems for a lot of people, but I still have issues with strings popping out of the saddles with a mustang bridge.

It's quite easy to imagine how the mustang bridge is an improvement over the slotted saddle design of the original bridge though - the saddles are bigger and chunkier, with one deep slot for the strings to go through, and the radius is fixed at 7.25" to match the fretboard radius of a vintage style jaguar or jazzmaster, so there's nothing to rattle, less likelihood of any string slippage, and you'd also expect a bit of extra sustain due to the increased mass of the saddles and the better overall contact with the bridge base, etc.

In my experience, the mustang bridge does improve the situation with string slippage, in that you have to whack the strings pretty damn hard to get them to slip out of the slots in the saddles, but it's still possible enough to bother me. I think the single slot actually makes the situation worse when a string does pop out of the slot, because it's resting haphazardly on an un-slotted piece of metal and has potential to slip around all over the place. I also found that the saddles were low enough against the bridge base that the high E string could easily snag on the head of the intonation screw. and in addition to that, I find the high E string can easily slip out of its slot if I bend it far enough, or if I pull it up during some over-enthusiastic hybrid picking. So for me, the Mustang bridge has been no good at all

Tune-o-Matic:

Not easy to install on a Jag/JM with a Vintage style bridge, but if you're willing to modify the guitar irreversibly and get it done properly (get the string spacing and radius properly matched, etc), it can be well worth it. Fender currently offers several models with a factory fitted "adjust-o-matic" (Basically, a Tune-o-matic with minimal trademark infringement), and if you're wanting to buy a jaguar or jazzmaster and don't want to deal with the hassle of the infamous bridge, these are well worth going for. In addition to fitting a tune-o-matic, I think the tremolo unit has been moved a little closer to the bridge on these models, too, improving the break angle. I have not owned one of these guitars, but I have played enough of them in guitar shops and never once noticed a problem with the bridge (Having said that, I tend to be gentle with guitars that aren't mine, and maybe just haven't been hitting them hard enough!)

Some things I haven't tried (yet):

Neck Shims: this might help to fix the break angle enough to keep the strings in place without creating the issues I had with the buzz-stop. Or it might not make enough of a difference to solve anything, depending on the guitar, the gauge of strings you use, how you play, etc...

Mustang Saddle Shims: You can increase the height of the saddles on a Mustang bridge by placing a metal shim under them, which should help prevent the strings from catching on the intonation screws.

Mastery Bridge: Now, this is a very pricey solution, but even without any first hand experience of one I can quite confidently say I expect these will fix ALL of the problems associated with the Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge. The saddles are slotted very deeply indeed, and the base of the bridge has been reshaped in such a way that the strings have nothing to catch on behind the bridge, so in the event that the break angle is still too shallow and you're still getting problems, you can shim the neck or attach a buzz stop without having to worry about that creating any additional problems.

This turned into a bit of a long, rambling post, but I hope it helps someone somehow If there are any other solutions I hadn't considered please share them (They will be helpful to me, too!)
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#35


(Didn't realize it would be so big!)
Here's mine. I been playing the shit out of it since I got it, love it!
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
Last edited by lucky1978 at Dec 21, 2014,
#36
I just drilled the posts off a mustang bridge and put it on my Jazzmaster, which had a Mosrise Tune-o-matic style. I can now adjust action the same as if it were a Tune-o-Matic as well as each saddle individually. I'll let you all know how it pans out in the long run.

Right now I definitely have more rattle with the Mustang bridge, but I'm sure a Buzzstop will help with that.