#1
With all the Hype about 9 strings nowadays and 8 strings are there some extended basses that are tuned down to F#BEAD ? I known its 23 Mhz at lowest F#0 but saw few basses liek that. Do you think that companies will consider to make basses for extreme tunings? So amps?
#2
I don't know of any specific basses but if you look on gear4music.com that there are strings for a 4 string which tunes to F# if this helps you at all
#4
Quote by moody git
warwick make a variant of the vampyre that is tuned F#BEA. most of the extended range basses i know of are multi-scale dingwalls - nolly from periphery uses a few of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMxbP1V3WBo

Yeah those string I was on about are made specific for that bass I just checked
#5
Quote by rockstar256
With all the Hype about 9 strings nowadays and 8 strings are there some extended basses that are tuned down to F#BEAD ? I known its 23 Mhz at lowest F#0 but saw few basses liek that. Do you think that companies will consider to make basses for extreme tunings? So amps?


Probably not. Reproducing those notes is beyond all but the very best audiophile gear, and certainly beyond almost everything that could be used in a band context. It smacks of Spinal Tap and someone standing around shouting, "I'm playing notes you can't even HEAR!!!"
#6
Advances in speaker technology means that any halfway decent cab will play the. Remember that strings are fixed to a single frequency band. An F# will be mostly percussive.

Any bass will be able to fit a string gauge high enough (.140?) but it will require careful filing at the nut and possibly the bridge saddles too. I would recommend higher scale lengths.
#8
Quote by Spaz91
Advances in speaker technology means that any halfway decent cab will play the. Remember that strings are fixed to a single frequency band. An F# will be mostly percussive.


Please identify a current "halfway decent" speaker cabinet that will play a 23Hz note at band volumes. Which "advances" are you talking about?

I don't even know what "remember that strings are fixed to a single frequency band" means.

A F# mostly won't get a chance to BE percussive. It will mostly be identified by the pattern of higher harmonics that suggest that you INTENDED to hit an F#, but were unable to reproduce the fundamental.

A piano's lowest note is the A-0 at about 27.5Hz, and in order for it to be heard distinctly (compared to its neighboring two or three notes), you pretty much need a 9-foot grand.
#9
Quote by dspellman
Please identify a current "halfway decent" speaker cabinet that will play a 23Hz note at band volumes. Which "advances" are you talking about?
Whatever advances they made to make the various amps I've used play those frequencies without farting put.
I don't even know what "remember that strings are fixed to a single frequency band" means.
You're talking like an F# is only there for for the sub-30hz sound. It isn't.
A F# mostly won't get a chance to BE percussive. It will mostly be identified by the pattern of higher harmonics that suggest that you INTENDED to hit an F#, but were unable to reproduce the fundamental.
Nah.
A piano's lowest note is the A-0 at about 27.5Hz, and in order for it to be heard distinctly (compared to its neighboring two or three notes), you pretty much need a 9-foot grand.
Or an amp.
Last edited by Spaz91 at Dec 23, 2014,
#10
Quote by Spaz91
Whatever advances they made to make the various amps I've used play those frequencies without farting put.


Again, name one. I'm willing to bet the F# fundamental has never been present, and definitely not at "band" volumes.


Quote by Spaz91
You're talking like an F# is only there for for the sub-30hz sound. It isn't.



The B (at 30.87 Hz) on a five-string is tough enough for most cabinets to reproduce accurately. You're talking about tuning that string down five frets below that. Yeah, I realize that you can play the F# string at B and above (to get past the sub-30Hz you're talking about), but then the question arises...why?, when a standard five-string will pretty much allow you to cover that region with impunity. And if it's just to play high patterns, then why are you not using a shorter-scale bass; why bother with the long scale?

Quote by Spaz91
Nah.


Those are the physics of how we hear an F# without a fundamental being present. We hear a specific mathematical pattern of harmonics that indicates the note without actually producing it. All you're hearing are harmonic sounds:
"A harmonic sound is said to have a missing fundamental, suppressed fundamental, or phantom fundamental when its overtones suggest a fundamental frequency but the sound lacks a component at the fundamental frequency itself. The brain perceives the pitch of a tone not only by its fundamental frequency, but also by the periodicity implied by the relationship between the higher harmonics; we may perceive the same pitch (perhaps with a different timbre) even if the fundamental frequency is missing from a tone."

Quote by Spaz91
Or an amp.


And we're back to providing an example of a current "halfway decent" speaker cabinet that reproduces an F# at band volumes. I'm using some pretty good speaker cabinets (fEARful 15/6/1s) and some fairly decent amplification (1500W RMS), and I'd say it does well enough at 40Hz, maybe even pretty well at 35Hz. Below that I have an HPF that has a pretty healthy cut (maybe -24dB) to eliminate frequencies that the system really can't reproduce well and that simply suck power. The cabinet I use is running an eminence kappalite 3015LF (15") with a very healthy Xmax. I'd call this pretty current speaker technology, and it's not going to reproduce F# at band volumes any day this week.
#11
If you're interested in playing bass with guitarists who use 8 or 9 strings, you shouldn't be trying to play a full octave down from them all the time. It's nearly impossible, and sounds like shit anyway. They're playing in the bass range. But that doesn't mean your bass is pointless. For low parts, where they're chugging away on their insanely low notes, just play right along with them. Doesn't matter that you're in the same octave, a bass and a guitar still sound different enough that playing in unison produces a nice effect. Or, take advantage of the fact that they've abandoned their sonic space to invade yours, and invade them right back. Play higher harmonies. It sounds sweet on the bass.
#12
Quote by dspellman
Again, name one. I'm willing to bet the F# fundamental has never been present, and definitely not at "band" volumes.

You've completely missed the point and I can't be arsed going through it all again.
#13
There seems to be no end to the "Multi-Stringed Madness" that has infected both the guitar and bass world. The only limits to the number of strings and available tunings seem to be the size of your bank account:









Any questions?

Prepare to spend insane amounts of cash!
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#16
Quote by the_bi99man
If you're interested in playing bass with guitarists who use 8 or 9 strings, you shouldn't be trying to play a full octave down from them all the time. It's nearly impossible, and sounds like shit anyway. They're playing in the bass range. But that doesn't mean your bass is pointless. For low parts, where they're chugging away on their insanely low notes, just play right along with them. Doesn't matter that you're in the same octave, a bass and a guitar still sound different enough that playing in unison produces a nice effect. Or, take advantage of the fact that they've abandoned their sonic space to invade yours, and invade them right back. Play higher harmonies. It sounds sweet on the bass.

This. Bass doesn't make the song sound big because it sounds octave lower than guitar (well, that's one reason of course) but because it sounds different.

Even in songs that use regular 6 string guitars and 4 string basses, the bass could be playing in the guitar range most of the time and it wouldn't sound the same as if there was just two guitars playing.

And yeah, you can be creative. Bass doesn't always have to play the same thing as guitars an octave lower/in the same octave.

I don't see a point in basses that go much lower than a normal 5 string bass. Your ear can't even tell what note you are playing.

But here's one that TS may be looking for. As you can hear, the lowest are really hard to tell apart. He plays the harmonic minor and the major scale on the lowest strings and they both sound the same to my ears. I just don't see a point in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgnYzWY0rEY
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#18
Quote by rockstar256
With all the Hype about 9 strings nowadays and 8 strings are there some extended basses that are tuned down to F#BEAD ? I known its 23 Mhz at lowest F#0 but saw few basses liek that. Do you think that companies will consider to make basses for extreme tunings? So amps?


23 MHz? that's about 1000x too high for anyone to ever hear. I think you mean 23 Hz, which is just about the lowest the human ear is capable of hearing as a note.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
Yeah, youtube video through tablet/phone/laptop speakers ain't gonna be helping things at all.


That is totally true. If you're lucky enough to have a nice big set of studio monitors, you hear low frequencies that just aren't possible with standard PC speakers or laptop speakers/cheap headphones. My 8" studio monitors go down to about 50Hz, and I tell you what, you simply can't describe how fat that sounds compared to standard PC or HiFi speakers until you actually hear it.
EH


"Show me war; show me pestilence; show me the blood-red hands of retribution..."
#19
The range of healthy human hearing is between 20 and 20,000 Hz, so the electric bass in question probably uses the rating 23Hz, rather than 23MHz, for the lowest frequency.

The problem with making a bass specifically for "extreme" down-tuned ranges is that the scale of the electric bass is already as long as is practical: 35" is the standard for 5-string/6-string basses, though some companies have offered a 36" scale bass from time to time. Anything longer than that makes the bass very difficult to play. The stretch between the first five frets would be too long for most bassists to play comfortably.

Since the manufacturers cannot make a bass with a longer scale length, Then the best way to tackle the problem of extreme down-tuning is to make strings especially for that kind of music. Whether any string manufacturer could make an electric bass string that remains tight enough for ultra-low tunings on a bass with a scale of 26" or less is debatable. Some players but their strings individually and put together a set that is as thick as the transatlantic telephone cable, but such enormously thick strings are a royal bitch to play.

If you are truly into the extreme low-end range, you might be better off playing your bass parts on an electronic keyboard. Those do not encounter the trouble that massively down-tuned basses do.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#20
(I was just lurking but I'd like to say it's refreshing to see people so open minded)

(maybe it's because of people like Jean Baudin)

and RE the keyboards thing, Sunn O))) do that
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#21
Quote by Banjocal
(I was just lurking but I'd like to say it's refreshing to see people so open minded)

(maybe it's because of people like Jean Baudin)

and RE the keyboards thing, Sunn O))) do that


Playing the bass parts on a keyboard also worked very well for Ray Manzarek of The Doors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcPTAeohmVc

We here at the Bass Forum try to be helpful, even if no one else does. Most bassists are like that.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley