#1
Is it possible to emulate the Roland 20X tube drive effect with just a pedal? If so, which would be most likely to pull it off? I've got my eyes on the Behringer Vintage Tube Overdrive and the Joyo Vintage Overdrive but I don't know if they'll be dirty enough.

Here's a video for the sound I'm trying to match (first part) so I can EQ it (second part).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_kLOUITyM

Forgive my AWFUL playing. I've owned a guitar for maybe a month.
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#2
Wow, that tone is darn good. I've always liked the Roland 20x; you're able to pull so many sounds out of it dry and with enhancing gear.

Quote by offrhode92
Is it possible to emulate the Roland 20X tube drive effect with just a pedal?


Your answer to this is no. Well, probably no. Without the stuff an amp does to your tone, your overdrive pedal by itself will probably sound like garbage. The pedal that the Tube Drive section is modeled after is probably the Tubscreamer.

There are pedals that have speaker emulation out ports, like the Bad Monkey Tube Overdrive and some Boss Pedals. The Bad Monkey is probably your best bet, and it's modeled after the Tubescreamer.

But I prefer having an amp to do an amp's work. From there, you can just mic the amp or use a line out port from the amp, which the 20X has.

Why do you not want to use the cube for your tone? It's killer considering that you are just using the guitar, cube, and an EQ. There are other ways to emulate amps, but they are hard to work with/expensive, and there's no reason to change what you have.
Last edited by Will Lane at Dec 23, 2014,
#3
Thanks for the info! I did fail to mention, I'm running a line out of the cube to the EQ, and the audio is recorded direct into Garageband.

Would the fact of eliminating the speaker and going direct make a difference in being able to reproduce that sound?

I would love to use the Cube, but unfortunately it doesn't belong to me. It's my sister's.
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Last edited by offrhode92 at Dec 23, 2014,
#4
Quote by offrhode92
Would the fact of eliminating the speaker and going direct make a difference in being able to reproduce that sound?


If you're talking about going direct from a OD pedal as a line out to your recording/EQ software, then yes. It will sound a lot different, and a lot crappier/craggier than what you want. If you have some sort of amp simulation software, that potentially could make it okay.

But to be honest, with the money you would spend on a good tube OD and amp simulation stuff, you could just buy the 20x from your sister or offline. A TS9 is ~$100 solid, Roland 20X Cubes are just a bit more.

This 20X is just $120, I'd ask to make sure the line out works correctly: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-Cube-20X-20-watt-Guitar-Amp-/161528636133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259bdb62e5

https://reverb.com/item/411768-roland-cube-20x-black
Last edited by Will Lane at Dec 23, 2014,
#5
Usually, drive effects in front of a modeling amp like the cube won't sound that great. They don't take pedals as well as most normal SS & tube amps do. What are you trying to do with the OD pedal? I see there is a footswitch input on the 20x, perhaps it could switch between clean and lead channels? Not sure if that's what your trying to do.

EDIT: +1 on Will's Idea. Get a cube d00d.
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Last edited by Funk Monk at Dec 23, 2014,
#6
Buying a Cube is definitely an option I'm weighing. The one thing I am worried about is getting ground loop hum in my signal. It didn't cause any issue when recording to my Mac in that video, but when I plugged my Mac into my home theater system the ground loop hum was way bad with the Cube in the chain.
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#7
Quote by Funk Monk
Usually, drive effects in front of a modeling amp like the cube won't sound that great. They don't take pedals as well as most normal SS & tube amps do. What are you trying to do with the OD pedal? I see there is a footswitch input on the 20x, perhaps it could switch between clean and lead channels? Not sure if that's what your trying to do.


I'd like to find an OD pedal that sounds basically the same as the Cube (which I am using pretty much as a pedal in chain in this situation)
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#8
Quote by offrhode92
Buying a Cube is definitely an option I'm weighing. The one thing I am worried about is getting ground loop hum in my signal. It didn't cause any issue when recording to my Mac in that video, but when I plugged my Mac into my home theater system the ground loop hum was way bad with the Cube in the chain.


There are also direct boxes that have ground hum removal. This one has it, although I am ignorant to how it works/what exactly ground loop is. I'm looking that up now, but here's the link:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultra-g-gi100-di#productDetail
#9
Ah, I see. I have a bad monkey, haven't tried it's emulation output, but i'm pretty sure it won't be enough gain for that beefy rhythm rock tone you want. I could be wrong, but it's more for tightening up and adding clipping to a tube amp than emulating a good thick rock tone.

This is a hard one. When you find a tone you like, STICK TO IT for a while. Often times its hard to get that same tone elsewhere.

I would just buy the cube d00d, ultimately I feel you may be disappointed with pedal alternatives. I could be wrong though.
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#10
Quote by Funk Monk
I would just buy the cube d00d, ultimately I feel you may be disappointed with pedal alternatives.


Yep. I'm not sure how to best eliminate your ground loop hum. I just watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg as my Cube has a hum problem with the line out, but I'm not going to hijack your thread to ask about it. I'll make another >: D
#11
^^^Like he says, start with putting all devices on a single power strip. If it's still there, try a ground lift on the amp or speaker system I assume.
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#12
I presume that even with just a pedal, the loop hum would still be there, and your tone would sound shoddy without the glorification of the 20X.

So if you're able to keep the cube/buy another, the only thing you need to worry about then is solving the ground hum issue, which I am curious about too.

I'm not sure if I should make a thread about it to see if the direct box thing will work, or if I need an adapter or something else.
#13
I've plowed YouTube for suitable alternatives and have narrowed my top three to the DigiTech Screamin' Blues, DigiTech Hardwire CM-2, and the Behringer VT999 Vintage Tube Monster (which uses real tubes!!)
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#14
you really need to get smoother / faster with your playing first and foremost. jerky chord changes, not muting strings / letting bad notes ring out, etc. thats a great way not to sound like boston.

are you saying you want a pedal so you can turn it on by foot and go from clean to that sound? i mean, if the amp does it why a pedal?

yeah after reading some articles, he ran a cranked amp and played with EQs. my guess is he bascially did the nasally, cocked wah mid hump, out of phase type tone. i wouldnt even be surprised if he had his pickups wired out of phase. i think if i put my carvin out of phase switch on, and did a mid gain crunch, good amount of mids, i could get close. or i would try with my wah pedal half cocked.

i would think what your doing with the gear you have is about right. if i had go to on teh cheap, you may investigate any pedal that seems to be known for that sound, or perhaps run an EQ with a marshall clone pedal. there are a bunch of pedals that try to recreate a cranked 70s style marshall tone.

...or, the cost of 2 good pedals may just be the cost of buying a used rockman preamp. seem to be going used for 200-300. aside from dropping a couple hundred on new gear, what your going right now seems to be getting you close.
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Last edited by ikey_ at Jan 2, 2015,
#15
Can I ask how you're connecting to your computer for recording? If you're just taking a line out from the amp & going direct into the mic input, that's always going to sound quite bad and has been known to damage the computer's input, something to do with the wrong kind of signal. If you're looking to keep doing that, head pver to the recordings sub-furm & read the stickies.

Anyway, to head off in a slightly different direction to the other answers, consider getting a multi effects pedal. You'll be able to simulate pretty much any tone you want, and use it through headphones, a stereo system, or an amp once you've bought one.

The Zoom G1on is a great unit with loads of great tones built in with all it's effects & amp sims, it also includes a drum sequencer & looper for you to practice to, an aux input so you can play along with an MP3 player, and it will also act as a USB interface for when you want to do some recording. For only £40, it's an awesome buy, and a great practice tool for players of all levels.
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#16
Quote by ikey_
you really need to get smoother / faster with your playing first and foremost. jerky chord changes, not muting strings / letting bad notes ring out, etc. thats a great way not to sound like boston.

are you saying you want a pedal so you can turn it on by foot and go from clean to that sound? i mean, if the amp does it why a pedal?

yeah after reading some articles, he ran a cranked amp and played with EQs. my guess is he bascially did the nasally, cocked wah mid hump, out of phase type tone. i wouldnt even be surprised if he had his pickups wired out of phase. i think if i put my carvin out of phase switch on, and did a mid gain crunch, good amount of mids, i could get close. or i would try with my wah pedal half cocked.

i would think what your doing with the gear you have is about right. if i had go to on teh cheap, you may investigate any pedal that seems to be known for that sound, or perhaps run an EQ with a marshall clone pedal. there are a bunch of pedals that try to recreate a cranked 70s style marshall tone.

...or, the cost of 2 good pedals may just be the cost of buying a used rockman preamp. seem to be going used for 200-300. aside from dropping a couple hundred on new gear, what your going right now seems to be getting you close.


Yeah the crappy playing is something I'm definitely working on I've only owned a guitar for about six weeks! The tone is my motivation though. I just work that way.

My ultimate goal is to come up with a system that is easy to replicate. I mean, sure, I could get an actual Rockman module and be done but those are in limited supply and eventually won't exist anymore. So I've come up with a two-step equation that seems to be fairly universal. I've got an EQ preset that'll transform any proper Les Paul and tube drive sound into the Boston tone. It works 100% perfectly with my sister's Roland 20X and after a lot of experimentation, I've come up with a list of pedals that will work great as well. The Behringer VT999 is my prime candidate.

The magic really is in the 31-band EQ, and those are easiest to apply to pedals.

@GaryBillington, the Cube 20X has a stereo output that I ran to my computer (and was sure to keep the volume down).

As far as ground loop goes, I did a recording with it the other day and the hum wasn't there. Must've just been a bad setup.
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#17
Quote by offrhode92
@GaryBillington, the Cube 20X has a stereo output that I ran to my computer (and was sure to keep the volume down).

The output you use on your amp doesn't matter, neither does the volume you play at, it's the computer's input that will make the recording poor quality (and which may get damaged through incorrect usage). If you're going to be recording regularly, you should invest in some proper equipment - it doesn't have to be expensive.
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#18
My MacBook does a pretty good job for input quality, I've been plenty happy with it. As far as the built-in audio renderer goes, I'm about ready to chuck a brick through the screen. CoreAudio is the living worst.
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