#1
So I was talking to some people on forums, and when they hear I use the Electro Harmonix Metal Muff, they ask why I use that for distortion, and say once I get a new amp I won't use it for dirt, what's wrong with using it for distortion? Opinions on it, or how I can possibly get the best tone for rock/metal with or without it? Thanks!
#3
Quote by NakedInTheRain
it's thin and buzzy compared to an amp's lead channel. like most pedals with the word 'metal' in their names.

Do you have any advice on how to get a better sound then for more rock/metal like stuff?
#5
Quote by dyl shermanator
Do you have any advice on how to get a better sound then for more rock/metal like stuff?


Buy a different pedal. It’s not like there’s any shortage of options. Especially now that Joyo has upped its game.
#6
idk bro, theres really only like 2 and thats the one i have and the beringer nr 300, jk, any opinions on what would be better?
#7
A better pedal is absolutely useless if you don't have an equally good amp. What do you have currently?
I'm Mitch, I like making guitar and bass gear reviews/comparisons on YouTube
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#8
Suhr Riot
Heres a few demos (this guy is good, and entertaining):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzJ2htwpydg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feyne-dQxjg
#9
What I've become aware of is this: People usually buy a nice amp with a solid, meaty crunch channel, and they use an overdrive like the Tubescreamer to push that crunch to further saturation.

It works a lot better than a standalone pedal, and even then you'll want to drive that standalone pedal even harder with an OD anyways.

That Suhr Riot pedal sounds nice though, if a little treble-y.
Last edited by Will Lane at Dec 31, 2014,
#10
Quote by Will Lane
What I've become aware of is this: People usually buy a nice amp with a solid, meaty crunch channel, and they use an overdrive like the Tubescreamer to push that crunch to further saturation.

It works a lot better than a standalone pedal, and even then you'll want to drive that standalone pedal even harder with an OD anyways.


Some yeah.
Myself, I go after an amp that has awesome cleans.
Which is why I bought an AC30.
I almost always run it full on clean, although a few times I turn the master volume up for power amp distortion. But not often.

For me, my dirt comes from 2 Tubescreamers (TS-808RI and a TS9D), but mainly use a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET for my OD sounds.
Also have a ZVex Box Of Rock, which I sometimes push with one the the Tubescreamers.

Normally, I don't trust youtube demo of dirt pedals, but the ones I posted above REALLY make me want a Suhr Riot.
I'll most likely just build one.

Quote by Will Lane
What I've become aware of is this: People usually buy a nice amp with a solid, meaty crunch channel, and they use an overdrive like the Tubescreamer to push that crunch to further saturation.

It works a lot better than a standalone pedal, and even then you'll want to drive that standalone pedal even harder with an OD anyways.

That Suhr Riot pedal sounds nice though, if a little treble-y.

The end of the first video, after the playing, he shows how both the amp and pedal are set (About 5:40), and yeah treble on the amp is set at 9 (or 5 O'Clock).
Last edited by CodeMonk at Dec 31, 2014,
#11
Play what you like. If you like how it plays and sounds. Feck other people's biased opinions. There is no better and no best, it's all about what you like.
These go to eleven...
#12
i ran a Metal Muff through a clean tube amp for a couple of years with good results. now i'll have to say that I wasn't trying to get modern metal tones at all. for late 70s Judas Priest the pedal did fine.

if you are trying to run the pedal through a cheap practice amp then don't expect monster metal tones.
#13
A standard big muff is ironicly better for metal then the metal muff. Whats your amp and budget ts?
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#14
They were suggesting that the metal muff through a crappy amp won't sound good. The Metal Muff through a decent amp that likes pedals will sound different.

Don't go buying other pedals. What amp do you have?
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#15
Metal muff is not the worst pedal and through a tube amp that takes pedals well it may even sound decent. But for high gain stuff good amp distortion usually destroys most fizz boxes. They just sound small in comparison. However there are some really good FET based preamp pedals out there. Triple Wreck, AMT legend serie, Amptweaker Tightmetal etc.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#16
My issue with using the amps overdrive channel that is I switch a lot between clean and distorted to use the amplifiers distortion, and the amp footswitch i had always took a second to switch the channels, like it would change from clean to overdrive, but you could hear a delay like the distortion would start off quietly, then get up to volume, it wasn't slow enough for many people to notice, but I could tell, and it was bothersome.
I see like this, It's better to tell yourself you're not good enough, so you always try to get better and better, rather than to say you are good enough, and not improve. You're never good enough, and in that way, you'll be the best.
#17
Quote by losing battle
A standard big muff is ironicly better for metal then the metal muff. Whats your amp and budget ts?

My current amp is a fencer mustang, just a practice amp, but i'm in the market for a new one, although I only have $500, I was looking at the randall rx120rh and 4x12 half stack, I know its a solid state, but my old band's rythem guitar uses it for live gigs, and after messing around with it tone wise, it took a little setting up, but it has gotten really good feedback from the crowds believe it or not, My guitar is a ESP Eclipse 1000 that I got from my Grandma. I know I sound like a newb, knowledge wise, and thats cause I don't have much sound knowledge, I just play what I think sounds good compared to the songs I cover, and focus more on the skill and technique, but I'm planning to get into another band, and I kind of need to focus more on live sound rather than bedroom sound.
I see like this, It's better to tell yourself you're not good enough, so you always try to get better and better, rather than to say you are good enough, and not improve. You're never good enough, and in that way, you'll be the best.
#18
Quote by dyl shermanator
My issue with using the amps overdrive channel that is I switch a lot between clean and distorted to use the amplifiers distortion, and the amp footswitch i had always took a second to switch the channels, like it would change from clean to overdrive, but you could hear a delay like the distortion would start off quietly, then get up to volume, it wasn't slow enough for many people to notice, but I could tell, and it was bothersome.

Well that's a problem with that particular amp that could easily be solved by getting a new one.

$500 can go a long way on the used market for a gigging amp. You can probably pick up a used Peavey 5150/6505 2x12 combo for that much, which would be more than enough for gigs. What particular bands are you trying to sound like?
I'm Mitch, I like making guitar and bass gear reviews/comparisons on YouTube
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Last edited by bassmastamitch at Dec 31, 2014,
#19
Quote by dyl shermanator
My current amp is a fencer mustang, just a practice amp, but i'm in the market for a new one, although I only have $500, I was looking at the randall rx120rh and 4x12 half stack, I know its a solid state, but my old band's rythem guitar uses it for live gigs, and after messing around with it tone wise, it took a little setting up, but it has gotten really good feedback from the crowds believe it or not, My guitar is a ESP Eclipse 1000 that I got from my Grandma. I know I sound like a newb, knowledge wise, and thats cause I don't have much sound knowledge, I just play what I think sounds good compared to the songs I cover, and focus more on the skill and technique, but I'm planning to get into another band, and I kind of need to focus more on live sound rather than bedroom sound.


bedroom sound and live band sound aren't the same thing. this is a common mistake when going from practicing by your self to a band. your EQ and gain structure will change once you get to band volumes. you are also trying to fit in sonically with other instruments as well. by itself your tone under those circumstances may not sound great but when combined with the rest of the band will sound good. skip the half stack and go for a decent combo (many have a speaker out so you can hook it up to a 4x12 if really needed. as mentioned for $500 you can find any number of decent tube amps used. get a couple of pedals and you will be good to go.
#20
Quote by Funk Monk
They were suggesting that the metal muff through a crappy amp won't sound good. The Metal Muff through a decent amp that likes pedals will sound different.

Don't go buying other pedals. What amp do you have?

Looking at buying a randall RX 120 RH, I've had personal expieriance with it, and even though others say its crap compared to what it could buy with more money (which is obvious it being only a $500 ss amp) It seemed to get a good crowd reaction with my old band (the other guitarist had it, and used it.)
I see like this, It's better to tell yourself you're not good enough, so you always try to get better and better, rather than to say you are good enough, and not improve. You're never good enough, and in that way, you'll be the best.
#21
You can buy a good used tube amp for $500, no need to settle for something worse. Again, what particular bands are you trying to sound like?
I'm Mitch, I like making guitar and bass gear reviews/comparisons on YouTube
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#22
I really want to go for a red jumpsuit apparatus sound for the band, but as for personally, I play everything from bon jovi to old bring me the horizon. The main reason I don't want a combo and would rather have a stack is so I can switch out the Head and cabs once I get more money and I could just buy a new head for $500 when I want an upgrade rather then also having to buy a cab.
I see like this, It's better to tell yourself you're not good enough, so you always try to get better and better, rather than to say you are good enough, and not improve. You're never good enough, and in that way, you'll be the best.
#23
Quote by dyl shermanator
I really want to go for a red jumpsuit apparatus sound for the band, but as for personally, I play everything from bon jovi to old bring me the horizon. The main reason I don't want a combo and would rather have a stack is so I can switch out the Head and cabs once I get more money and I could just buy a new head for $500 when I want an upgrade rather then also having to buy a cab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus Just reminded me of that haha

Stacks are really unnecessarily loud, you may as well get a combo. If you're playing live or whatever, you can get them miked up and no one will be able to tell the difference. It will be much more versatile and sure, when you've got a bit of money in the future, get a stack, but right now I can't imagine you would desperately need one

EDIT: oh didn't see there was another thread... I should probably hang around here more often
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Last edited by Lil Macker at Jan 1, 2015,
#24
Quote by dyl shermanator
I really want to go for a red jumpsuit apparatus sound for the band, but as for personally, I play everything from bon jovi to old bring me the horizon. The main reason I don't want a combo and would rather have a stack is so I can switch out the Head and cabs once I get more money and I could just buy a new head for $500 when I want an upgrade rather then also having to buy a cab.

If your hell bent on getting a 1/2 stack, you can get the VK100 head for $199 used at GC
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-VK100-Valve-King-100W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-110803549-i4110534.gc
And the VK 4x12 cabs run <$200 used here is one for $149
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-Valve-King-4X12-Slant-Guitar-Cabinet-110635678-i3993884.gc

So $500 is deff too much for that setup when even after taxes and shipping you'd be cheaper going though GC
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#25
Quote by Robbgnarly
If your hell bent on getting a 1/2 stack, you can get the VK100 head for $199 used at GC
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-VK100-Valve-King-100W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-110803549-i4110534.gc
And the VK 4x12 cabs run <$200 used here is one for $149
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-Valve-King-4X12-Slant-Guitar-Cabinet-110635678-i3993884.gc

So $500 is deff too much for that setup when even after taxes and shipping you'd be cheaper going though GC

Appreciate it, I've been searching and so far this is the best find.
I see like this, It's better to tell yourself you're not good enough, so you always try to get better and better, rather than to say you are good enough, and not improve. You're never good enough, and in that way, you'll be the best.
#26
If you get the Valveking also get an Overdrive pedal. Bad Monkey or Boss SD1. It gets heavy without one but in my opinion it sounds better if you turn off the built-in gain boost and hammer it with overdrive instead. Pedal settings: volume max and distortion off and tone controls to taste.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#27
well personally, for the money just get a used peavey like a JSX or a XXX, or my personal favorite, a marshall JCM 2000 DSL. they go for about 500 used if you look in the head form. you can easliy get away with a 2x12. you dont need a 4x12.

but really, the DSL40 combo is a steal, generally available on the used market, and still sound killer. just get that.

if you want a decent cab, it may be 500+ by itself even for a 2x12 with good speakers in it. a good 4x12, more. ball park about 300ish for a solid, all hardwood quality 2x12 with no speakers minimum...like avatar prices. i would say bump it up another 50-100 for a 4x12 with no speakers and then add 4 speakers (well really a 2 speaker increase over the 2x12 pricing). the speakers add up and it gets expensive quick.

until your ready to make that jump, just buy a DSL 40. probably the best sounding single purchase you can make that covers almost all genres of music well on a low budget. respectable cleans to respectable brootal high gain.

im a huge DSL fan. i think its one of the only amps made that can bridge that gap under 1000 bucks available in 40 wat combo, 50 watt and 100 watt. heck they even have the triple lead.
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#28
^ he wants the whole rig to be <$500, that removes the DSL 50/100 and the 40/20 watt combos are not the same amps
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#29
TS, here are a few amps you might look into -
Peavey:
5150/6505 212 OR 6505+ 112
JSX combo
Ultra (could possibly get a head and cheap cab, or a combo)
XXX (not my favorite but a decent option)
Vypyr Tube (both combo and heads available)

Carvin:
V3 combo or V3M
X100B (might not be quite what you are looking but it'll be fine with a Tubescreamer pedal)
Legacy (might be a bit smooth for, this is Steve Vai's sig amp)

Marshall:
New DSL series combos or old JCM2000 DSL 401

Krank:
If you are lucky, a Rev or Rev+ combo
A Rev Jr., a Nineteen80 Jr., or Krankenstein Jr. with a matching cab or other cab

Laney:
GH50L (if you are lucky, plus a cheap cab)
TT50 or TT100

Randall:
Possibly a used RM combo (these come with switchable preamp modules for different sounds)
RT50/RT503/RT100/RT103 (not great but cheap)
RH100/RH150/RH200/RH300 (solid state, but much better than the RX you were looking at)

Mesa/Boogie:
F30/F50
DC-2/DC-3/DC-5
If you are lucky a Rectoverb combo

This is off the top of my head, there are other great options too. Look on GC used for these. I understand your logic about the head and cab so you can upgrade the head later, but you want a decent cab, and that cab isn't too great, so you would probably just end up upgrading that anyways. If you get a combo you can upgrade the speakers if you must and keep the stock speakers so that way if you ever sell the amp you will still have the nice speakers in it.
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