#1
Hi Guys,

I am considering buying a new amp to replace my Peavey Vypyr Tube 120W, since I can find only one decent setting I like and yet it still misses something. Like the distortion is not clear enough, not enough note seperation, thus plucking or strumming chords are fizzy. Also can't find a decent crunch tone.

Now I am looking for an amp head and a cab (probably 2x12), because it seems easier to own a good cab and change out amp heads if i feel I want either something better or just something different. Also the weight of the amp and cab a piece will be less than the full weight of a combo.

I will use it to practice at home and hopefully somewhere in the future at band practices and gigs. Now I know that 120W, which I have right now, is way too much for at home, and it is... I can only turn it up to 2/13, but at the time this one was cheaper than the 60W version. So maybe this is why I can't find any nice settings, however that's why I either need something with less wattage or something with a variable output, which some of my own suggestions have.

I mainly play metal and rock/punk, to give some examples:
-Alter Bridge (Love)
-Metallica (Love)
-Rise Against
-Bullet for my Valentine
-Scorpions
-Three Days Grace

I really love the tone Alter Bridge has, mainly Mark Tremonti influences this and he owns a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier as his main tone. Of course this is too expensive so I looked up a few options:
-Bugera Trirec Infinium (has variable output wattage)
-Laney Ironheart 60W head (has variable output wattage)
-Blackstar maybe?

I really like the features of the bugera trirec infinium and the laney any experiences with these? I am going to test all the amps out before I buy them obviously, so I really am looking for suggestions and tips to pay attention to when buying an amp head.

I would also like some decent cleans, since I do use the clean channel often as well, however crunch and the more high gain has priority.

Now I see a lot of people use an Overdrive pedal to work the pre-amp/power tubes, for that nice natural overdrive. Would I need one? Or would, like the Bugera which has a build in boost, be enough?

On the other end I have no idea kind of Cabinet I should get, just like with amps and guitars, the price difference is significant and I can't tell how much I should spent on one? I really am unexprienced in this area. Also should I get a 2x12? or something else? Suggestions?

I don't know if 800 in total as a budget will be enough, since I guessed to spend 200 on the cab. However there is a deal right now for the Bugera Trirec for 420 so then I would have some room.

Your help will be very much appreciated!!
Thanks
Last edited by Psy8cho at Jan 12, 2015,
#2
i wouldn't worry too much about variable wattage for high gain tones

an overdrive doesn't work the power tubes, it boosts the preamp tubes

i've never tried bugeras. they don't have the best rep for reliability, at least judging by online posts. but

cabinet it depends. i'd try to get one with known good speakers (e.g. celestion vintage 30s- bear in mind not all celestions are good, and the ones in cheapo cabs are generally there to sucker you into buying the thing). better-made cabs sound better too, you generally want them to be made of plywood (not mdf/particleboard etc.), that's generally another sign that the cab should be at least half-decent.
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#3
Thnx for your reply, but what do you mean with I shouldn't worry too much about variable wattage? I thought generally that the nice overdriven tube tone comes from driving the power tubes, hence turning the volume up and variable wattage allows this at bedroom levels or any kind of environment.

Yes an overdrive drives the preamp tubes, but after that the input signal into the power tubes should also be a little bit higher.

And yes I heard some bad things about Bugera too, but from what I understand these were some older models and new new models should be good again.

Any suggestions for cabs? Like maybe a link to thomann.de?
#4
http://www.thomann.de/gb/jet_city_amplification_100hdm.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/jet_city_amplification_jca50h.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/digitech_bad_monkey.htm

Done.

Bugera's still have tons of reliability problems, there was a a phase where there was a couple of weeks where I'd see a Bugera problem thread every couple of days. Admittedly we're one forum, but I'd rather not take the risk if that was me. Someone will be able to tell you why the newer ones where failing, but the older ones failed because of a plastic part that melted when the amp got hot.

The amp's I linked have got really good build quality, cheaper than the bugera's and IMO they sound just as good, if not better. If the 100HDM is too much, get the 50W version. I just like the grill on the 100HDM more
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Last edited by Fisheth24 at Jan 12, 2015,
#6
Thnx for the list, I am going to check them out!

I live in the Netherlands.

Any other options?
#7
Quote by Psy8cho
Thnx for your reply, but what do you mean with I shouldn't worry too much about variable wattage? I thought generally that the nice overdriven tube tone comes from driving the power tubes
Not high gain tones.
Sounds you're describing are mostly heard in classic rock and blues records.

High gain?
Big power amp, lotsa pre gain and a boost.
Quote by Psy8cho
Yes an overdrive drives the preamp tubes, but after that the input signal into the power tubes should also be a little bit higher.
Not much if the pre tubes are already distorting your signal like hell, which they are if you're producing a metal tone.
You're gonna get a hell of a more noticeable effect if you simply turn the master volume up.
Quote by Psy8cho
Any suggestions for cabs? Like maybe a link to thomann.de?
The harley benton G212 vintage Fisheth suggested is what you wanna get considering how much you wanna spend.

I'd either get the JCA100HDM ('cause of the bigger power section and the depth knob, which you could also add on the smaller ones but you would need a bit of exp in modding stuff) or a used ENGL fireball or powerball (or powerball II if you can find a deal good enough).
Name's Luca.

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#8
The harley benton G212 vintage Fisheth suggested is what you wanna get considering how much you wanna spend.

I'd either get the JCA100HDM ('cause of the bigger power section and the depth knob, which you could also add on the smaller ones but you would need a bit of exp in modding stuff) or a used ENGL fireball or powerball (or powerball II if you can find a deal good enough).


Well like I said I don't know how much I should spend on a cab, maybe 200 is not enough for a good cab, what price would you suggest for these kind of amps and maybe future amps?

I don't understand how the bigger power section (I think you mean the powertubes, and thus the 100Watt) is going to help my tone if I can't turn up the volume to make use of that? I am fairly new to tube amp as the Peavey vypyr Tube is the first one I have owned. So maybe I am missing something here, please enlighten me

As for the ENGL fireball, which one are you suggesting? The 60W (E625) or the 100W (E635)?

Btw what about brands like Blackstar, Randall and Orange, do these have something to offer for me?
Last edited by Psy8cho at Jan 12, 2015,
#9
Quote by Psy8cho
Well like I said I don't know how much I should spend on a cab, maybe 200 is not enough for a good cab, what price would you suggest for these kind of amps and maybe future amps?
Price isn't really indicative of quality in this field.
Considering the budget you have, that cab in particular is your best option - the speakers alone are worth about as much as the whole cab, the build quality is good enough and the sound's good enough.

My favorite cabs for this kinda stuff is the orange PPC's, but YMMV.
Quote by Psy8cho
I don't understand how the bigger power section (I think you mean the powertubes, and thus the 100Watt) is going to help my tone if I can't turn up the volume to make use of that?
I'm under the impression that you are using the wrong mentality here - power sections are made to amplify a sound without distorting it, not to distort the sound at a reasonable volume.

Now, we're talking guitar amps and things are a bit different, but as long as you want to play metal you don't want to distort anything in the power section.
If you want to get any of the metal tones heard on the records by the bands you listed (and the vast majority of the metal bands) at least.

So in short if you have a bigger power section you can turn up the volume more without having the signal distorted by the power section.
Quote by Psy8cho
As for the ENGL fireball, which one are you suggesting? The 60W (E625) or the 100W (E635)?
I'd get the bigger one, but they're just about the same so simply get the bigger one you can get for the money.
Quote by Psy8cho
Btw what about brands like Blackstar, Randall and Orange, do these have something to offer for me?
Blackstar is dodgy with its marketing policy so I really really really don't like their amps.
More of a moral stand than anything else, and the series one 100 I tried sounded good enough.

Randall makes relatively cheap solid state amps that are good if you like that particular very angry sound, but that doesn't resemble the bands you listed.
Then there are the tube amps which are also pretty angry.
They would work but I'd take an ENGL over them.

Orange makes stuff good for sludge and doom if ya ask me.
Big sounding stuff, but not the kind I'd get for alter bridge and metallica.
Think the kinda sound heard in mastodon's records.

Now that I think of it, you sure you can't find a used single recto or rectoverb or tremverb for around €500?
Name's Luca.

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#10
For Randall you can get an RD45 or an RD20. They are fairly new but sound great.


From Orange you have the CR120 or one of the smaller AD(I think) combos. The CR is solid state and Orange market it as a Rockerverb without tubes.
The AD30 I don't know much about.

From Blackstar you have the Ht series. Something like a HT-20. They sound decent but get a lot of shit around here for not being all tube, while Blackstar markets them as all tube.

The Harley Benon Vintage is probably the best cab in the budget you gave.
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#12
Quote by Psy8cho
I can look around for those recto's, there is also a
mini rectifier http://www.thomann.de/nl/mesa_boogie_mini_rectifier_twentyfive_top.htm for around that same price is that something to look out for as well?

Kinda too much, don't you think? In the US you can buy a Full sizes Rectifier for that money.
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Last edited by Fryderyczek at Jan 12, 2015,
#13
Quote by Psy8cho
I can look around for those recto's, there is also a
mini rectifier http://www.thomann.de/nl/mesa_boogie_mini_rectifier_twentyfive_top.htm for around that same price is that something to look out for as well?


Far too much, can get a used Rec for that price. At least you can in the UK.
Bass Gear:

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Ashdown CTM 100
#14
For home use a Line 6 POD HD500X may be a better fit. This can get you "loud" tones via headphones or about any speaker. If your Vypyr has a effects loop you can plug the pod into the return and use the vypyr as a speaker or just set the vypyr to a clean setting and plug the pod straight in.

When you start playing out you can use the pod for the effects and leverage your investment.
Guitars:
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Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
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#15
Quote by Psy8cho
(a) Thnx for your reply, but what do you mean with I shouldn't worry too much about variable wattage? I thought generally that the nice overdriven tube tone comes from driving the power tubes, hence turning the volume up and variable wattage allows this at bedroom levels or any kind of environment.

(b) Yes an overdrive drives the preamp tubes, but after that the input signal into the power tubes should also be a little bit higher.

(c) And yes I heard some bad things about Bugera too, but from what I understand these were some older models and new new models should be good again.

(d) Any suggestions for cabs? Like maybe a link to thomann.de?


(a) for more vintage tones you normally want power tube breakup but for modern metal tones you normally want preamp distortion. so the wattage isn't as important. in fact you could make a case that more wattage actually helps with higher gain tones since power tube distortion isn't really tight enough for modern metal tones (though that's not to say they don't sound better turned up a bit).

the other thing is, in a home environment, even 5 watts tube is too loud. you can't turn up 5w tube in a home environment (at least, most home environments) to get power tube breakup anyway. So you have an amp which is less suitable for what you want which you can't crank anyway. And in my (limited) experience, and somewhat counterintuitively, the higher wattage amps often sound better when turned way down to home volumes than the low wattage amps do.

(b) That's not how it works (at least I don't think it is ). If you hit the input of an already heavily-overdriven tube amp it just overdrives more. I think. Even if it does up the output slightly, it's making very little if any impact on the power tubes if you're still turned way down. It'd be no different in turning the master volume up from 1 to 1.5, where the power tubes still aren't doing much.

(c) it's your money and your risk. I've never tried any bugera amps so (not that trying something in a shop will tell you how it'll fare 3 years down the line anyway.)

(d) fisheth had some good links for you there, he nailed it.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Wauw thnx for the great input and especially all the explainations that go with it! I totally missed the deal about driving the power tubes and the wattage then, at least in the case of high gain tones. So thnx for the explainations, much appreciated. I always like to learn new stuff

I already have an Digitech RP355, don't know if the line 6 POD HD500X is much better, but I didn't like that multi effects pedal, also don't like the interface that way. Also I guess I like the idea of a real amp instead of a pedal. But if you guys are all of the opinion that would be a good replacement for any of the other amps suggested, then yes I will check that out as well.

Oh a preference I forgot to mention in the TS, I like seperate EQ for the different channels an amp has as well as a presence control for more control of the tone. Although I never had a presence knob, the seems handy :P
Last edited by Psy8cho at Jan 12, 2015,
#17
No problem

Don't get me wrong- high gain amps sound better turned up too, but it's not just as important as with lower gain amps/more vintage-style tones. and wattage doesn't seem to be the important factor when turned *way* down (to bedroom level).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?