#1
hello guys

im learning modes ,

the thing is ,

for example , im playing A c major scale

if i want to play c dorian ,

ill look for the major scale wich has the c as the second note ,

wich is B flat ,

i get it ,

but the major scale of b flat has different notes ,

so how am i playing c dorian while im playing totaly different notes of the c major scale ?
#2
The notes of the C major scale are C D E F G A B C

The notes of the C dorian scale are C D Eb F G A Bb C

When you're playing C major you're playing C major and when you're playing C dorian you're playing C dorian.

I think maybe you're confused because C dorian has the same notes as Bb major, but it starts on C. Thinking about modes as being from a parent scale is dumb.
#5
Dorian is like a C minor scale but with a major sixth.

C natural minor = C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
C Dorian = C D Eb F G A Bb C
Si
#6
Think C dorian as a variation of C minor scale. If you look at them, you may see that C dorian is only one note different from C minor.

C minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb
C major: C D E F G A B

As you can see, in C dorian the 6th note is A, in C minor it's Ab. And that's the only difference between them. You can also see that C major and C dorian are 2 notes different. C dorian has Eb and Bb, C major has E and B. So the 3rd and 7th notes of the scale are different. Seeing connections like this between "parallel scales" (scales that have the same root note) is pretty important when it comes to understanding how they sound like.

Here are all of the modes: (Just ignore locrian - it can be used as a chord scale, but music "in locrian" doesn't exist, or at least it's really rare because it has a really unstable sound because it lacks the perfect fifth.)

C phrygian: C Db Eb F G Ab Bb (think as a minor scale with a minor 2nd)
C minor: C D Eb F G Ab Bb
C dorian: C D Eb F G A Bb (think as a minor scale with a major 6th)
C mixolydian: C D E F G A Bb (think as a major scale with a minor 7th)
C major: C D E F G A B
C lydian: C D E F# G A B (think as a major scale with an augmented 4th)

If it's easier to think in tabs, here's one octave of all of the modes (in C):

C phrygian:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------3-5-
D|-------3-5-6-----
A|-3-4-6-----------
E|-----------------

C minor:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------3-5-
D|-------3-5-6-----
A|-3-5-6-----------
E|-----------------

C dorian:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------3-5-
D|-------3-5-7-----
A|-3-5-6-----------
E|-----------------

C mixolydian:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------3-5-
D|-------3-5-7-----
A|-3-5-7-----------
E|-----------------

C major:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------4-5-
D|-------3-5-7-----
A|-3-5-7-----------
E|-----------------

C lydian:

e|-----------------
B|-----------------
G|-------------4-5-
D|-------4-5-7-----
A|-3-5-7-----------
E|-----------------


Remember that these are movable patterns so if you move the C dorian shape two frets higher, it becomes D dorian.

Of course it is possible to also think C dorian as being the same notes as Bb major. But at least to me that doesn't really tell about the sound. To me it is easier to think it through C minor, because it sounds pretty close to C minor. Before I realized this, I didn't even understand the modes properly. And this helped me understand them.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jan 24, 2015,
#7
wow , thank you ,

but you , as a musician , do you use modes ? i mean , when i should play them ?
#8
Yes. Start learning about Chord Scale Theory.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#9
I use them when I have to. Just like you use major and minor scales when you have to. Listen to the backing track and play what fits it. Look at the chords. The backing track is what tells you which scales to use.

Most of the time they are used as scales. You hear dorian and mixolydian scales a lot in rock music, even though the music itself is not "in dorian" or "in mixolydian". But the scales are used a lot. There are songs that are in a mode, not in a key (that's called "modal music"). But most of the time today they are used as scales in tonal music (for example it's very common to use dorian scale in a minor song).

Chord Scale Theory is good if you are going to play jazz or something with more complex chord progressions. CST is not the same as modes. It uses scales that have mode names. The point of CST is that every chord has a scale that works perfectly over it. For example if you have a G7 chord, you can play G mixolydian over it and it will work well over it. Jet Penguin posted a thread about CST, you may want to check it out if you are interested.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#10
Exactly. CST is not the same as modes at all, but for practicality's sake (I'm assuming you aren't writing classical music), the way you will apply modes to your playing is in line with CST.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#11
I think it's good to know about modes, have a feel for how they sound and maybe even use them to learn your way around your neck.

HOWEVER, in my opinion it is most important to learn music by copying your heroes. The knowledge that I stated above is meant to help you understand what is going on in the music, and will therefore help you remember and apply it.
#12
I rarely "use" modes. How much you will use them and want to practice them a lot depends on what music you want to play.

I find there are lots of other things I would get down first, before really internalizing modes. But it is good to at least understand what they are, and hear them. It's not everything that lends itself well to wielding modes really.
#13
Quote by Jet Penguin
Exactly. CST is not the same as modes at all, but for practicality's sake (I'm assuming you aren't writing classical music), the way you will apply modes to your playing is in line with CST.

Yeah, that's true.

TS, remember that modes aren't the holy grail of music or anything like that. Guitarists are obsessed with them, I don't know why (maybe it has to do with guitar being such a visual instrument and it's easy to link the mode names to different shapes). They aren't that important. And as I said, they can be understood as just being variations of the minor and major scales.

If you see a chord progression that uses the dorian scale, you don't need to think "that's dorian". Just look at the chord tones and use the key scale and accidentals (if you are in a minor key, use the minor scale and if you are in a major key, use the major scale and add accidentals depending on the chords you are playing over).

For example if we have a progression like Em-G-D-A (very common in rock music), it's in Em but E dorian scale would work over it better than E minor because of the A major chord that has a C# in it (and E minor scale has a C in it). But you could just think it as E minor and accidentals. Look at the chord tones and figure out if there are notes that don't belong to the key scale. As I said, there is a C# that is not part of the E minor scale. So when you are playing over the A major chord, just remember to avoid playing C over it or change the C to C#. C# will actually work over all of the chords in the progression. You don't need to play the C natural over any of the chords because none of the chords have a C natural in them.

So if the names are hard to remember, you don't need to memorize them. You just need to understand what notes to use over which chords (and that's not that hard - just look at the chord tones and figure out the key you are in and use the chord tones and the key scale. And if there are any notes that clash with the chord tones - for example the scale has a C and the chord has a C# - avoid them or change the scale to fit the chord by adding chord tones). Sound is more important than the names. I always think dorian as a minor scale with a major 6th and not as a whole different scale.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jan 26, 2015,
#14
Quote by ouchies

HOWEVER, in my opinion it is most important to learn music by copying your heroes.


I dunno about that, that'd likely just result in taking an awful lot of drugs

Seriously, though, I agree. I'm always in favour of copying the people who are doing it right.
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