#1
Hi everyone.

Have you ever had a chance to (at least somewhat) directly compare the Eminence Swamp Thang and the Celestion G12-K100 speakers? I wonder which one of these two could sound better as a replacement speaker in a Fender Blues Junior III.... The bottom line is to add more bottom end to that small American boxy combo. Or do you have even better speaker tips, that would do that job - adding more lows to the B-Jr, without completely screwing up the rest of the frequency range? Preferably Celestion or Eminence, cos any other speaker brand is very hard to get here where I am, or is very expensive.

Thank you all in advance!
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#2
I'd try the Eminence EM12, it is a EVM 12L speaker clone and it has a very good lowend and still retains mids and highs.

The Eminence Delta proA is also a speaker to consider
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#3
Quote by Robbgnarly
I'd try the Eminence EM12, it is a EVM 12L speaker clone and it has a very good lowend and still retains mids and highs.

The Eminence Delta proA is also a speaker to consider


Thanx! I found the EM12 in Eminence´s current lineup and yes, that big ass magnet has a very sinister look to it....

But I haven´t found that Delta proA - is that the full complete name of that speaker?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#4
www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_Pro_12A

it is considered a PA speaker, but it works with guitar just fine

I'd probably get the EM12 because that is soposed to be more like the EVM 12L
2002 PRS CE22
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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#5
you can also try a Weber gray wolf or silver bell.

i have owned both the G12K and the swamp thang, but i have not had the opportunity to directly compare them. but from my experience (and i could only choose those speakers) i would most likely prefer a swamp thang for the application you are using it for.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#6
I have just checked the prices in the shops, that deliver to my area without excesive shipping costs and found out, that the EM12 is twice the price of the Swamp Thang or Governor or Cannabis Rex or most other Eminence speakers. Now: is it really that good, or just that expensive?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#7
Quote by Airfish
I have just checked the prices in the shops, that deliver to my area without excesive shipping costs and found out, that the EM12 is twice the price of the Swamp Thang or Governor or Cannabis Rex or most other Eminence speakers. Now: is it really that good, or just that expensive?


it's good but not something that blows the other speakers away.

the only EVM-12L's i have gotten ahold of have been in the used market. i can't stand to spend almost 300 USD on a speaker.

they are a solid speaker, good construction, high power handling, can take the mistreatment of gigging. they have always been part of the 'upgrade' package. it can justify it's higher price, but it is still overpriced.

the EVM-12L has a distinctive sound, some people really like it and some don't like it that much.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#8
I have a pair of Swamp Thang speakers paired with two Texas Heat mounted in a cross pattern in a 4X12, when hooked up to my 6505+ head or my Mesa Roadster 2X12 combo instead of the V30s that come in it and the Eminence Patriots sound like beasts and they are built like tanks.



My buddy had a Krank 4X12 with 4 Texas heats and my cab pretty much owned it.
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#9
Eminence makes my favorites for sure. I think it's really a matter of preference though, all Eminence speakers I have played have a certain "American" characteristic about them, a certain warmness to the sound that I just don't get with Celestions.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#10
Yep, that´s what I thought about Eminence in general, too: they sound more "American" than Celestions. And in theory, and also by manufacturer´s description, the "most American of Americans" should be the Swamp Thang. That´s why I asked you guys, because theory and manufacturer´s blah-blah-yada-yada is one thing and practical experience is another one.... So by now the Swamp Thang got so many votes from you, that it really seems to be my way to go: to add more bottom end and more American character to the Blues Jr. So thank you all again, by now. But if you add even more experience, it´s still very welcome!
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#11
^^The only experience I can offer is that a Swamp Thang will do exactly what you want.

It has a nice, chunky low-end, and the mids are very controlled, which I think could lend itself to reducing the "boxiness" you described which comes from having a small enclosure. I've found that larger cabs can handle more mids without sounding boxy. That said, the ST has mids, they're just not emphasized the way they are in some speakers. The top-end is there, but it's thick and musical as opposed to harsh. It's a great choice, man!
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#12
Quote by Airfish
Hi everyone.

Have you ever had a chance to (at least somewhat) directly compare the Eminence Swamp Thang and the Celestion G12-K100 speakers? I wonder which one of these two could sound better as a replacement speaker in a Fender Blues Junior III.... The bottom line is to add more bottom end to that small American boxy combo. Or do you have even better speaker tips, that would do that job - adding more lows to the B-Jr, without completely screwing up the rest of the frequency range? Preferably Celestion or Eminence, cos any other speaker brand is very hard to get here where I am, or is very expensive.

Thank you all in advance!


I think that big tight bottom you are looking for has more to do with cab design than speaker choice. The Blues Jr. has a small open back cab and that limits bass output. If it were mine I would leave the amp stock but add a nice Avatar closed back ext cab loaded with a G12H30. This will give you a quarter stack and a nice big chunky bottom. I did this for a while with my Mesa to good effect.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#13
Quote by Cajundaddy
I think that big tight bottom you are looking for has more to do with cab design than speaker choice. The Blues Jr. has a small open back cab and that limits bass output. If it were mine I would leave the amp stock but add a nice Avatar closed back ext cab loaded with a G12H30. This will give you a quarter stack and a nice big chunky bottom. I did this for a while with my Mesa to good effect.


AH, the voice of experience!

You're not going to get more bass output by simply swapping out the speaker. You'll just change the tenor of the slightly boxy sound you're getting now.

The Avatar closed back extension cabinet will help out whatever speaker you put in there.

Here's another possibility for an extension speaker:

Mesa used the EV TL806 speaker cabinet plans to build their Mesa Thiele cabinets for the EV-L speakers.



This .pdf has the plans:

http://www.carltonguitars.com.au/resources/docs/TL806_builders_plans.pdf

You could easily find a carpenter to build you that cabinet and then use either the EV-L speaker OR the Eminence Delta ProA (which was designed to be a replacement for the EV when it was discontinued for a while). Both of these speakers are excellent guitar speakers, but are designed with a resonant frequency below the low E on a guitar, and they'll definitely give you a LOT more bottom end. Celestions don't work as well in this kind of a cabinet because their resonant frequency is often an octave above those of the EV or ProA. You don't have to cover these cabinets with tolex; I've seen them very well done with a coating of Line-X pickup truck bed liner or Duratex.

One caution, however. The cabinets themselves are heavy, but coupled with the big magnets on the EV or Delta ProA speakers, they're eyebrow-raising. Disconnect the internal speaker on your Fender and use JUST the extension cabinet, however. Bottom end requires power, and you'll need every bit of it focused on that extension speaker.
#14
As for an extension cab: Thanx a lot guys for your advice, I really appreciate it, it sounds like that would be the best way to go. But not for me. I already have my main rig, with two custom-made 2x12s and I am satisfied with that.... for now....
I want the Blues Jr. as my second alternative, mostly as a home practice amp. But still, I don´t want to accept the stock quality of its tone and I at least want to get as much extra bass, as is possible by means of changing the speaker, nothing more drastic. I know I can´t expect miracles, but lots of people have already confirmed their positive experience with the Swamp Thang, so I would most probably go for that one.
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jan 29, 2015,
#16
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
soooooo

...what kind of music to you play?


blues, blues-rock, classical rock, southern rock, hard-rock, metal, hard-core.... according to momentary mood.... and mostly rhythm guitar, not too much lead stuff....
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#17
Quote by Airfish
blues, blues-rock, classical rock, southern rock, hard-rock, metal, hard-core.... according to momentary mood.... and mostly rhythm guitar, not too much lead stuff....

I ask because I now see you have a 'What Amp' thread.

I wouldn't lock yourself into a Blues Jr or a DSL.

Blues Jr is definitely a cool amp but will struggle with metal and hardcore.

Most folks here will tell you to steer clear of the new DSLs.

Also, I don't recommend to people to get too hung up on speaker replacements until they have spent some time with the new amp stock.

I also see that you primarily use rack gear. Are you just really looking at a practice combo amp to mess around with?

I'm sure people are getting tired of hearing this but I highly recommend that you check out a Peavey Vypry 60 tube amp if you can. Modelers have come a long way. It is not perfect for mid-gain tones but it will do a nice job. Going from the jangly Twin model to the brutal Diezel model is hella fun.

That said - there is some info the R&R Sticky on how to get good amp advice. Essentially -

Budget
Genres
New or Used
Home or Gig
Location
Current Gear

(you've got most of that)

aka: Start over
#18
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I ask because I now see you have a 'What Amp' thread.

I wouldn't lock yourself into a Blues Jr or a DSL.

Blues Jr is definitely a cool amp but will struggle with metal and hardcore.

Most folks here will tell you to steer clear of the new DSLs.

Also, I don't recommend to people to get too hung up on speaker replacements until they have spent some time with the new amp stock.

I also see that you primarily use rack gear. Are you just really looking at a practice combo amp to mess around with?

I'm sure people are getting tired of hearing this but I highly recommend that you check out a Peavey Vypry 60 tube amp if you can. Modelers have come a long way. It is not perfect for mid-gain tones but it will do a nice job. Going from the jangly Twin model to the brutal Diezel model is hella fun.

That said - there is some info the R&R Sticky on how to get good amp advice. Essentially -

Budget
Genres
New or Used
Home or Gig
Location
Current Gear

(you've got most of that)

aka: Start over



I´m not locking myself into those two, I just can get them pretty cheap - the Jr., even extremely cheap - the DSL.

And why would people recommend me to avoid the DSLs?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jan 29, 2015,
#19
Quote by Evilnine
I have a pair of Swamp Thang speakers paired with two Texas Heat mounted in a cross pattern in a 4X12, when hooked up to my 6505+ head or my Mesa Roadster 2X12 combo instead of the V30s that come in it and the Eminence Patriots sound like beasts and they are built like tanks.



My buddy had a Krank 4X12 with 4 Texas heats and my cab pretty much owned it.

I have a Krank rev 412 with V12's and it is pretty awesome and can hang with any cab doing hi-gain I have ever tried mesa, Vader and Mills included. but I've never been a fan of the TH
But my speakers have a small sticker on the side of the magnet that says V1216 and not the cool sticker on the back of the magnet

I have a JCM2000 DSL100 it is a great amp, the new DSL line sucks in comparison
2002 PRS CE22
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Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jan 29, 2015,
#20
^ I quite like the texas heat- but more for a range of tones than the out-and-out brootalz stuff. not as fussed on the swamp thang. the combo sounds very chunky and dark and modern- as i've said before, not certain i'm sold on it but it sounds pretty different from anything else i have so i hang onto it for now.

i really like the v12 with my jet city.

Quote by dementiacaptain
Eminence makes my favorites for sure. I think it's really a matter of preference though, all Eminence speakers I have played have a certain "American" characteristic about them, a certain warmness to the sound that I just don't get with Celestions.


Yeah there's a slight "american-ness" to them, as you said, even with the supposedly more british-sounding ones.

I'm not sure I'd call it warmer (not sure what I would call it... more lower mids?) but I agree there's a difference.

I don't really have a favourite when it comes to manufacturers, I like most of the well-regarded ones I've tried.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
So now the international definition of American is "fat,round,dark"?
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#22
that's racist
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
that's racist

Why because I said dark?

Be quiet. be my friend and have a Royale with cheese on the fat,round,dark gentleman

I may have blonde hair, but I'm as dark as any Cuban
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
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MXR Smart Gate
#24
Quote by Robbgnarly
So now the international definition of American is "fat,round,dark"?


No, he misspelled "dork."
#25
Quote by Airfish
I´m not locking myself into those two, I just can get them pretty cheap - the Jr., even extremely cheap - the DSL.

And why would people recommend me to avoid the DSLs?

The new DSLs are arguably not as good as the older ones.

Quote by Robbgnarly
So now the international definition of American is "fat,round,dark"?

#26
i would like to add that speaker preference (and cab choice for that matter) is heavily subjective. i try not to give my speaker advice as sure-thing or silver-bullet answers, cuz i know what i like and you might not share that preference.

in my experience no one will ever really know what speakers they like until they actually play them. advice is a great way to get some idea of what to start looking at, but i never really got to know until i put the speaker(s) in a band situation.

Quote by Robbgnarly
So now the international definition of American is "fat,round,dark"?


i am willing to bet most people wouldn't be able to repeatedly pick the 'american sounding' speaker in a double blind.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#27
Quote by Robbgnarly
Why because I said dark?

Be quiet. be my friend and have a Royale with cheese on the fat,round,dark gentleman

I may have blonde hair, but I'm as dark as any Cuban


i was only joking

Quote by gumbilicious
i would like to add that speaker preference (and cab choice for that matter) is heavily subjective. i try not to give my speaker advice as sure-thing or silver-bullet answers, cuz i know what i like and you might not share that preference.

in my experience no one will ever really know what speakers they like until they actually play them. advice is a great way to get some idea of what to start looking at, but i never really got to know until i put the speaker(s) in a band situation.


Yeah. and you really need to try a bunch of speakers with the same amp to really start to hear what they're doing to the overall tone.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 30, 2015,
#28
^ your joking, I'm not. I look like Thor with a really good tan
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#29
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?