#1
I've been looking for used gear and come to this thought process: any reason I should spend the $800+ on a good head and cabinet combo instead of grabbing a used 400w active loudspeaker for ~$250 and using my pedalboard with a cabinet tone simulator for distortion and stuff?

Maybe I just don't know enough but it seems to me the pedalboard and loudspeaker combo is the way to go. Input welcome.
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
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#2
Depends entirely on how good the amp simulation on the pedalboard is.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
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Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#3
What kind of pedalboard are we talking? If it's a POD HD I'd say go for it. Also, you don't need a cabinet sim unless you are going into a computer. Your PA is your cabinet.

I mean, different strokes for different folks. Sometimes a head and cab is just overall easier because of abundance. I think I spent a total of $700 on my had and cab. The cheapest "good" amp sim is probably going to be a POD HD, maybe also a Boss GT, either of which run you around 300-500. Then a powered PA is 250, as you said. You're at the same pricepoint.

I mean, it is actually a trend now for bands to go ampless. Twelve Foot Ninja is the perfect example of what you are thinking. They go Guitar>POD HD500> front of house (PA). But Periphery before they did power amps and cabs was doing Axe FX (a $2500 unit) direct front of house.

Just sometimes the tone of a real amp is preferred, that simple.
Gibson RD Silverburst w/ Lace Dissonant Aggressors (SOLD)
Electra Omega Prime Ceruse
Fender Franken-Jag Bass

Amps and the like:
Laney VH100R
Seismic Luke 2x12
Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#4
All my amps make the amp simulations in my GT-100 look like a toy. I would only use the amp sims in the GT-100 as a last resort because everything else had blown up. Chalk and cheese, it really is. Had I wanted amp sims, I would have bought a HD500X.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#5
A multi-fx board like the POD HD500X is meant to go straight to a PA, so of course it will sound good as such. If you have that and you are satisfied (or want to buy one), then sure go for the PA system.

If you're using individual stompboxes, there is a high potential that it can sound bad straight to a PA. Cab sims can help, but there is nothing like a real amp with an FX loop.

Grab a nice combo tube amp (head connected to the cab internally, not separate) with an FX loop utilized, and mic it with an SM57 to a PA system.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 25, 2015,
#6
Quote by Cathbard
All my amps make the amp simulations in my GT-100 look like a toy. I would only use the amp sims in the GT-100 as a last resort because everything else had blown up. Chalk and cheese, it really is. Had I wanted amp sims, I would have bought a HD500X.


Emphasis on the maybe
Gibson RD Silverburst w/ Lace Dissonant Aggressors (SOLD)
Electra Omega Prime Ceruse
Fender Franken-Jag Bass

Amps and the like:
Laney VH100R
Seismic Luke 2x12
Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#7
Right now I've got a DigiTech RP100 and it sounds uber cheap but my Rockman-imitation EQ setting makes anything it processes sound like a lo-fi 70s stack. It's actually rather fun makin' that retro Boston vinyl sound...

So the PA idea sounds versatile and I like that. PLUS I'd be able to use the PA with my bass as well.
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
-><-
#8
If you like the amp sims that you've got then it would be a fine way to go. Personally, I wouldn't do it with an RP100 but I'm very fussy about my tone. I don't even think that Pods are good enough yet - but that's just me.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#9
Quote by offrhode92
Right now I've got a DigiTech RP100 and it sounds uber cheap but my Rockman-imitation EQ setting makes anything it processes sound like a lo-fi 70s stack. It's actually rather fun makin' that retro Boston vinyl sound...

So the PA idea sounds versatile and I like that. PLUS I'd be able to use the PA with my bass as well.
Oh no. I have the RP-155 and it sounds bad with line outs. If you're going to get a PA system and use the RP100, get a cab sim direct box (I use Behringer Ultra-G) and a solid state amp like the Roland Cube (I use the 20X) to give you some natural texture.

If it sounds good, go for it. But I feel you'll grow out of that satisfaction very quickly, which is why I suggest investing in a nice amp. You should be able to snag a decent PA as well. Or get a POD and the PA.
Last edited by Will Lane at Jan 25, 2015,
#10
Quote by Will Lane
Oh no. I have the RP-155 and it sounds bad with line outs. If you're going to get a PA system and use the RP100, get a cab sim direct box (I use Behringer Ultra-G) and a solid state amp like the Roland Cube (I use the 20X) to give you some natural texture.

If it sounds good, go for it. But I feel you'll grow out of that satisfaction very quickly, which is why I suggest investing in a nice amp. You should be able to snag a decent PA as well. Or get a POD and the PA.


Yeah the RP100 doesn't impress me. But it works for now. The Cube 20X is high on my list of likes. I could get one of thems to use for home practice and then put it in my effects chain when running through a PA.

The Boss Blues Driver and DigiTech Screamin' Blues have my attention too. The DT has a cabinet simulator output but I have my doubts as to how good it sounds.
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
-><-
#11
Quote by Cathbard
If you like the amp sims that you've got then it would be a fine way to go. Personally, I wouldn't do it with an RP100 but I'm very fussy about my tone. I don't even think that Pods are good enough yet - but that's just me.


I have to get you to try one with one of the Two-Notes Torpedo C.A.B. OTOH, that gizmo is $549 all by itself.
#12
Quote by offrhode92
I've been looking for used gear and come to this thought process: any reason I should spend the $800+ on a good head and cabinet combo instead of grabbing a used 400w active loudspeaker for ~$250 and using my pedalboard with a cabinet tone simulator for distortion and stuff?

Maybe I just don't know enough but it seems to me the pedalboard and loudspeaker combo is the way to go. Input welcome.


I've got tube gear (both combos and head/cab setups) and love it.
OTOH, I'm mostly using Pods and full-range speakers these days.

I actually transitioned by using all tube preamps (Mesa Triaxis, Carvin Quad-X mostly) with (at first) tube power amps and standard guitar speakers. Moved from there to outputting directly to PA and full-range speaker systems, then tossed the tube power amps and went with solid state (lighter, more powerful). From there, Pods and an Axe-FX Ultra (which stays at home) into both PA and the solid state power amps and full-range speakers.

If you spend enough time with these systems, you'll get all the tone you need. There's a difference between playing in a bedroom/practice facility and playing out with a tube amp. Once you get about 10 rows into an audience in a small venue, all the time you've put into getting tone with that tube amp is lost, as room and audience acoustics change it all. Miking a tube amp (combo OR head/cab) means losing almost all of any cabinet characteristics (you're an inch or two from a single speaker cone, after all) and having a mike, a preamp, the mixer and the speakers dictate what your audience will hear. So eliminating the mike and adding a cab simulation that actually makes it into the PA makes a bit more sense to me.

And then there's versatility. If you have one sound and do one thing, you're good with one amp/cab. If you need versatility, the multi system just works so well.

And finally, there's weight, size and complexity (as well as "points of possible failure"). A 50 lb head and an 80 lb 4x12 stuffed into the back of a Honda Civic is a different thing from carrying your entire rig in one trip into the venue.
#13
Quote by offrhode92
I've been looking for used gear and come to this thought process: any reason I should spend the $800+ on a good head and cabinet combo instead of grabbing a used 400w active loudspeaker for ~$250 and using my pedalboard with a cabinet tone simulator for distortion and stuff?

Maybe I just don't know enough but it seems to me the pedalboard and loudspeaker combo is the way to go. Input welcome.


For many players I think the day has come for this. It really depends on if you are more comfortable in the analog or digital realm. I use both and it really depends on my needs. A straight guitar blues tone works better for me through analog amps and tubes. If I need lots of effects to cover U2 type stuff I go with a Tonelab/EV powered wedge. I am pretty old school and digital stuff still vexes me sometimes but I can get good results either way. Use the best tools for the job at hand.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#14
Quote by dspellman
I have to get you to try one with one of the Two-Notes Torpedo C.A.B. OTOH, that gizmo is $549 all by itself.
I've never even seen one. I play on the same stage as a lot of Pods and so far I'm less than impressed. They're better than say a Randall RG - but not by a great deal. I guess it could be operator error but that's my experience so far. I haven't been very impressed by AxeFX's either.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#15
They will both work but they are different animals. Amps are designed to color your sound, each amp has its own tone, whereas a PA is designed to be fairly transparent and simply pass through and magnify the signal it is given, so what you put into the PA will be what you get out, whereas a guitar amp is designed to take the signal and then shape the sound and tone based on the type of amp.

You also won't be able to get any natural break up like you would from an overdriven tube amp, overdriving your PA sounds bad and usually means you are going to blow a speaker.

With the PA there is not the same market for speakers as there is for guitar amps. Speakers - if you have never experimented - do make a big difference in the sound you get from an amp. There are several dozen different guitar speakers from Celestion and Eminence alone, you won't get the same options and variety from PA speakers.

They will both work, just depends on what you want.
#16
I've got my eyes on some sweet tube drive simulating pedals that should to the trick real nice. I like having control over all aspects of the sound.
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
-><-
#17
Quote by offrhode92
I've got my eyes on some sweet tube drive simulating pedals that should to the trick real nice. I like having control over all aspects of the sound.


Like what? The best pedals for stuff like that imo are the preamp pedals like the Bogner Uberschall pre, Mesa makes one or two I think.
Gibson RD Silverburst w/ Lace Dissonant Aggressors (SOLD)
Electra Omega Prime Ceruse
Fender Franken-Jag Bass

Amps and the like:
Laney VH100R
Seismic Luke 2x12
Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#18
The Behringer Vintage Tube Monster (with a new tube) has a spot on my top 5 along with Boss and DigiTech that I mentioned in post #10. I looked up the Behringer Ultra-G too, that looks like it has potential. I'm gonna see what my local shop has and do some test drives.
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
-><-
#19
Quote by offrhode92
The Behringer Vintage Tube Monster (with a new tube) has a spot on my top 5 along with Boss and DigiTech that I mentioned in post #10. I looked up the Behringer Ultra-G too, that looks like it has potential. I'm gonna see what my local shop has and do some test drives.


that will burn your house down. i don't trust behinger for shit. their stuff falls apart. their amps (bugera) start on fire.

stay away from behringer. it tis shit.
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#20
It's really not worth it. You're going to end up spending a lot to get something half-way decent. You could just get a good tube combo for the same price or less. A good preamp plus a good cabinet simulator aren't cheap. And the good ones usually don't even sound as good as a real amp. So it doesn't make sense to buy a preamp, a cabinet simulator, and a PA just to try to get it to sound like a real amp when you could just buy a real amp.
#21
I agree a tube or SS amp is better over all , I have the pod500x and it is great for somethings but I alway go back to the amp and pedals , they just soud better and more real ,
#22
i like the idea of the POD->PA, but i don't think it would fulfill me. get a nice tube amp and a pedal or two and enjoy.

before somebody says it is that wattage doesn't mean shit. yes most tube amps sound good at reasonable volumes.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#23
I've kind of abandoned the idea in light of I figured out Tom Scholz's secret recipe for the original Boston tone so now I can basically transform almost any amp into a good Boston sound.

That said, the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is still a spicy $3k almost...
Agile AL-3010SE Goldtop
Carvin 4-string kit bass
Stradivarius copy cello
-><-