#1
Hello everyone,

for years I've been playing on my Peavey Valveking 412 cabinet. Since I finally have a job and I can save the money little by little for an upgrade, I have been looking for a new cabinet.

The reason I want a 212 cabinet is simple: I believe in the principle: Less is more + the 412 is huge...

I heard A LOT of good things about the Orange PPC212 cabinets, both closed and open backs. I read dozens of reviews, viewed dozens of video's on youtube and heard them in action live on stage (not very representative going through a PA).

I play on an Epiphone Les Paul Ebony (yeah I know, not the best guitar but I still have money issues) through my pedalboard into a Blackstar Stage HT-100 head.
I almost exclusively play original songs and occasionally some covers.

The genre of my band: Well, that's difficult, we play different genres...
Some people compare us to Foo Fighters, Snow Patrol, U2, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Death Cab for Cutie and Mogwai.
To explain this: I'm the only guitarplayer in my band and I am very influenced by Post-Rock and Ambient music. These influences are in our band in some kind of "radio-friendly" rock songs. I have a pretty heavy sound and use tons of reverb and delay, but sometimes almost nothing.

Now my question is this: Would the open back be more interesting for me to get the overall ambience in the room/on stage without losing the "heavyness"? Or should I opt for the closed back for the more tight lower end?

I palmmute pretty often (not crazy metal palmmuting), use heavy chords and play both standard and drop-D tuning.

I must admit, like many other guitarplayers I too have problems with hearing myself on stage and while rehearsing. The open back could help with that, or so I heard, but I'm scared I'd miss the punch it needs for our music.
For the record: I know mids are the key, I don't scoop them and I cut the bass just enough to work with our bassplayer. Gains are at moderate level or less. I just miss the "presence" I sometimes need, but also the drive could be a lot more.
I know, 212 cabinets are smaller than 412, so are lower to the ground. The plan is to put the cab on a flight case (but I don't think it will be at ear-level). I heard this can take some of the low-end away, especially from the closed back.

Unfortunately, our musicstore doesn't have these in stock so testing them out is impossible... Hearing the difference between the 2 is not possible at this moment.

Do any of you have any opinions, suggestions, tips or experiences with these cabinets?

All help is much appreciated!
#2
It's your choice really. It depends if you want a bassier sound or not. Imo for that ambient rock stuff I'd get the open back and if you would like more low end just put it against a wall.
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#3
Quote by humbucky
The reason I want a 212 cabinet is simple: I believe in the principle: Less is more + the 412 is huge...
More is more, and a 2x12 will give you a bit less low end.
Quote by humbucky
Some people compare us to Foo Fighters, Snow Patrol, U2, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Death Cab for Cutie and Mogwai.
I'd rather get a cab with T75's or creambacks for that stuff if I was you.
Or C90's.

What amp have you got and where are you located anyway?
Quote by humbucky
Would the open back be more interesting for me to get the overall ambience in the room/on stage without losing the "heavyness"? Or should I opt for the closed back for the more tight lower end?
It's your sound - you have to decide for yourself.

It's kinda like asking if your next guitar should have single coils or humbuckers.
Quote by humbucky
I just miss the "presence" I sometimes need, but also the drive could be a lot more.
Stock speakers in VK cabs are pretty bad IIRC, so whatever good speaker would work.
Quote by humbucky
I know, 212 cabinets are smaller than 412, so are lower to the ground. The plan is to put the cab on a flight case (but I don't think it will be at ear-level). I heard this can take some of the low-end away, especially from the closed back.
On the contrary, this will let you hear less high end.

Anyway, just tilt it.
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#4
i have a pair of the open backs, and i love them. they aren't as tight as an OS sealed orange 212 closed back, but they breath into the area nicely.

right know i have a dual terror on one, and my 1974x clone. i like them a lot. they work good for the big boys too. (keep in mind i also have seven 4x12"s).
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#5
Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

Yeah I know, not easy to answer my question. If it would be possible I would check it out in the store myself but as I said: They don't have them in stock (yet).

I'm from Belgium btw. We don't have a lot of musicstores. The biggest one is on a 10 minute drive from where I live but they don't have them in stock. They sell them online because they import them from the UK.

Quote by Spambot_2

What amp have you got and where are you located anyway?


I'm from Belgium. We don't have a lot of musicstores. The biggest one is on a 10 minute drive from where I live but they don't have them in stock. They sell them online because they import them from the UK, or so a salesman told me.

My amp: Blackstar Stage HT-100

Quote by Spambot_2

It's kinda like asking if your next guitar should have single coils or humbuckers.


I realize that. I actually meant: Would the open back accentuate the overall ambience without losing too much "heavyness", in other words, wich COULD be, in your opinion the better one for my/our kind of music? Again, this is entirely subjective to each and every one of you, I totally get that, but opinions on how and why could help me I think. I know I have to make this out for myself but I have no idea how an open back sounds in comparison to a closed back.


Quote by Spambot_2
Anyway, just tilt it.


I hear this a lot but wouldn't the head fall off when tilted too far? How do people do this? I only saw it with combo's.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into those other speakers.

Overall the open back would be my choice by price.
Last edited by humbucky at Jan 27, 2015,
#6
Quote by humbucky
I realize that. I actually meant: Would the open back accentuate the overall ambience without losing too much "heavyness", in other words, wich COULD be, in your opinion the better one for my/our kind of music?
You wouldn't loose that much tightness, and the sound wouldn't accentuate the ambience much.

I'd say you'll loose more low end than accentuate the ambience.
Quote by humbucky
I hear this a lot but wouldn't the head fall off when tilted too far? How do people do this?
They don't put the heads over the cabs.
You can put the head on a table or on the ground.
Quote by humbucky
Overall the open back would be my choice by price.
If price's this much of a concern I'd definitely go for the open back one.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#7
I think an open back cab makes a little more sense for your playing style. What I've found with open back cabs vs. closed back is that open backs actually let more bass/low end ring through, but it's not as focused as a closed back. For my playing style, closed back is the way to go, because I play a lot of very fast, tight metal riffs, and a closed back keeps the bass more focused and punchy rather than broad, deep, and airy if that makes any sense. If I played the same riffs with the back of my cab removed, a lot of the dynamics of the playing would be lost. That's not to say that you don't get any definition or focus with an open back, it's just not as tight as with it closed. I think that for most non-metal genres, most guitarists would be satisfied with the tightness of an open back cab.

When playing ambient passages with reverb/delay, an open back really shines. That sound just gets a lot bigger and spreads out into the room a lot better.
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#8
Quote by KailM
I think an open back cab makes a little more sense for your playing style. What I've found with open back cabs vs. closed back is that open backs actually let more bass/low end ring through, but it's not as focused as a closed back. For my playing style, closed back is the way to go, because I play a lot of very fast, tight metal riffs, and a closed back keeps the bass more focused and punchy rather than broad, deep, and airy if that makes any sense. If I played the same riffs with the back of my cab removed, a lot of the dynamics of the playing would be lost. That's not to say that you don't get any definition or focus with an open back, it's just not as tight as with it closed. I think that for most non-metal genres, most guitarists would be satisfied with the tightness of an open back cab.

When playing ambient passages with reverb/delay, an open back really shines. That sound just gets a lot bigger and spreads out into the room a lot better.


That makes sense KailM! Thanks, this answers my question!

I really want to make the sound "wide" and "big". With "big" I don't mean loud btw. Some prefer to use a 4x12 cab to do this, but 4x12's are a little bit too steep on the price and the weight and discomfort of moving the thing around are not worth it, not to me at least.
+ our practice room is on the 1st floor and we have to move everything on a steep staircase wich is located outside and can be slippery in wet conditions. It's really a hassle to move the damn thing up and down. To me personally, the 2x12 looks easier to handle.

Advantages of 2x12 in comparison with 4x12:
- Cheaper
- Weighs less
- Smaller = more free space in the car
- Easier to carry

Disadvantages:
- Sounds less "big" (or so I heard).
- Looks less cooler

I will look into it and hopefully I will be able to test one out soon.

Thanks!