#1
Hi forums

I have a gear problem. Most of my pedals were bought back when I was a teenager and had more disposable income than sense, and now I'm stuck with gear I wouldn't have bought today. The problem is that I always have too much gain, or not enough.

My gain pedals are both Boss, an SD-1 Super Overdrive and an MT-2 Metal Zone distortion. My amp is a simple 100w combo amp with no gain or effects of any kind other than reverb. When playing in a studio or rented practice space and using the house amp (either a Marshall or a Laney), I put some gain on it and run the overdrive at the same time- it sounds amazing. The distortion can't be turned on at all, it sounds awful on any amp but my own, and even on that it can be way too much. It creates a lot of hum with the overdrive but doesn't sound that great on its own, it drowns out my wah and phaser, and it's too heavy for the sound I'm going for these days.

Basically my idea is to get a second overdrive to replace the distortion, to emulate the sound I get from the amps in the practice space; I just don't know what one to get. I'm looking for somewhere between Eddie Van Halen and Dave Mustaine; heavy, but only when I play heavy. Something with a nice sharp tone to get backed up by the SD-1. The Metal Zone is full on all the time with overdrive, yet too thin on its own.

It's also crossed my mind to just get a better amp, but I can't afford that right now.

Any suggestions?
#2
Sell everything. The amp, every pedal and then get a new amp
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#4
I have a cry baby, a phase 90 and a DD6 delay that I'm pretty happy with, it's just the gain issue.

I've thought about selling my amp but I'm not sure, I don't think I'd get enough for it to get the amp I want, even with selling the distortion pedal too.
#5
Quote by Rumpleskinstein
I have a cry baby, a phase 90 and a DD6 delay that I'm pretty happy with, it's just the gain issue.

I've thought about selling my amp but I'm not sure, I don't think I'd get enough for it to get the amp I want, even with selling the distortion pedal too.

IMO sell the Crybaby if you don't want to mod it. The Phase 90 is brilliant, same with the DD.
Sell the metal zone, it's garbage. With the money you can get some sort of guitar link and connect to a computer and practice on there, there are plenty of VST's for that stuff.

EDIT:List everything you have.
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
Last edited by Fryderyczek at Jan 27, 2015,
#7
Go to the Wampler Pedal site and check out some of the vids and sound files. Particularly the Pinnacle, the Brent Mason, etc.
#8
Quote by Rumpleskinstein


when I was a teenager and had more disposable income than sense, and now I'm stuck with gear I wouldn't have bought today.


We get a lot of that on UG.

Are you any relation to any of the rest of the
'Rumple clan,' such as Rumpledforeskin?
#9
what amp do you have and what amps exactly are you usig in the rehersal room?

sounds to me like you are overdoing it with the gain. the settings you use by yourself at home and the ones used with a band generally won't be the same. once you start upping the volume certain tones start to get more emphasis etc. getting a good sound at low volumes with pedals usually isn't that hard but once you turn it up it all goes to hell quick. the other thing is EQ. once again you often have to readjust your eq settings depending on volume and amp used.

gettng a better distortion pedal might help some but is more of a band aid fix. better amp is the real answer
#10
Quote by monwobobbo
what amp do you have and what amps exactly are you usig in the rehersal room?

sounds to me like you are overdoing it with the gain. the settings you use by yourself at home and the ones used with a band generally won't be the same. once you start upping the volume certain tones start to get more emphasis etc. getting a good sound at low volumes with pedals usually isn't that hard but once you turn it up it all goes to hell quick. the other thing is EQ. once again you often have to readjust your eq settings depending on volume and amp used.

gettng a better distortion pedal might help some but is more of a band aid fix. better amp is the real answer

Having a shitty amp and getting a distortion pedal is like putting a band aid on cancer
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#11
monwobobbo has a good point. The distortion level you use at home is usually a lot more than you will need onstage or with a band. It took me a while to figure out what was going on when I first started using pedals. Great sound at home, muddy as hell onstage and loads of hum.

I eventually found out all that gain gets really muddy when you mix in a full band, and the hum is a lot louder at practice/onstage volumes versus bedroom volume. You probably need about half the gain you use at home.

I use a Marshall Bluesbreaker Overdrive, great pedal. The Ibanez Tube Screamer is usually the most commonly recommended overdrive. I love the Bluesbreaker, it does a great job. I have to do the same thing though, onstage I have to watch the gain close, a little too much and it gets muddy as hell and the hum gets out of hand. Same for the distortion pedal, I use an Ibanez SD 9 and a Boss DS1. (not both at once) Also have a Metal Planet Rocktron but it's so difficult to adjust I rarely use it.

Also watch the tone. Too much bass is not as good thing with distortion or overdrive. IT gets muddy if the tone control is too far to the bass end. Too much treble makes it too harsh. I can't recommend a setting, it varies from room to room and player to player, and is affected by the tone settings of the amp. I keep mine around halfway most of the time.

As far as amps go, a good tube amp is the only way for me any more. I fought solid state amps for 20 years, once I plugged into a friend's Peavey Butcher there was no turning back. I play a Fender Super Reverb now, a Peavey MX and a Fender Champ. Don't even own a solid state amp any more.

Cut the gain back, you need a lot less when you're trying to cut through a full band, and if you have it all set well, the hum should not be loud enough to be heard when you're playing, keep the pedal turned off when not playing. I use a volume pedal, at the end of a song I shut the volume down quick, then turn off any pedals, that eliminates all noise between songs. I'm really picky about that, I don't like noise onstage between songs, no doodling, no tuning. If I have to retune, I do it with either a Snark or a tuner pedal mounted on my pedal board, both with no noise at all. And only if I can't avoid it, usually I just grab another guitar.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#12
Thanks for all your responses.

Ill list my gear. My main guitar is a Tokai EX55, currently stock pickups but soon to be EMGs. The arrival of the EMGs is what spurred me to sort this problem out, as I suspect the issue will be far greater with actives.

My pedal chain is cry baby>phase 90>SD-1>MT-2>DD6

I wish I could tell you what amp I have. Its one of those mysterious things you get from a distant relatives loft. It hass Boss stickers but it isn't Boss- I checked. I'm told the manufacturers name is usually printed on the PCB but I havn't gotten around to opening it up yet. I couldn't tell you the model numbers of the house amps I use, they're different each time- I could only say expensive looking heads and cabinets. That's what I want, but it's out of my price range.

Fryderyczek- I already have a computer link, I barely use it. My computer speakers aren't very good. I don't think I could give up having a nice(ish) amp at home though- I'm not strong enough.

And about different tones when playing with the band- you're right about that. Doubling up the amp gain with the overdrive works pretty well, yet it doesn't even come close to the amout of gain the metal zone gives off at home.
Last edited by Rumpleskinstein at Jan 27, 2015,
#13
i'd probably get some kind of (not too dear) marshall in a box type pedal. the sd1 should sound pretty good into it.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
okay. so step 1, double check and ensure your amp is not some super secret collector boutique thing. step 2, you probably have some random solid state garbage amp, sell it.

step 3, never buy a peice of gear with "metal" in the name ever again. perhaps in the description, but if its part of the product branded title...never....ever... buy it. generally any good company wouldnt dare brand a product and even if they did...say Wampler, well, its wampler. they may get a pass. yeah so sell that.

the SD-1 is a historic pedal. may not be for all or for any setup. but fact is, most of the world can tell you its possible to get good tone with it.

invest in a good amp. its 70-80% of your tone. then get pedals that compliment that. replace the metal zone, perhaps keep the sd-1 secondary, but thats subject for replacement as well.
Carvin CT624
Walden G630ce Acoustic
Carvin V3M, Avatar 2x12 WGS Reaper, vet 30
(crybaby, Fairfield circuitry Comp, GFS tuner, Vick Audio 73 Ram's Head, Xotic AC booster, lovepedal trem, TC Flashback, PGS Trinity Reverb, Walrus Audio Aetos power)
Last edited by ikey_ at Jan 27, 2015,
#15
Quote by ikey_
okay. so step 1, double check and ensure your amp is not some super secret collector boutique thing. step 2, you probably have some random solid state garbage amp, sell it.

step 3, never buy a peice of gear with "metal" in the name ever again. perhaps in the description, but if its part of the product branded title...never....ever... buy it. generally any good company wouldnt dare brand a product and even if they did...say Wampler, well, its wampler. they may get a pass. yeah so sell that.

the SD-1 is a historic pedal. pay not be for all or for any setup. but fact is, most of the world can tell you its possible to get good tone with it.

invest in a good amp. its 70-80% of your tone. then get pedals that compliment that. replace the metal zone, perhaps keep the sd-1 secondary, but thats subject for replacement as well.


solid advice. the EH Metal Muff isn't bad though when used right so not evey "metal" pedal is total crap (just most of them). Metal Zone is a total n00b pedal (why it's sold so well). tons of distortion doens't mean good sound. don't bother with another overdrive until you get a tube amp as they just don't react the same with solid state or modeling amps (but keep the sd-1). new amp is the best route. if you can't afford tube then get a modeller and sip the fx for now (wo't really be needed).
#16
Try tweaking the metal zone, it has sweepable mid eq,experiment with draticsettings, ie amp set on dull pedal on high mids,etc. You might find some magic with it. There are also mods for it,Keeley mod,etc.
I'd suggest HT-Dual as it has tons of tonal options, sell both overdrive and distortion. Maybe try Sansamp Classic or Gt-2 as they have a lot of final options, maybe even some of the newer Sansamp pedals modeled after Marshall or Mesa. If you can get Mesa Vtwin it will probably fix the whole problem with one swoop.

... Or dump the whole thing,get a good 2 channel tube amp and use overdrive for lead or push more distortion.
Last edited by diabolical at Jan 28, 2015,
#19
Quote by ikey_

(a) step 3, never buy a peice of gear with "metal" in the name ever again. perhaps in the description, but if its part of the product branded title...never....ever... buy it. generally any good company wouldnt dare brand a product and even if they did...say Wampler, well, its wampler. they may get a pass. yeah so sell that.

(b) the SD-1 is a historic pedal. may not be for all or for any setup. but fact is, most of the world can tell you its possible to get good tone with it.

(c) invest in a good amp. its 70-80% of your tone. then get pedals that compliment that. replace the metal zone, perhaps keep the sd-1 secondary, but thats subject for replacement as well.


(a) I like my hardwire metal distortion any of the "non-metal" pedals I've tried don't really get heavy enough- but I know what you mean and pretty much agree (just as monwobobbo says, I'd judge each on its own merits, and as diabolical says, some of the more involved ones take a lot of tweaking to sound good). I got it to do a very specific thing (brootalz tones with my lower gain amps). For lighter metal tones you often get a better tone (at least IMO) by stacking an od into a lower gain/"regular" distortion pedal.

(b) agreed, the sd1 is great.

(c) I agree the amp is important but I don't know if the sd1 is a candidate for replacement. I love the sd1.

Quote by Tony Done
That's something I've never tried, an OD pedal into the Tech 21 British. Could be interesting, eh?.


I haven't tried those tech 21 style pedals. I just meant into more regular distortion boxes which are known to sound marshally (like the carl martin diabolical mentioned, though I haven't tried that one either). It normally sounds pretty good, at least in my experience.

Another reason for keeping the sd1, too- at least in my opinion. The sd1, to my ears, sounds better than a tubescreamer for doing that (a lot of people prefer an sd1 to a tubescreamer into marshall tube amps, too).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
Quote by Dave_Mc



I haven't tried those tech 21 style pedals.

Another reason for keeping the sd1, too- at least in my opinion. The sd1, to my ears, sounds better than a tubescreamer for doing that (a lot of people prefer an sd1 to a tubescreamer into marshall tube amps, too).



I think anyone interested in analog amp emulators should give those Tech 21/Sansamp pedals a try if they can. They are very versatile, with a huge range of sounds and very high output - enough to drive headphones - and the new ones with speaker emulation defeat should be even better than mine. The problem I can see with them is that each control has such a wide range of effect that it is easy to miss the sweet spot.

My two favourite OD pedals are the SD-1 (I have an very ancient Japanese one) and the Bad Monkey. I recently did a straight side-by-side switching test of the Bad Monkey and BD-2, and the BM came out the clear winner for me. There's not much point in copmparing the SD-1 with the BM, they have quite different characters. I'll try the SD-1 into the Tech 21 British.
#22
My options are either sell the distortion and get a better one/second overdrive, or sell the distortion and the amp and get a better amp. I could get about £50 for the distortion, and some of those marshall in a box types actually sound pretty nice.

I opened up my amp. The speaker says Fane on the back (Fane Acoustics LTD, Batley west yorks, Made in England) and the PCB by the dials says Fal. I've never heard of either of these companies. The PCB also has a hand-written date on it- 24th may, 1953? That can't be right can it? I didn't think it would be older than the 80's, if that. Either way, I can't find an amp that looks like mine anywhere on Google. I can post some pictures if you guys want, just need to make an account on an image site.

The other thing about selling this amp is that it's pretty bashed up. Some of the dials are missing or partially missing, the spring reverb is broken (although opening it up I think can see whats wrong, I might be able to fix it) and it's generally seen better days.

Your responses have all been really helpful, thank you.
#24
Quote by Tony Done
I think anyone interested in analog amp emulators should give those Tech 21/Sansamp pedals a try if they can. They are very versatile, with a huge range of sounds and very high output - enough to drive headphones - and the new ones with speaker emulation defeat should be even better than mine. The problem I can see with them is that each control has such a wide range of effect that it is easy to miss the sweet spot.

My two favourite OD pedals are the SD-1 (I have an very ancient Japanese one) and the Bad Monkey. I recently did a straight side-by-side switching test of the Bad Monkey and BD-2, and the BM came out the clear winner for me. There's not much point in copmparing the SD-1 with the BM, they have quite different characters. I'll try the SD-1 into the Tech 21 British.


yeah i know they have a good rep (and i think joyo does a cheapo copy), just never got round to trying them

I think the BM is a glorified tubescreamer (ish), so yeah a bit different. the BM is a bit smoother while the SD1 a bit brasher as diabolical said. But both in the same ballpark too, I'd say, they both have the bass cut, mid boost and compression which makes that style of OD pedal so awesome for certain things, just they do those things slightly differently (or at least in a way that sounds slightly different).

I like both. Just I find a TS-type can be too middy with an already middy amp. I suppose an SD1 could be too if the amp were really, really middy, but it seems to be ok with marshall-style amps at least.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
i always have kind of liked the fulltone GT-500.

get a new amp. if you like Marshall, look at the JCM 2000 DSL 40 post 2003, NOT new version. the DSL 50 heads are good too if you want a head/cab setup.

just a simple recommendation. i think i have 13 or 14 tube amps and two (good) hybrid and one SS.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#26
move the MT2, get a tech 21 US steel or a Wampler distortion. It will run you 150 bucks, but will work with anything you have/get/use at practice. The US steel has cab simulation on it, so it will give you something to rely on for metal tone traveling. Fane Speakers are a good sign. Some of the old Laney stuff had fanes and people rave about them. If your amp does not have tubes, it is 100% not from the 50s. Late 60's at the earliest.

If you get an amp and you need metal tone, the the 6505 combo. Good sounding cleans, great drive tones.
Quote by Fryderyczek
Having a shitty amp and getting a distortion pedal is like putting a band aid on cancer


for music without words I help make: Listen Earth