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#1
Hello

So this is another problem. I'm very good at school (currently in high school) but I still want to go with musician. What I mean by this is having a band that "is aiming for the top". Easy or not, unsure or 100% guaranteed, that's not the problem. My parents are against this idea, they're like" No, you will pursue an academic career." Then I reply that I don't want to, I want to go with a band.Then they reply "Name one famous musician that chose to be musician while having excellent grades at school"
Don't know any but how the fk does it have anything to do with me? Even when I do get excellent grades, does it mean that I'm to become an astronaut? No?..
What am I supposed to do. This is like threating almost like "You refuse to pursue an academic career and we'll disown you"
Last edited by Billie_J at Jan 28, 2015,
#2
The golden rule applies here: "Whomever has the gold makes the rules."

As long as you live in their house, eat their food and use their electricity they have earned the privilege to make the rules and set the standards. Once you earn enough money to get your own place, drive a car you bought, and pay all your own bills then you will have earned the privilege to make your house rules and set the standards. It's a good system so start earning some cash and save as much as you can.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
There's too much crappy bands out there. I hate to break it to you, but If you're mind is dead set on "making it in a band" then you've already failed. You're still in High School you don't know how it is out there in the real world.. You can still make a career out of music, but I wouldn't really rely on the whole band niche. There's plenty of things that you can do to make money off of music. Audio engineering is a good example, and it's more realistic. By the way there's a whole bunch of really bad bands out there that can barely play their instruments signed to record labels. It's all about luck honestly, and has nothing to do with skill...
#4
I agree with Cajundaddy. If you provide for yourself then it's fine, remember that many bands had to work hard to get where they are, so taking on a job and in your free time rehearsing with the band is an option.

I had to do the same thing. When i finished high school i was not a good enough player to get accepted into the music programs i wanted at college level, so i took a part time job to please my parents and pay rent, then in my free time i practiced as much as i could, for two years, then i got accepted for college.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#5
I don't claim to be an expert on this. But to me the only major obstacle, on this level at least, are my parents. Succeeding is the second level but you must pass the first one before that. I have no idea what are the requirements to be signed with a label nowadays. Lately people have been found from Instagram and the reason for this was because this one guy had 100k followers thanks to his looks. For example, was it easier in the 90s?
My parents' exaggerating about this is annoying as fk. "OK, you want a band? Go interrupt your school then".
What I have in my mind is that I would have a band while in high school and see how it goes. It either comes with success or not. If it comes with success, I'd still finish high school. If it doesn't come with success then it doesn't and I move along.

I don't even know why they're against this... It sounds like a jealous friend telling you " No, come on, you will never succeed in that(With belief that his friend would succeed but he doesn't want to accept it)"
Last edited by Billie_J at Jan 28, 2015,
#6
Quote by Billie_J
I don't claim to be an expert on this. But to me the only major obstacle, on this level at least, are my parents. Succeeding is the second level but you must pass the first one before that. I have no idea what are the requirements to be signed with a label nowadays. Lately people have been found from Instagram and the reason for this was because this one guy had 100k followers thanks to his looks. For example, was it easier in the 90s?


Record labels aren't a necessity anymore though. Sure, many of them are great and support the bands that are signed to them. But i know many people who have been screwed by their record label, and as a result gone independent. They fix their own merch, reach out to distributors (iTunes, Spotify etc), find their own gigs etc. If you are active on social media and bring out content often you can keep people interested that way aswell.

I don't think it is easier or harder now than it was in the 90's/80's/whatever. Bands still had to work their butt off to get anywhere. You still have to gig often so you get a following, engage with your fans (which is now easier thanks to social media and youtube), and be interesting.

One thing i know from experience from playing with a lot of bands though, a job/part time job is a very good thing to have. If everyone in the band works you have more money to invest in the band, thinking you will not have to work with anything else and start with music is not a good mindset to have. I can nowadays live on gigs/teaching/session work, but i had to start working in part-time in stores so i could pay my rent.

If you are serious about going somewhere with a band, work hard with it and try to make it by yourselves. If you are good enough and get enough attraction from fans, a record label will check you out, but it is better to expect the worst and be able to do it yourselves than cling to the belief that a label with pick you up someday.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#7
The main problem again, are my parents. I'm 17 and kinda under their control. I'm not worried about succeeding because I can work hard to achieve something. But my parents aren't as easy to deal with. If anyone of you had any clever objections to tell my parents, share, :p
#8
You can still be in a band and have a day job.
Comply with your parent and let them think you're doing this as "hobby" thing so they will still buy you Gibson or Stratocaster which one you prefer with Messa amp...

Then learn some home recording technique, have a garage jamming at your friend house.

Make it like extra-co curricular activities.

Make it looks positive in your parents eyes.
#9
Go to school man, music will always be there. Getting an education that mom and dad are paying for is something most people could only dream of.
#10
Academic success and a band doesn't have to be an either/or decision at this or any point in your life.

There are a number of university graduates (as well as university dropouts) in famous bands.

Brian May (the guitarist from Queen) had a degree and was beginning his doctorate studies when he formed Queen. He became a musical superstar but didn't finish his doctorate until 2008 when he finally got his PhD in astrophysics.

Tom Scholz from the band Boston had a Masters degree in mechanical engineering from the world renowned MIT. He has 4 top 10 singles, two number 1 albums, and 34 patents to his name.

Tom Morello joined his first band at 13 (a led zeppelin cover band as a singer) and got excellent grades throughout high school graduating with honours. He was accepted into Harvard where he earned his degree. Then moved to LA and worked as a male stripper before making it big with Rage Against the Machine.

Dexter Holland lead singer and vocalist from the band the Offspring graduated valedictorian of his high school where he excelled at mathematics. He found it just as exciting as punk rock. At university he earned a Masters degree in molecular biology and began his PhD studies but put them on hold because his band (the Offspring) was taking off. They gained international success in the 90s and now he's 49 and resumed his PhD studies with an eye toward teaching.

Colin Greenwood of Radiohead started playing guitar at 15 when at high school. He started his first band with his school friend Thom Yorke in his final year of high school. He went on to none other than Cambridge University before making it big with his band Radiohead.

John Legend graduated the University of Pennsylvania with an English degree and apparently received scholarship offers from (among others) Harvard and Georgetown.

Huey Lewis was a pretty smart guy. Scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of his SATs he was accepted to study engineering at Cornell university. He dropped out in his junior year to pursue music. It took maybe five or six years before he became successful but he had a great career in music because he chased his dream.

Rivers Cuomo (lead singer and guitarist) of the band Weezer did well at school but his band Weezer did even better. After the success of his band he attended Harvard on and off over several years until finally graduating cum laude with a B A in English. Not as impressive as some of the rock stars mentioned but it shows that even having an internationally successful band doesn't have to prevent one from pursuing higher education.

Art Garfunkel has a Bachelor of Arts in History and a Masters in mathematics from Columbia University. He completed coursework toward a doctorate in mathematics education but Simon and Garfunkel were peaking in their success and it got put on the backburner. I'm not sure if he ever resumed his studies but he had a great career. He was performing musically from grade 1. Being in a band only sidelined his studies at the PhD level when he and Paul Simon were one of the biggest acts in the musical world.

Jeff Baxter guitarist for Steely Dan and the Doobie Brothers was a pretty intelligent dude. He taught himself all about weapons systems then wrote a five page paper proposing the ship based anti aircraft missile system Aegis be converted to a missile defense system. It was such an impressive paper he became a sought after defense consultant. He was elected chairman of the Civilian Advisory Board for Ballistic Missile Defense and has been awarded consulting contracts with the Missile Defense Agency, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, U.S. Department of Defense, Science Applications International Corporation, Northrop Grumman Corp. and General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. He has also joined the NASA Exploration Systems Advisory Committee.

There are several others that are similarly successful academically and have successful music careers. Apart from all the graduates there are also those met their bandmates at university and dropped out to pursue a music career. Even Ke$ha apparently scored 1500 (out of 1600) on her SATs and was offered a scholarship to Barnard College but decided to pursue a music career instead.

Music and practicing a musical instrument has long been considered to be beneficial to intellectual studies in other fields. It's by no means something that is required in order for a person to be smart but it is absolutely not a hindrance. Scientific studies suggest that playing musical instruments enhances IQ and creative thinking. A big part of learning a musical instrument is to play with other people.

Having an interest in music and being in a band doesn't mean you have to quit studying and it doesn't mean music has to be a distraction. Just look at all the talented artists I listed that have successful music careers and achieved academic excellence. I'm sure there are also even more academically successful people that were in bands and played musical instruments that didn't get anywhere with their band so continued to pursue their academic studies.

There are a lot of famous achievers that also play music but pursue it only as a hobby. Neil Armstrong played baritone horn. Thomas Edison played the piano. Einstein played the piano and violin. Benjamin Franklin played the guitar and violin. Thomas Jefferson played the cello, clavichord, and violin.

Anyway, to be honest it sound like you're being a bit of a child about this whole thing. Your tone comes across somewhat petulant. Approach it with a mature attitude and you'll make more headway with your parents.

The following might work if you have discipline and are able to handle pressure with self control and clarity - and if you know how to make a sale.

Talk to your parents calmly and rationally. Don't get upset, yell and throw a tantrum if they object and show concern about your wanting to pursue music. Listen to their objections and try to understand their point of view. They are your parents and they love you. They are worried and that's what parents do. Approach it by putting their mind at ease.

Start by recapping your successes. Remind them of your accomplishments, strengths, and examples of times you have proved trustworthy and responsible. Getting good grades, helping around the house, anything that shows you're a good egg and remind them that although sometimes you get it wrong your hearts in the right place because they have raised you to show good judgment.

Tell them that you want to pursue music and a band but that you understand their concerns about your grades and that you don't see it as an either/or but that you can do both. Ask them to let you put your entire case forward before objecting and then start with some of the examples above (print them out if you want - do a google search for other examples if you prefer them) to show them it's feasible to achieve in both academic and musical endeavours at the same time.

If you talk to your teachers or principle you might even find some support from them in regard to the benefits of playing in a band. If your teachers say positive things can be gained from being in a band ask them if you can quote them on that. Then use their words exactly when putting your case to your parents. Don't forget to mention all the positive benefits you can gain from such an experience like creativity, discipline, communication, teamwork, confidence, being in front of a crowd etc etc.

Then take your last three report cards and average the grades, grade point average or work out a way of scoring the grades so that you can average them in a way that you can then measure future report cards against. Tell them that you promise to maintain that same grade average and assure them that your music pursuits will not interfere with your grades.

Then pull out a prepared written contract that you have already signed. In the contract state that so long as you maintain the same grade average your parents will support your musical interests but also that if you fail to maintain those averages then your band will be put on hold for a minimum of two terms while you get your grades in order after which if your grades are back on track for two consecutive terms then (depending on the severity of your grade slip and how long you maintained your average before that) you may resume scaled back participation in your band activities on a probationary period.

Smile a lot when you're talking to them, keep the mood positive. You're selling them on an idea so make the sale. When you're done explaining the contract slide it over to them with a pen for signing (you've already signed it all it needs is their signature).

At that point stop and let them be the next ones to speak. If they say no tell them you'll leave it with them and to think it over for a couple of days. Don't ever cry moan whine or act like an emotional child because the second you do then in their mind you've justified them treating you like a child. But if you are reasonable, and fair and accept their decision with humility and respect then they will doubt their decision until you give them reason not to...basically the next one to bring it up loses.

If they agree, then awesome. Just be sure to work extra hard on your studies. Build up some credit in the bank so to speak so that if sometime next year you have a bad day bomb a test and drop a fraction below the agreed mark you have some leverage.
Si
#11
Quote by Billie_J
Hello

So this is another problem. I'm very good at school (currently in high school) but I still want to go with musician. What I mean by this is having a band that "is aiming for the top". Easy or not, unsure or 100% guaranteed, that's not the problem. My parents are against this idea, they're like" No, you will pursue an academic career." Then I reply that I don't want to, I want to go with a band.Then they reply "Name one famous musician that chose to be musician while having excellent grades at school"
Don't know any but how the fk does it have anything to do with me? Even when I do get excellent grades, does it mean that I'm to become an astronaut? No?..
What am I supposed to do. This is like threating almost like "You refuse to pursue an academic career and we'll disown you"


There's plenty of examples of successful musicians with university degrees. David Macklovitch from Chromeo has a PHD in French Litterature from Columbia University. Win Butler from Arcade Fire has a bachelor's degree. Greg Graffin from Bad Religion has a PHD from Cornell.

Why do you think studying at University for 4 years will somehow stop you from being a musician? The University lifestyle gives you more free time than any other lifestyle - use that free time to play music. You'll meet tons of musicians on any campus - so it's also a great place to build a network. I spent a year and a half after high school out on my own working full-time and playing music - in my experience, University actually gave me more free time and energy to practice and play music than when I was working!

If you are committed to making music than all the power to you, but you probably have no idea of what is required to make a living playing music.... you may not enjoy that part as much as you think you will, so why handicap your entire future ?

I would suggest doing both. Get some basic studies out of the way while you're young, because then you'll have something to fall back on if music doesn't work out ( which unfortunately is very likely).

I can tell you one thing with certainty, going back to school when you're in your late 20's or thirties blows. I've seen so many people have to do that because they simply did not get it out of the way when they should have, and it sucks - a lot.
Last edited by reverb66 at Jan 28, 2015,
#12
Just go to Uni, man. Even if you start gigging in a band RIGHT THIS MOMENT, it won't be for a few years that it would even possibly move beyond a hobby into something more serious. You'll have WAAY more free time than you think you will, and you'll regret not putting that time into something else that is productive. I'm currently in Uni for Business, I think it was a great decision for me personally. It's something that applies to my musical endeavors, and is helping learn how to run a "business" effectively as well as marketing it. If I end up not becoming a pro musician, I'll have another avenue to pursue.


Also, these dudes are 100% right. It is VERY hard to make a living purely through a band. It's possible, but you see many pro musicians doing other things to fill the gaps. Whether it's the aforementioned audio engineering, playing in cover bands or genres that are more commercially successful inbetween, session work, lessons, WHATEVER. Look into doing that at some point as well. It'll only help you.
#13
Quote by reverb66


Why do you think studying at University for 4 years will somehow stop you from being a musician? The University lifestyle gives you more free time than any other lifestyle - use that free time to play music. You'll meet tons of musicians on any campus - so it's also a great place to build a network. I spent a year and a half after high school out on my own working full-time and playing music - in my experience, University actually gave me more free time and energy to practice and play music than when I was working!


This ^^

While studying business in college I also minored in music. This opened up a whole pool of talented musicians to work with so we went to school weekdays and gigged all the frat parties and clubs on weekends. I paid for all my gear with gig money cause they always needed a good band and paid well.

The other advantage was studying business contract law so when we were presented an offer for a recording contract we were able to carefully dissect it and figured out it gave all our publishing rights to the label and committed us to them for 5 years. All recording and tour expenses came out of our cut. If we just saw $$ signs we might have signed a really crappy deal. We would have been indentured servants for 5 years in a bus. Thanks but no thanks.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#14
It's been said in here already, but 4 years of college is a great time to be a musician. Instead of getting wasted every weekend, gig. Instead of watching netflix, compose. If you're good at academia and are also able to devote time to your music, you are a lucky individual. Take some business and contract law classes, maybe a creative writing class to help you with lyrics. Colleges offer music classes too, it never hurts to step back and revisit the fundamentals with a new teacher. Instead of viewing their wishes as a burden, remember that they want the best for you, and your chosen path is risky. Without a backup plan, it can leave you broke with no resume or degree, and that is not a good place to be.

I had a quarter life crisis type thing and went back to school, specifically for music business and technology, and I work security at a concert venue. I have all the time I need to make music, but I am also learning and applying valuable business skills that will let me run a venue, manage artists, produce records and generally do anything a record label would require.
#15
Alright. Thanks for the replies and help, especially the one with the long ass reply, lol. I managed to change my parents' minds. But yes, I shall continue as it is.

And now something extra. Would you regard being famous as an interval that is actually fun for a certain interval. After this you just think that it's just a burden with which you'll have to cope? Like, it might sound cool in the beginning but in the end it's just a heft.
#16
I think it really depends on what your famous for and who you're famous to. I'd rather be famous to serious musicians for creative playing and advancing the state of guitar music than be famous world wide for making radio hits. Super fame also means no privacy. Think about Steve Vai. He is extremely famous amongst guitarists for his technical skill, versatility and dedication, but if you ask the average person, they'll be like, "whos that?" Basically, I'd rather have 20,000 fans who genuinely care about and respect my work, than 20,000,000 for whom I'm just the flavor of the week.
#17
Great advice in this thread, especially from 20T. Heed that man's words.

I'm going to add this and tie together a lot of what is said here:

If you think for one second you are going to be able to derive 100% of an income from being in a band, writing tunes in a garage, and gigging/touring, (the typical 1980s rock image we all know to well) then you have the wrong attitude. The odds of that, barring a hit song/accumulating a rabid fanbase, are pretty low or nonexistent.

If you really want to survive and thrive in today's industry then you need to be well-rounded and a PROFESSIONAL. You need to be able to not only perform, but also compose, arrange, produce, and teach. You need to be skilled across multiple fields, and you need to play multiple genres proficiently.

I don't mean to sound cynical, but if you are kicking ass in school, then you should go to college and further that. You can always study music on the side, and getting into it at a collegiate level will hook you up with like-minded musicians (who are probably MILES ahead on the professionalism scale of the high school crowd) and opportunities.

I was a particle physics major doubling (tripling) up with classical composition and jazz performance when I was in school before I switched to Berklee to wrap the whole thing up. It definitely made me a thousand times the artist/craftsman I would have been if I didn't go to school.

My point being this: If you want to be a professional, then the logical thing to do is to approach this professionally. Further your education and do college; you clearly have the talent for it. Look for a school that ALSO has a great music program, and double major or minor in music.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#18
I hope you are aware that Pharrell, an A list artist, made less than $3K in performance royalties from more than 40 million plays on Pandora.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
Quote by Xiaoxi
I hope you are aware that Pharrell, an A list artist, made less than $3K in performance royalties from more than 40 million plays on Pandora.


Thats because Pandora and Spotify are terrible for already established artists. If you are just starting out and your music happens to show up on Led Zeppelin radio, then thats EXCELLENT promotion or exposure. If you're already selling out 10k+ crowds, then having your music streaming for free really comes down to how reliably your fans will PAY for music or see the shows. This seems to be different for different genres. Most of the guys I know who are big Blues fans buy all their music, whereas a lot of the people I know who are into EDM and some of the more mainstream rap tend to stream or download illegally. As has been said before, the more individual skills you cultivate, the more likely you are to make a living in the music industry. In order to have any sort of independent employment/small business success, you need to establish multiple income streams in order to prevent things from crashing and burning.

If you're a good producer or sound engineer, you can offer recording, mixing and mastering services. If you have marketing and promotional skills, you can also offer consulting and direct marketing work. If you're talented in multiple genres of music, you can find work as a session man. If you are a good networker with knowledge of your local music scene, you can get into A&R and artist development. When you combine all these skills together, suddenly you can become a one-stop shop for OTHER musicians looking to build their careers. The fact that you play and write music gives you a huge advantage in terms of experience, and also can allow you to promote your other services more reliably.

The days of grinding it out in the bars and clubs night after night and submitting demo tapes are probably pretty much over. The new industry requires a lot more individual business savvy. That being said, for any band, gigging is still king when it comes to building a fanbase and brand. But expecting to be "discovered" by a big label is probably going to leave you disappointed.
#20
Quote by Billie_J
Alright. Thanks for the replies and help, especially the one with the long ass reply, lol. I managed to change my parents' minds. But yes, I shall continue as it is.

And now something extra. Would you regard being famous as an interval that is actually fun for a certain interval. After this you just think that it's just a burden with which you'll have to cope? Like, it might sound cool in the beginning but in the end it's just a heft.


That's not something you need to worry about, start by figuring out how to have someone other than your immediate and extended family members pay for your music....once you got that sorted, you can move on to worrying about how to deal with stardom.
#21
Quote by Billie_J
Alright. Thanks for the replies and help, especially the one with the long ass reply, lol. I managed to change my parents' minds. But yes, I shall continue as it is.

And now something extra. Would you regard being famous as an interval that is actually fun for a certain interval. After this you just think that it's just a burden with which you'll have to cope? Like, it might sound cool in the beginning but in the end it's just a heft.



That's like worrying about whether they're going to be able to grow bananas on the first manned mission to Mars. You've got about a million things to think about before you can even come close to being concerned with that.
A lot of people pointed out that school and music aren't mutually exclusive. What wasn't talked about is that today, even for musicians who have supposedly made it, music is still a financial struggle.
There is no money in record sales (actually, there almost never was. Even at the best of times, the majority of albums lost money). Signing to a label immediately puts you into debt - seriously, look up your standard record contract and see how it works. Few bands ever make enough money to pay back what they owe the label, let alone live off their music.
Sad fact is, when it comes to rock music, there are two kinds of bands: the ultra-rich, and the rest. The odds of making it to a level where you have a video with millions of views, tours, merch and name recognition are extremely low, and at that point, you're still not making any money, and even then, your career is over in a matter of years, not decades. To get to the level where you're consistently making money, your chances are even lower than that.
Just something to take into consideration.
#22
Good advice in this thread. TS I can completely relate to feeling like you're forced into an academic career. When I was in school I was topping pretty much every subject when I got obsessed with guitar and told my parents that I wanted to be a musician. I wouldn't say they were angry about the decision, but they were definitely weren't supportive, and at that time it feels like you're forced into every major decision there is.

So half heartedly I ended up studying law instead of music. I also started playing in local bands.

It was only at this point, actually playing in local bands and working scene, that I realised that didn't want to rely on music as my primary source of income. Without any pressure to make cash from the music I could simply enjoy it instead, play for fun.

And now two degrees and a graduate diploma later, I feel it was the right decision. You could say that I sacrificed fame and fortune for working for the man, but I've played hundreds of gigs since leaving high school, and am part of a successful local band that may go somewhere one day. The point is that I never left music.

Also when you're in high school you don't really have a concept of how much it costs to live.

Let's do some basic stuff in cover bands locally, two gigs a week paying $100 each. $200 for the week. There goes your rent. To make ends meet you take up a casual job at a local supermarket and get an extra $200 for the week. $400 a week now. Yay now we can eat.

Keep doing this for a couple of years, your bands had ups and downs, maybe a couple of tours too, some corporate gigs payed well but mostly it's still really pulling in $400 for the week because you're too dedicated to the music, and you're not qualified for anything but the supermarket. Your high school friends start graduating now and walking into jobs paying $800 a week.

Eventually you get tired of being broke and go to uni or a college tafe to get qualified get cash doing something else. You'll continue to play music of course, and you'll be pretty damn good at this point.

And you wonder why you didn't do this in the first place.

It sounds pretty pessimistic, but it's a really common story for musos.

However the alternative is:

Go to uni. Meet some friends you'll have forever and form a band. You guys start working the local scene and get a following. What happens at this point is up to fate. You guys might make it huge and defer your studies to work on the band. Or you might not get huge and play gigs to good local crowds till you graduate.

You can see in the latter situation that it's not an either/or decision with studies and music. The only real difference between studying and not studying whilst playing music is that if you don't study, you are cutting your options for cash significantly. And it's better to have more options than less.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
Last edited by AlanHB at Feb 20, 2015,
#23
Just do the both music and school at the same time.

You just take time to practice and gigging enough and still go your school. You can be like the GREATEST musician in the world for a day, but then you think that the school could be good under everything.

I was in a daily job, when I started gigging. Then gigging and practice took most of my time and I also did get some money just gigging. Then I did go to music school. Start learning more jazz and other music. Then I noticed that even with doing gigs i did not get enough money for LIFE. You know for car, apartment etc... Now I still play lot music, not professional gigs. I got hobby to play jazz guitar in my own time. But now I am in a new school studying my second profession. I am gonna be a pharmacy technician.

Actuallly. Playing just gigs would not have been my thing. Or music as my work would not have been my thing. Its great that I had some backup plans or bridges before me where to go back in life.

You seem like young kid. I know NOW IS EVERYTHING, but after you are 50 year old you still gonna have music and you can make it! But thats the time when you cant listen your parents or go to school anymore.
#24
Hi BillieJ

Your parents mean well, they are trying to save you from financial dificulty, because they don't believe you can make it in the industry, And do not blame them.

There are specific things that you can do to become a pro musician, just like a recipy, it's not just "luck". It's only luck if you succeed wihout having the slightest clue of what you were doing or what was that you did that made you succesful. And needless to say that this is not the way to go about it, because odds are you will fail.

First yes it is possible for you to become a Pro musician, and if you do it right, you won't need to be a starving artist

Step 1
Realise that this is really what you want, and theres nothing else that will satisfy you. Know your reason why you want to become a pro musician.

Step 2
Find MENTORS, someone who is doing what you want to do and can teach you what you need to do specifically. Don't take advice from anyone who haven't walk the path you want to walk.
A lot of people have opinion but know very little of the matter.

Step 3
Work smart and work hard.

-

If you know that this is what you want, and your parent can't accept it, and you want to stay in good terms with them, fine do what they say, just be smart about it, pick something that works direcly with your plan of becoming a pro musician, And it doesn't have to be even related to music but will be of very much help to reach your music goals. This is not necessary but if your parent are firm then you won't be totally wasting your time pursuing something that is unfulfilling.

Good luck!
#25
Quote by Billie_J
Alright. Thanks for the replies and help, especially the one with the long ass reply, lol. I managed to change my parents' minds. But yes, I shall continue as it is.

And now something extra. Would you regard being famous as an interval that is actually fun for a certain interval. After this you just think that it's just a burden with which you'll have to cope? Like, it might sound cool in the beginning but in the end it's just a heft.

Some three hundred year old book on music instruction...
Perhaps the hope of future riches and possessions induces you to choose this life? If this is the case, believe me you must change your mind; not Pluto but Apollo rules Parnassus. Whoever wants riches must take another path.


(Apollo being the patron god of music (among other things), Parnassus being the home of the Muses and thus the home of poetry and music, Plutus the god of wealth).

Throughout history only a very few musicians have ever become famous and fewer still rich.

Speculating on how hard life would be if you were famous and whether it is the life for you is not a consideration when contemplating the pursuit of a life in music. Instead you should be considering how hard life will be with little to no money and no one ever having heard of you. If can accept the latter in pursuit of perfecting your art then you may find happiness in a life dedicated to music.
Si
#26
^This.

We don't do this for us, or to be well-liked and famous. We do it because being alive is supposed to mean more than breathing and swallowing food, and existence is already annoying enough, there's no reason to do it in a world without music.

Or I do anyway. Always the emotional pragmatist.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#27
Think it, feel it and do it!

That is the key to all success.

However a being a musician and getting paid is something that rarely connects!

You need songs that people want to pay for to hear! And you need to build your fan base! The earlier the better.

The better you do that the closer you come to do it full time for life. Along the way music industry or people with marketing knowledge comes along. Have a lawyer present before signing anything.

As for parents move out and tell them you are your own man! Stick to the goal of anytime 24/7 365 days a year.

No drugs and keep the drinking under control.
#29
This.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#30
Dont lesson to these **** tards! Im a senior in HS and i am moving to LA to pursue a music career and im going to. The main thing is to keep that fire in your belly burning and never give up no matter what ANYBODY says. But one thing is for sure you cant make it playing in a garage you have to keep getting yourself out there. I plan on playing on record labels door steps. The people that said it cant be done arent trying hard enough they may put something on youtube and play one gig every three months but they dont want it bad enough. This is pissing me off that people are just like no cant be done cant happen. My parents are exactly like that but you know i got a job when i was 14 and saved money and still saving to move to LA. Just remember do what you wanna do and dont give up and never listen to this assholes who put you down. Let that fuel you to keep going cause you cant rub it in there face when you do it and never have a ounce of doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#31
So keep your attitude in check there mattousley.

Do you really think all the people that didn't make it in the music world just "didn't want it enough"?

You have to be hungry to make it, but the reality is there are a lot of people just as hungry and most of them starve. If you interpret that as implying: "you can't make it don't even bother trying" then you're an idiot.

It's a reality check, a warning and that's all. The life is hard and few succeed. You have to work your ass off. It may take ten years, or it may take more, it may never even happen at all. Not because you want it less than anyone else but just because that's the way the chips fall for you - some things in life really are beyond your control. Knowing all this, if you still want to pursue a life in music then go hard and no one wants you to fail. There's no point blowing smoke up someone's ass and if their main concern seems to be whether fame is a burden or a blessing then they come across as living in la-la land and a reality check is warranted.

Same goes for you. You have the right attitude you have to get yourself out there, kick in doors, make connections, and get yourself heard. To make it you have to put in the work and make your own opportunities. You should be talking to people and researching what it takes to make it and developing a plan accordingly.

Still there is an element of luck involved and no guarantee that your hard work will pay off. You do it in the hope that you can make yourself stand out among the other 600 broke musicians lined up outside that record execs front door to play him their song when he goes out to get his morning paper. And you put yourself though all that because you love music and because you want to make a living doing what you love. You do it because living with the regret of letting that dream die inside you without ever trying is more painful than being a broke artist for years giving it everything you've got with the possibility that it is all for nothing.

I'm not saying that you can't make it, I'm not even saying that you probably won't. I'm just saying you need to be prepared. The road is hard, concerning yourself with the trivialities of fame at this stage is absurd.

Also, all the posts I read in this thread are by and large positive. They all tell the TS that he can make it as a world class musician AND have academic success. He doesn't need to give everything up and move to LA. It is one path but not the only one. You can make it from anywhere in the world and you don't have to give up everything else in your life to make it. How is that discouraging? It seems quite the opposite to me.

So before you go around calling people ****tard and asshole pull your head in buddy.
Si
#32
Quote by mattousley
Dont lesson to these **** tards! Im a senior in HS and i am moving to LA to pursue a music career and im going to. The main thing is to keep that fire in your belly burning and never give up no matter what ANYBODY says.
.....
The people that said it cant be done arent trying hard enough they may put something on youtube and play one gig every three months but they dont want it bad enough


All the more power to you dude, it's good you have goals and a plan to achieve them.

However nobody in this thread said that TS couldn't become a success, or that it "can't be done", or anything that you're saying. You'll have to read the posts before answering again.

Furthermore, if you think that the all of the regulars here only do one gig every three months plus a youtube video every now and then, you'd be incorrect.

It sounds like you have everything in order and you're ready to rock. Can I access your guitar portfolio anywhere? Or a link to your band?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
Last edited by AlanHB at Feb 20, 2015,
#33
Quote by mattousley
I plan on playing on record labels door steps.

Good luck with that. I've always heard good things about the 60s, it's great to see people still living there
#34
Quote by mattousley
Dont lesson to these **** tards! Im a senior in HS and i am moving to LA to pursue a music career and im going to.



Do you understand how many other musicians are doing the same exact thing in L.A? Well if you don't maybe you'll get a reality check when you actually start doing what you say you're going to do. Not "everyone" isn't putting in the work or playing gigs on a daily basis, and no one ever said that the TS couldn't make it. It just seems to me like you need a reality check mate. Like I always say easier said than done. There's 1000's of session musicians, and audio engineers located in L.A.


I'm pretty sure the majority of those session musicians are in bands too, and can play a wide variety of styles. My question to you is how many styles do you know how to play? In addition It just seems like to me that you have a really arrogant unrealistic attitude going about this whole thing. You're not just going to make it in "one day". There's many people that have been doing this whole thing for longer than you were alive, and they're still struggling. Maybe one day you'll drop the arrogant attitude, and understand how things in real life tend to work out.
Last edited by Black_devils at Feb 20, 2015,
#35
Quote by Black_devils
Do you understand how many other musicians are doing the same exact thing in L.A? Well if you don't maybe you'll get a reality check when you actually start doing what you say you're going to do. Not "everyone" isn't putting in the work or playing gigs on a daily basis, and no one ever said that the TS couldn't make it. It just seems to me like you need a reality check mate. Like I always say easier said than done. There's 1000's of session musicians, and audio engineers located in L.A.


I'm pretty sure the majority of those session musicians are in bands too, and can play a wide variety of styles. My question to you is how many styles do you know how to play? In addition It just seems like to me that you have a really arrogant unrealistic attitude going about this whole thing. You're not just going to make it in "one day". There's many people that have been doing this whole thing for longer than you were alive, and they're still struggling. Maybe one day you'll drop the arrogant attitude, and understand how things in real life tend to work out.



Seems like this kinda turned about me and i wasnt trying to do that at all ..but I read one that was not really that motivating and that was enough to put my two cents in it
#36
Dude, you can do both...I went to school and have a career and I never stopped playing music. Check out my website which shows my career in Information Technology AND my music!

ARealRockStory.com
#37
Quote by mattousley
Seems like this kinda turned about me and i wasnt trying to do that at all ..but I read one that was not really that motivating and that was enough to put my two cents in it



I can understand where you're coming from, but your post came off as brash, and arrogant. If you want to be a great musician you have to remain humble because you can never know too much or have too many skill sets. Get where i'm coming from? You can't get to point C if you're not even at point A. Is what i'm trying to say, and that's the type of vibe that i'm getting from your post. Like "making" it in music is so easy. To tell you the truth it isn't I've met a lot of people with your type of attitude.


They're more of the "talk" type instead of the putting in work type. All I can say is I'll believe it when I see it. Of course anything is possible, but it takes work ethic, discipline, and a lot of spirit. I can see that you're very enthusiastic, but the best advice I can give you for now is to remain humble, and to have a realist mentality learn to see both sides of the coin instead of one.
Last edited by Black_devils at Feb 20, 2015,
#38
Quote by mattousley
Dont lesson to these **** tards! Im a senior in HS and i am moving to LA to pursue a music career and im going to. The main thing is to keep that fire in your belly burning and never give up no matter what ANYBODY says. But one thing is for sure you cant make it playing in a garage you have to keep getting yourself out there. I plan on playing on record labels door steps. The people that said it cant be done arent trying hard enough they may put something on youtube and play one gig every three months but they dont want it bad enough. This is pissing me off that people are just like no cant be done cant happen. My parents are exactly like that but you know i got a job when i was 14 and saved money and still saving to move to LA. Just remember do what you wanna do and dont give up and never listen to this assholes who put you down. Let that fuel you to keep going cause you cant rub it in there face when you do it and never have a ounce of doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It's good to dream. Never stop dreaming and keep the music alive but remember you always gotta eat or things fall apart pretty quickly. A college degree gives you choices so you will always be able to eat.

Two of my current band mates have major tour experience and another 1/2 dozen friends have international tour experience, major label recordings, film and TV soundtracks and are currently session musicians in LA. They all love music still but hate the biz and never made any serious money from their music. You have also never heard of them although if you ever watched sitcoms or Comedy Central you heard their work.

Another 1/2 dozen friends were supremely talented and chased their dream but the harsh realities in LA broke their spirit. They ended up bitter and broken with few choices as music was the only thing they knew. A few were lost to drug OD, some are currently homeless, and one managed to get a job with the water company and is doing ok. He is still an amazing guitarist. It can get pretty rough out there.

Of all the guys in my circle of friends this one probably had the most $$ success and still says the music biz robbed him every day. We keep in touch and get together for jams now and then. Great drummer, good guitarist and singer songwriter. He never made big $$ but worked his ass off every day and made "enough". He did it the hard way and depended on music full time. He has two kids and both have strong musical talent but he "insists" they get a college degree before pursuing their dream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Danzeisen
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Feb 20, 2015,
#39
Quote by mattousley
Seems like this kinda turned about me and i wasnt trying to do that at all ..but I read one that was not really that motivating and that was enough to put my two cents in it


I don't think anything has really turned around - you've said that everyone here was discouraging TS from pursuing music, and that we're not dedicated musicians. You on the other hand keep the dream alive and are destined to be megasuccessful. Pretty straightfoward.

At least two of us have asked for evidence of what you've done so far with your music. Do you have any links to your music or band? If you have the slightest bit of interest from the guy on his doorstep he'll ask "what have you done"? I'm asking the same.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
Last edited by AlanHB at Feb 20, 2015,
#40
Quote by AndrewHutzMusic
I think it really depends on what your famous for and who you're famous to. I'd rather be famous to serious musicians for creative playing and advancing the state of guitar music than be famous world wide for making radio hits. Super fame also means no privacy. Think about Steve Vai. He is extremely famous amongst guitarists for his technical skill, versatility and dedication, but if you ask the average person, they'll be like, "whos that?" Basically, I'd rather have 20,000 fans who genuinely care about and respect my work, than 20,000,000 for whom I'm just the flavor of the week.


Steve always says he wishes he could have more commercial success, he's been trying for a hit for decades.
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