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#1
I like to remix video game music but would like to try something a bit different. You see, I was in the JetPenguin's UG projects and want to try it myself. I'll take three volunteer melodies and mix it into something surreal. I'll also need something I can turn into a good beat. I'm going mix everything my way but I promise to add everyone who helped to the credits of the song. Anyone want to help. The beat (which I'd like soon) I had in mind is a sleazy yet catchy one (like Katz Theme).

Katz Theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bQPxeL7GgM

Edit: I'd like the format to be like 16 bars of MIDI (I use Musescore and FL Studio for remixes).
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Jan 31, 2015,
#2
I can give you a melody (or three) but I'm not quite sure how to give it to you in midi
Quote by jpnyc
You are what they call a “rhythm guitarist”. While it's not as glamorous as playing lead you can still get laid. Especially if you can sing and play.




Beer is the solutions to the world's problems.

#3
If you can read sheet music (even a little), you can use Musescore (it's a free notation program I use) to input the melody and it will even make it midi for you. Thanks for volunteering. I already have a foundation for the song.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#4
I guess I can try and give a melody. Do you have something specific in mind? Mood, tempo, etc? Or it can be whatever?
#5
Quote by RonaldPoe
If you can read sheet music (even a little), you can use Musescore (it's a free notation program I use) to input the melody and it will even make it midi for you. Thanks for volunteering. I already have a foundation for the song.


Cool, will work it out. Any timeline on this? I'll be a bit caught up with work, but I'll give it a shot.
Quote by jpnyc
You are what they call a “rhythm guitarist”. While it's not as glamorous as playing lead you can still get laid. Especially if you can sing and play.




Beer is the solutions to the world's problems.

#6
I don't really have any theme in mind but I'd like at least one of the melodies to have rhythms similar to "Katz Theme". Maybe a circus theme would be cool, LOL. As for time schedule, I'd say as soon as you can.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#7
Hi Poe, I've got a melody down, can you pm your email id to me?
Quote by jpnyc
You are what they call a “rhythm guitarist”. While it's not as glamorous as playing lead you can still get laid. Especially if you can sing and play.




Beer is the solutions to the world's problems.

#8
Sweet, thanks for your help and contribution. My Email is TCzyzMaster@Gmail.com (use that or PM me the MIDIs).
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#9
RonaldPoe, I sent you a pm with the thing. Let me know if you have any problems.
#10
Thanks Lersch, I like it a lot. It reminds me of Sly Cooper (I was a fan of the series). I think it works great for the remix.

Edit: I've finished a remix of our melody and "Xehanort Theme" (Kingdom Hearts BBS) called "Coonort" (I named it after Xehanort and Sly Cooper).
https://soundcloud.com/dark-ronald-poe/coonort
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Feb 3, 2015,
#11
You are very fast and that's most definitely surreal. Never heard of Sly Cooper, gonna have to check that out.
#12
Thanks, I usually have some ideas laying around to adapt. It might not seem like it but I put like 7 different basslines (the usual) in there and lots of nuances. I'm as serious and caring of my remixes as I am eccentric. Tell me if you think it was any good (I like the result) and if you'd like to collaborate again. Thanks so much for your help (both the melody and getting me out of a creative block).

Also Sly Cooper was a fun little platformer series for PlayStation 2 about a Raccoon Thief. It's got memorable characters and nice atmosphere with fun gameplay (except the disguises in Sly 3). However I was disappointed with the fourth game (there was like a 7 year wait for a game that's worse than the previous entry). All the first three games were re-released for PS3 and Vita (they cost under $20) but the fourth game is for those consoles. If you're a gamer and have time to spare, I'd recommend checking them out.

Sorry just wanted to explain what Sly Cooper is. The resemblances between the score and your melody are uncanny. Have a nice day.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#13
What is your process?

Do you take your melodies put them together and then add stuff until you feel finished?

Do you take your melodies and transpose them into the same key?

Do you look at the bars of the melody and determine what harmony they suggest by looking at the strong notes in that bar and then build your bassline accordingly?

If you have two (or more) melodies that you have ensured are in the same key but suggest conflicting harmonies in a bar or two do you alter one or both of the melodies to have them work in harmony? Or to ensure that you balance the dissonance with consonant resolution?

Do you have a goal in mind? Somewhere you want it to go?

Possibly the most important aspect of creating an engaging piece of art is contrast. When you are working on a piece do you consider how you are going to introduce contrast into your piece to give it depth?

To be honest I personally found the piece very busy, too dissonant, and somewhat monotonous. There is too much going and much of the foreground is repeated over and over which at the very least gives the listener some straws to clutch while they try to decipher the melody which feels kind of buried under a lack of consonant supporting harmony. Sorry I don't mean to be harsh but that's just one guys opinion.

What I like? You're clearly passionate and you get on and DO IT. That's a huge step. I have so much unfinished work that it is ridiculous. You have unique taste, an original style, and aren't afraid to experiment which is also good. But at the same time it can make the work inaccessible to others. The new can be exciting when the listener has something familiar to ground them. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds had, what was at the time, a pretty ethereal and bizarre soundscape but it had two things going for it. A clear melody and a very familiar easily and instantly accessible chorus. (Contrast the exotic with the familiar).

You should try purely as an exercise to remix it again with a specific goal of keeping it clean and focusing on consonant harmony. There is no need to introduce all the elements at once. Start with something simple and piece by piece build it up to a storm before stripping it all away right at the end.

Then go through and do a third version. This time choose your main melody. Examine the melody and look for chord tones on the strong beats (1 and 3 in 4/4 time). What chords do they fit in? Don't be extravagant - try to stick with triads. Then at the top of each bar write the chords. Use those chords to guide your bassline - again stick initially with the root notes on the strong beat and then fill in the bassline so that it leads logically from one note to the next in key. If the other melodies or the themes that you are using are in a different key - transpose them to the correct key. Then go through bar by bar and ensure they fit with your chords. If they are suggesting a conflicting chord then don't be afraid to take the fragment of melody in that bar and move it all up or down so that the strong notes fall on a chord tone (look to harmonize with the other notes in thirds if you can) you may then need to move the odd note in the melody to ensure it is still in key. Alternatively instead of moving the whole fragment up or down you might decide just to alter a note or two on the strong beat to the nearest chord tone. This might mean you have to move one or two of the surrounding notes so that the melody still flows. Try to have a clear beginning middle and end. Maybe have one melody at the start then modulate to a new key for a middle section where you introduce the second melody or theme while having the first melody playing a supportive role (obviously transposed to the new key and maybe altered slightly here and there in order to fit the new chord progression or stripping it back a bit to retain it's basic character while giving it a backseat).

You may find challenges in doing these things and that is a good thing. You also may end up with results that you find too ordinary for your tastes, but it is a good exercise. You want to be able to write "ordinary" if you need in order to make your more exotic and experimental adventures stand out (contrast!!).

Whatever you do...just keep at it.

Sorry for the lack of paragraphs I would revise and fix that but my computer is at 7% battery so I gotta go.

peace.
Si
#14
Quote by RonaldPoe
Tell me if you think it was any good (I like the result) and if you'd like to collaborate again. Thanks so much for your help (both the melody and getting me out of a creative block).

About collaborating, of course. The UG collaboration threads are what made me actually be more (well, just a little) active in this forum, although I was always checking it out. I'm also in a creative rut, it's actually been a few months now. Very frustrating.
About the remix, I do agree with some points 20Tigers made:
Quote by 20Tigers
To be honest I personally found the piece very busy, too dissonant, and somewhat monotonous. There is too much going and much of the foreground is repeated over and over which at the very least gives the listener some straws to clutch while they try to decipher the melody which feels kind of buried under a lack of consonant supporting harmony.

Honestly, the dissonance doesn't bother me, but I felt that there was too much going on at the same time. You said you put 7 different basslines in it and nuances. I can't hear it! And if that's the case, what's the point? (Sorry if it sounds harsh, I don't really have a way with words).

Quote by 20Tigers
What I like? You're clearly passionate and you get on and DO IT. That's a huge step. I have so much unfinished work that it is ridiculous.

Yes. I have hundreds upon hundreds of ideas between guitar pro, cellphone recordings messing around with a DAW and some of it are just concepts. None of it is finished
Quote by 20Tigers
You have unique taste, an original style, and aren't afraid to experiment which is also good. But at the same time it can make the work inaccessible to others. The new can be exciting when the listener has something familiar to ground them.

I love experimentation in music. About 3 years ago, my musical views changed completely, and I started to listen to more and more "different" music (for the lack of a bette word). Also, I think I'm one of the few people who listened to an atonal piece for the first time and thought "hey, I kinda like that" but I also listen to a lot of "normal" music (again, words. Also, I don't really classify music that way, but whatevs). Your remix, however, feels completely strange to me, and while I like that it feels that way, I also feel that it doesn't go anywhere. I don't know what you were trying to express, what feeling you were trying to convey, stuff like that. And that, for me, makes it sound monotonous, like 20Tigers said. It's kinda hard to explain what I'm thinking, honestly. It doesn't feel finished? It feels like a prototype. I'm not trying to disencourage you, just offering another perspective.

I feel like I'm rambling at this point, and it's late here so I'm gonna stop. Just read 20Tigers's post, he explains it better than me

EDIT: in regards to contrast, listen to Aphex Twin's songs Flim and Girl/Boy Song. The melody is very simple, but the drums, the "beat" if you will, is almost relentless, and full of nuances. Just something that I thought you might be interested.
Last edited by Lersch at Feb 5, 2015,
#15
You two have some interesting criticisms that I really do appreciate. It's true that this one was a little monotonous and I don't think it got that sneaky feeling right. I honestly don't really know how to write "consonant harmony" and keep it fresh. Do you have any pointers or guides for that. However I have arranged that piece for piano (took what I thought would be the main melody on treble and Lersch's melody on bass) and it does sound a little too repetitive.

Also my approach is to take two nice melodies and place them into their instruments. Then I find another one for the percussion/beat and repeat that main beat for all the parts. Next I get a bunch of barely related basslines and separate them into different parts (Each part is its own file). Finally I put all the parts into Audacity and mix them into a song. All parts have the same tempo (usually 120), otherwise it would fall apart. This approach creates a uniquely surreal atheistic that's personal to me.

That's my approach but I'm wondering how I can make my style more consonant.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#16
Let me ask a more personal question, how do you listen to music Ronald? What do you find interesting?
Last edited by GoldenGuitar at Feb 6, 2015,
#17
Quote by RonaldPoe

That's my approach but I'm wondering how I can make my style more consonant.

Reduce the number of your bass lines (or any type of melody line you're going to use) and listen how they relate to each other. Listen to the consonances and dissonances they make.
#18
GoldenGuitar, those are some thought provoking questions. To answer the first one, I either play video games or go on Youtube (I get suggestions from a bunch of sources or my own taste). As for what I find interesting, that's a tough one. That's mostly a matter of taste and I have a very diverse one. Quite a few of my influences have little to nothing in common except talent. I am a fan of Buckethead, Voltaire, Metallica, Dethklok (the band from Metalocalypse), and Yoko Shimomura (the composer for Kingdom Hearts) among others.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#19
I should clarify, what I mean by "what do you find interesting" applies to how you listen to your music more than what you listen to. What aspects and parameters do you find interesting in the music you like? We all listen to the same piece of music quite differently, I'm trying to get a feel for how you personally perceive sound.
#20
Yeah this also interests me. How does the Ronald Brain think about music?

Also, like Elintasokas said, you should be able to make it interesting with one chord, if necessary.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#21
Oh that's what you meant, sorry. Here's my first opinion on "Boy/Girl Song" by Aphex Twin (someone mentioned it earlier). I find the melody to be boring (sounds like generic classical filler) but the beats are great. I find myself listening to the drums more than the melody because they stand out more and sound much more interesting. It tricks you into thinking its a boring song before bombarding you with great beats. Aphex Twin is definitely ten times more talented than I am.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZs5PVcwBs

Also can someone send me a melody with rhythms like "Katz Theme". Hi JetPengiun, hope you're doing fine.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Feb 6, 2015,
#22
I'm doing good bud, lots of school stuff keeping me from getting any music done, as usual.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#23
Before I try to be more subtle, I decided to vent my insanity on a Christian Hymn ("Our God Reigns"). Before you ask, I am a Christian and this remix is just a demo. Who wants to play a game of find the chord progression (one that will suit and capture the mix)?

https://soundcloud.com/dark-ronald-poe/reign-of-god-demo
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#24
You know Ronald, I never know what you're thinking. Care to enlighten me as to what you were trying to achieve in this remix?
#25
I was going for a holy, triumphant feel and venting some of my vast musical insanity. I'm also a Christian and sometimes remix hymns so I can arrange them for my future band (it helps me get gigs in church). That's all. So what kinda chord progression would best capture this song?

Also I'm currently working on a tribute theme/remix for Axel/Lea (Kingdom Hearts).
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Feb 10, 2015,
#26
Do you feel like you managed to capture the feel you were going for?
Also me just giving you a chord progression would be pointless, since there is more to how I think about music than just harmony over melody. Also, our musical language is completely different so there's not really a point.
#27
Quote by RonaldPoe
I don't really have any theme in mind but I'd like at least one of the melodies to have rhythms similar to "Katz Theme". Maybe a circus theme would be cool, LOL. As for time schedule, I'd say as soon as you can.
Hey If your still wanting things to mix up, I put together a random few bars for ya!
Sorry I didn't know how to do the midi thing, so I took a screenshot from TUX Guitar program, maybe you can punch it into your midi program yourself from the jpeg?
I tried to make a sleazy circus type theme like you mention, but I don't know it's a bit weird, anyway here's what I got:
#28
Looks nice, please send me the Tux-guitar file then (Tux Guitar comes with a Midi converter).
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#30
You just send me the file you used to create that melody. How'd you create the melody and did you save the file?
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#31
Quote by RonaldPoe
You just send me the file you used to create that melody. How'd you create the melody and did you save the file?
All good I was trying to find an attachment here on UG until I discovered your email... so I sent you the .tg (tux guitar) file through that way!
#32
Tonibet72, thanks for the melody (I really like it), it compliments the "Mantis Hymn" (Metal Gear Solid) really well. In fact, I've already remixed the two and they turned out great (in my opinion). The idea was "What if Psycho Mantis went to 'The Greatest Show on Earth'". As for my true approach it's the same excuse Adachi used in Persona 4 (to paraphrase "Because I can, cause it's fun").

https://soundcloud.com/dark-ronald-poe/carnival-mantis
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#33
The metal gear solid "hymn" is somewhat distinguishable, as are the blips that I presume are kick drums.

The 7 basslines and tonibet's melody really seem to be melding together to create an overall ambience rather than any kind of melody or harmony. Even then the hymn is not clearly in the forefront but is just standing out a bit and still slightly masked by the rest of it.

Again there is no beginning middle and end. The middle is very much the same as the start and the end is very much the same as the middle. There is no melodic or harmonic development and no contrast.

It sounds very very similar to most everything else you've posted and so the novelty factor wears off. You need to get out of your comfort zone and try something new. New for you might be trying something just plain run of the mill.

If you're not sure how to approach it send me the stems and I'll do something with it and explain my thought process throughout. I tried to help by offering some advice in my previous post but you haven't taken any of it on board. I'm not saying you have to follow my advice for everything I just wanted to see if you could do it once.

I kind of get the feeling you are really not to sure of what you are doing and just put stuff randomly together until it creates a noise you kind of think is a bit out there and strange.

If you are going to shun the more familiar sounds completely in order to head in your own direction that's great, but you're going to have to figure a lot of stuff out on your own and branch outside of your comfort zone in order to evolve. I don't see you doing that at the moment. (and many of those things that will take years of trial and error to figure out are already well established concepts). Learning and trying them out doesn't mean you have to use them everytime or ever again - but it means you can if you have to.

I hope this isn't too harsh. I like to encourage people. I just don't know how else I can help.
Si
#34
Thanks 20Tigers for the critique (I'm not offended at all by it), but I don't quite understand what you guys mean by "contrast". I think a lot of the elements are different but I can tell that's not what you guys mean. So how do you suggest I progress in more conventional way? How would I create an ending without shunning the basic melody? Also I make my own stems out of midi, so yeah.

Also the original "Mantis Hymn" sounds like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMasLUmBzkc
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Feb 12, 2015,
#35
Look Ronald, at the end of the day whether you create contrast or not, it's not about that. It's really more that your arrangements lacks logic. You can write experimental and textural music, but if your audience cannot follow the idea, then it's just randomly putting things together without considering how these sounds interact with each other.

Heck, I wrote a piece with 15 guitars all playing different things but I understood audience perception and crafted it so that it was easy to follow. Even if the music was eventually dense and textural, the concept was easy to follow. If you'd like to know what I mean, I can PM the link to you or something (or anyone else reading).
Last edited by GoldenGuitar at Feb 13, 2015,
#36
GoldenGuitar, I definitely want to know how you managed to make 15 guitar harmony easy to follow (how is that even possible). Believe it or not, I actually have trouble choosing a melody because some just sound bad with certain ideas.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#37
By contrast I mean not just between elements occurring at the same time but contrast over time. There are a ton of ways you can achieve contrast. Changes in key, changes in rhythm, changes in dynamics, changes in orchestration, changes in tempo etc and a whole lot of other things. Usually this would be between different sections, changes in the song that happen over time.

Also seven basslines is bit much. Just on account of the fact that bass notes tend to have a lot more audible overtones and the frequencies are a lot slower which means dissonances are even uglier down there and even consonant harmonies can add mud. Thus a lot of bass together (such as seven basslines) is something that is very very difficult to mix with the hopes of providing any clarity. Personally I would avoid such a situation at all costs. Layering is a different story. Layering might see you use seven bass tracks but not necessarily seven bass lines.

If I wrote down some clear directions for you would you follow them - just as an experiment - and post the results? The directions would be a step by step on writing a very generic sounding song. The goal would not be to then use it as some kind of template but simply to go through the experience in order to learn. Doing so should help with thinking about things like structure, harmony, melody, contrast etc.

If I were to do this it would take me, at the very least, a solid half a day. That time would be spread over several days when I get spare time (so maybe this time next week).

I wouldn't want to waste my time though, so...if you think you are interested you would have to give me an upfront commitment that you would follow the directions exactly and post the results afterwards.

If you know yourself well enough to know you wouldn't stick to the instructions then I'd rather you say that upfront, I would appreciate and respect your honesty actually. On the other hand, if I took the time to do it and you didn't stick to the process, I would feel very disrespected. I just want to be clear upfront so that if you are interested - we are both on the same page going in.

Also, how's your theory? Do you have any familiarity with the concepts of voice leading, harmonic function, diatonic chord substitution, intervals, cadences, chord construction etc?

Edit: Ronald - what kind of DAW do you use? Just out of curiosity.

Edit: GoldenGuitar - yeah I'd give it a listen PM me the link.
Si
#39
I think it'd be a good experiment but how generic are we speaking. I still want it to have more intelligence and effort than the crap someone like Ke$ha would release (I have surprisingly high standards for my music). Give me an idea before I agree or disagree. I'd try my best to go through with it.

Edit: Thanks for the PM, GoldenGuitar. Let's get this started, 20Tigers.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Feb 12, 2015,
#40
Quote by RonaldPoe
How'd you create the melody?
Hey Ronald umm..
I wouldn't even call it a melody, more like random wannabe circus sounding analtonal mumbo-jumbo, I came up with the repetitive whacked out chord (off the top of my head, not caring if it made theoretical sense - I couldn't even identify what to call the chord), and slapped a tritone like bass line beneath it and it kinda resembled "The Simpson's" theme, so I threw a whole tone scale at it, then chromatically shifted things up in semi-tones and used my ears to try make things work and added the preschool "nah na-nah nan nah nah" taunt over it followed by some random attempt at a "slippery/sleazy" type sound, using harmonised chromatics (again just using my ears and experimentation till something sounded okay), and keeping to the theme of annoyance, what better way, than to loop it a couple times, actually I ran out of ideas at that point to make 16 bars, (I wanted to add a Benny Hill, Looney Tunes and traditional circus type sections to it but couldn't get out of the tritone theme already created, and didn't want to just toss it in the bin, so I settled for a "Ren and Stimpy" type ending to it! considering I had covered both requirements you had asked for in one of your thread posts.
So there you have it, and in case you missed it, No, there was no CST involved, no key centre (if there was? it was beyond me), it was all just literally off the top of my head!!
Hey you asked!
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