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#1
I've recently been debating whether or not I want to upgrade my amp and put new pickups in my guitar( believe me it needs it) or just get a new guitar.

Usually this would be an easy decision for me, except for the fact that I only have one guitar currently, which prevents me from playing all of the lowtuned music I like. So I need some advice, do I get a new amp and pickups, or do I get the new guitar?

I would be putting an EMG 81/60 combo in my guitar and getting a used, or saving a bit for a new, Peavey 6505+ combo. The alternative being that I get an LTD TE 406 or maybe but probably not an LTD EX 360 just because I like Metallica.

I'm currently using an Epiphone Les Paul Standard through a Fender Mustang. The cleans sund fine, but the distortion sounds weird and artificial. I could post an audio clip if that would help.
Thanks.
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Feb 2, 2015,
#2
If it plays well, then sort out your tone. The trick is to arrange your setlist so you have to retune as infrequently as possible. You've got a fixed bridge so it should be too hard to do.
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#4
Another question, if the only thing i really dislike about my amp is the distortion then can i just get a pedal for that? Or is it in no way the same?
#6
If the 6505 is the sound you want, then buy a 6505.
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#7
I'm not sure the 6505 IS the sound I want, people have told me that it sounds good and I've heard demos and stuff. But I would mainly use it for playing Metallica, can it get a good MoP era tone? I wanna get something similar to that tone without selling my left leg for a triple rectifier.
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Feb 2, 2015,
#8
A used Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 perhaps. You'll get a good variety of sounds (especially if you have a tendency towards metal) plus a nice step up from the Mustang.
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#9
^^ (@ Cheeseshark) Well they used a Mesa Mark IIC on Master of Puppets, if I've got my facts right. Those sound way different than a Triple Rec.

But anyway, I do think you need a new amp. Your amp was just not designed for metal and it'll be hard to get a passable metal tone out of it. As for 6505s, see if you can try one out. The lead channel goes above and beyond anything done by Metallica (heavier and more gainy/brutal). But the rhythm channel with crunch engaged and the gain turned up pretty high can get close to their earlier records, especially with passive pickups, oddly enough (both James and Kirk have used active EMGs for most of their careers.

It really depends on how closely you need to get to their tone. I will tell you that I'm 99% sure you'll like a 6505 better than your Fender for the tones you're after. But explore other options as well.
Last edited by KailM at Feb 2, 2015,
#10
Well a guitar center near me has at least one 6505 in stock, so hopefully i can try it out soon. I've heard that one or more members of Metallica actually used an SD Invader in the bridge, is this true?
#11
Quote by KillRoy Ver 3.0
A used Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 perhaps. You'll get a good variety of sounds (especially if you have a tendency towards metal) plus a nice step up from the Mustang.

Looks kinda cool, I'm trying to avoid getting another modeling amp. Correct if I'm wrong, but doesn't the guitar have little to no effect on the sound? That kinda bugs me.
#12
The guitar generally has less of an effect on your tone then your amp does. Your amp is where most of the tone work is done. Your guitar is still important enough to matter though, i.e. you wouldn't want to use single coils for metal.
#13
MoP was a Mesa Mk 2C. Any Mesa Mark should get you close enough to keep you happy.
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
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#14
yeah the pickupd are going to be a marginal improvement, for probably about 200 or so bucks. i dont know how much it takes to install EMGs. more? not going to get you that much.

spend those hundreds on the amp. amp is probably at least 70-80% of your tone. then effects. guitar the least.
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#15
Quote by Will Lane
The guitar generally has less of an effect on your tone then your amp does. Your amp is where most of the tone work is done. Your guitar is still important enough to matter though, i.e. you wouldn't want to use single coils for metal.


i use single coils for metal . i think what the OP is getting at is that modelers tend to kind of ignore the guitar being used and give you what it thinks the amp model being used should sound like. when i record using my POD ther tends to be very little difference when i use my strats. through a regualr amp you can hear a clear difference between my 2 strats but not so much with the POD.
#16
Vypers are different - analog modelling.
You still need a decent amp. Vyper Tube on the cheap, Mesa Mark if you can find one you can afford. Worry about pups after you get a decent amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Well I couldn't find a Mesa Mark that wasn't just a cabinet for around 600, didn't really expect to though.
I also have a couple more questions for you guys, do modeling amps, even tube ones, generally have inferior sounds to normal tube amps?
Is it recommended to buy a 6505 used or new?
Also I'm still totally open to new amp recommendations.
Thanks.
#18
Modeling amps are usually inferior to the real amp that the model tries to emulate. But they're darn good if you know what to get. Tube 60 might be your best bet for modeling.

If you can buy new, do that. If you can find a good condition used (keep in mind tube changes n' such) at a good price, go used c: If you're able to get the 6505 nevertheless, get that rather than the Tube 60.
Last edited by Will Lane at Feb 3, 2015,
#19
JSX/XXX/Ultra are worth looking for too.

Jet Cities are good too. Not gonna get you MoP but will get a good Soldano-like thrash tone. And they're cheap.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Feb 3, 2015,
#20
Quote by Cathbard
JSX/XXX/Ultra are worth looking for too.

Jet Cities are good too. Not gonna get you MoP but will get a good Soldano-like thrash tone. And they're cheap.


I have a JSX, 5150 and JCA50. I love them all for their subtle and sometimes more obvious differences. You aren't going to get exact MoP but you will get a great tone regardless of which one you pick. Some of it will also come down to speaker choice, but I suspect dealing with shenanigans in that realm aren't in your budget right now. I've noticed JSX's are awesomely cheap nowadays when they pop up on CL and it makes me cringe at what I got mine for. I find my JCA to be a beast FWIW, it can hang with everything.

And just because it hasn't been explicitly said: a new amp will make the biggest impact on your tone. I wouldn't suggest new pups at this point unless you're having some major issues with them.
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#21
I've heard people say that a certain level of maintenance is necessary when owning a tube amp. Do they mean changing the tubes or something else entirely?

Also can someone recommend settings to get a metallica thrash-ish tone for when I test the amp out? I've only ever used modeling amps so I can't really get a decent sound
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Feb 3, 2015,
#22
Quote by Cheeseshark
I've heard people say that a certain level of maintenance is necessary when owning a tube amp. Do they mean changing the tubes or something else entirely?

Also can someone recommend settings to get a metallica thrash-ish tone for when I test the amp out? I've only ever used modeling amps so I can't really get a decent sound


minimal. tubes last 5+ years on preamp and 3+ years on power on average. if you are beating the hell out of it and touring with it, that is a different scenario.

worst thing you have to do is bias them on some amps. simple if you know what you are doing, but don't do it if you don't, because you can get zapped. but easy once you know what you are doing.
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#23
Quote by trashedlostfdup
minimal. tubes last 5+ years on preamp and 3+ years on power on average. if you are beating the hell out of it and touring with it, that is a different scenario.

worst thing you have to do is bias them on some amps. simple if you know what you are doing, but don't do it if you don't, because you can get zapped. but easy once you know what you are doing.

Thanks man! If that's all then I see little reason for me not to get the amp then.
#24
Vypyr tube 60 is basically a pretty competent mid/hi gain modeling frontend mated to 1/2 of a 6505 style tube power section. (Vypyr 120 has the full monty)

Honestly it should do everything you want/need for quite a while.
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#25
Quote by Arby911
Vypyr tube 60 is basically a pretty competent mid/hi gain modeling frontend mated to 1/2 of a 6505 style tube power section. (Vypyr 120 has the full monty)

Honestly it should do everything you want/need for quite a while.

Right, forgot about that. Ok I'll look into that as well, thanks.
#26
Quote by Cathbard
JSX/XXX/Ultra are worth looking for too.

Jet Cities are good too. Not gonna get you MoP but will get a good Soldano-like thrash tone. And they're cheap.


agree but Ultras are getting hard to find and JSX and XXX aren't that cheap.
#27
Quote by monwobobbo
agree but Ultras are getting hard to find and JSX and XXX aren't that cheap.


someone on here the other found a JSX for under $400 and somebody else even cheaper.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
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#28
Quote by trashedlostfdup
someone on here the other found a JSX for under $400 and somebody else even cheaper.


damn where was i for under $400. not around here.
#29
Quote by monwobobbo
damn where was i for under $400. not around here.


IIRC in California, I am not sure though.

here it sucks too. +6505's are like $200 more since when I bought mine for $450 and sold for $500. I regret that. but I used the money for a splawn, so everything is good in the end.

look at used gc.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#30
Quote by trashedlostfdup
IIRC in California, I am not sure though.

here it sucks too. +6505's are like $200 more since when I bought mine for $450 and sold for $500. I regret that. but I used the money for a splawn, so everything is good in the end.

look at used gc.


i don't do online and probably wouldn't even bother to have GC ship one locally. if it is there wehn i go and i have the cash then i might buy it. my Ultra is doing me fine but i would like having sepreate tone controls on each channel.
#31
Quote by monwobobbo
i don't do online and probably wouldn't even bother to have GC ship one locally. if it is there wehn i go and i have the cash then i might buy it. my Ultra is doing me fine but i would lie having sepreate tone controls on each channel.


ahhhhh. yea. how do you like your ultra? I want to get one when one pops up cheap.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#32
Quote by trashedlostfdup
ahhhhh. yea. how do you like your ultra? I want to get one when one pops up cheap.


it works great for me. the active tone controls on the crunch and ultra channels give you a lot of options. i can get a pretty good humbucker tone out of my strat using it. for hard rock and metal it really delivers. clean channel isn't fender sparkle but works fine for my needs. my only real complaint is the shared eq for crunch/ultra channels. i tend to set both for rhythm tones and use an overdrive for the lead sounds. mine is a 2x12 so it is fairly heavy. got it for $350 from GC about a year and a half ago.
#33
Another question, to what degree does a pedal affect an amp's sound? Distortion in particular. If I were to set an amp to a clean setting and then run a distortion pedal through it, would it sound any different than when i do that with any other amp?
#34
Another question, if the only thing i really dislike about my amp is the distortion then can i just get a pedal for that? Or is it in no way the same?
Last edited by dsrhgsdhg at Feb 4, 2015,
#35
Quote by Cheeseshark
Another question, to what degree does a pedal affect an amp's sound? Distortion in particular. If I were to set an amp to a clean setting and then run a distortion pedal through it, would it sound any different than when i do that with any other amp?


If you get a high-gain tube amp you will find that 99% of all distortion pedals don't hold a candle to the amp's own distortion. You really need to go try some high-gain tube amps, dude. I don't think you know what you're missing.

I used to have a Boss Metalzone pedal and ran it through the clean channel of a Marshall MG (gulp -- what a shit-sandwich that was). Then I sold the Marshall and bought a 6505+. I originally thought I might have some use for the Metalzone but after 3 seconds of owning the Peavey I found that I was mistaken. The Metalzone (and pretty much all of the other "metal" distortion pedals I've ever tried = 1-2 dozen bees trapped in a small tin can.)

The 6505+, on the other hand = the sound an 800-pound grizzly bear makes when you slap it across the face with a cricket bat.
Last edited by KailM at Feb 4, 2015,
#36
Quote by Cheeseshark
Another question, to what degree does a pedal affect an amp's sound? Distortion in particular. If I were to set an amp to a clean setting and then run a distortion pedal through it, would it sound any different than when i do that with any other amp?


yeah the amp (and speakers) will affect how the pedal sounds.
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#37
if you decide to go with the Vypyr tube 60, then suggest you get the sanpera pedal with it. Im sure there are many songs you like which have brutal distortion and smooth cleans (master of puppets, sanitarium, etc. ) and will want to be able to play those songs without having to stop playing and push a button to switch channels. The sanpera pedal solves that problem and gives you presets, volume pedal, wah pedal, tuner, pitch shifter, and a looper. Gets rid f alot of headaches with this particular amp.

Quote by KailM


I used to have a Boss Metalzone pedal and ran it through the clean channel of a Marshall MG (gulp -- what a shit-sandwich that was).


that sounds utterly terrifying.
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#38
just to add, if you go with something like a jet city amp, then its a good idea to get an OD pedal such as a tubescreamer in order to get a metallica tone. Distortion pedals =/= overdrive pedals. Distortion pedal will sound like ass.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
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Fender GDC-200sce
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#39
One person sorta mentioned this already, but can you get a Metallica thrash-y tone out of a 6505? Or is it mostly good for more br00tl stuff like Cannibal Corpse, Death, Suffocation, and other death metal?

Also would the 6505 be too loud for bedroom playing? That's most of/all it will be used for in the near future.
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Feb 4, 2015,
#40
^^Yes, it will do a thrashy tone and beyond if you want it. As I explained earlier, the "clean" channel is for cleans, but has a crunch switch that gives it a fair amount of overdrive, especially if you turn up the gain. If you get a footswitch like the Boss FS-6, you can effectively make the 6505+ to be a 3-channel amp. Clean, crunch all the way to fairly heavy distortion, and then the lead channel is all-out brutality.

I find that the rhythm channel with the crunch switch engaged + preamp gain turned up pretty high does the old-school Metallica sound the best. But I sometimes play Metallica songs with the lead channel and don't give a F---- if it sounds just like the albums or not. I'm more interested in creating my take on songs I cover, not sounding just like other bands. For example, I play a lot of covers in C# Standard tuning regardless of what tuning it was written in. And I'll play certain parts with a different style as well, but keep the intervals and melodies the same. I digress, but the point I'm trying to make is that you should focus on getting a GOOD tone and then see what you can do to personalize songs you cover. Nobody cares if you can nail a song or tone exactly. Metallica is not the be-all-end-all of tones.
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