Page 1 of 2
#1
what is a great versatile amp for metal home use $200 more if necessary ?
#2
I suggest the Peavey Vypyr Tube 60. It's a little more than 200 used I think.

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#4
Quote by Tremolo Bum
I suggest the Peavey Vypyr Tube 60. It's a little more than 200 used I think.


ding ding ding. we have got a winner.

go for it. used from GC's online site.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#5
Yes get a vypyr tube 60 and be done with it.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#6
Don't get a tube unless you can play loud , why they are very loud and if you want to play metal or hard rock your going to need to crank and distortion and it is loud , I have lots of friends who show me there tube amps only to not get a good metal or rock sound from it because they can't crank there amp
#7
Quote by dazzzer30
Don't get a tube unless you can play loud , why they are very loud and if you want to play metal or hard rock your going to need to crank and distortion and it is loud , I have lots of friends who show me there tube amps only to not get a good metal or rock sound from it because they can't crank there amp


that is complete idiocy. Don't speead misinformation
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#8
Quote by dazzzer30
Don't get a tube unless you can play loud , why they are very loud and if you want to play metal or hard rock your going to need to crank and distortion and it is loud , I have lots of friends who show me there tube amps only to not get a good metal or rock sound from it because they can't crank there amp


Wrong in so many ways
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#9
From my personal experience that has been the case tube amps sound much better cranked for metal and rock , I don't care what people think I have heard it for myself Tube amps are very loud and unless you ok to play that loud don't bother getting one , SS or modeling amps sound better at low volumes
#10
I've seen this around:

Quote by CajunDaddy
Clue: Amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.


Tube amps can be quiet, but generally there is a certain volume floor relative to their wattage n' such that they have to exceed before they start to sound their best. Solid state amps don't suffer as much of that problem, although at low volumes the speaker isn't driven as much in perfect ratio compared to louder volumes. That problem persists in tube amps as well.

I think the Tube 60 is regarded at being able to play at bedroom volumes easily. The modeling innit is analog rather than digital, which is neat and as such I presume that it sounds better at lower volumes.

You are best off getting a lower-wattage amp so that whatever amplification system you have in the amp, it is driven well at lower volumes.
Last edited by Will Lane at Feb 3, 2015,
#11
Quote by Will Lane
I've seen this around:


Tube amps can be quiet, but generally there is a certain volume floor relative to their wattage n' such that they have to exceed before they start to sound their best. Solid state amps don't suffer as much of that problem, although at low volumes the speaker isn't driven as much in perfect ratio compared to louder volumes.


Sorry, that's simply untrue.

It's a commonly held myth, but it's still a myth.

Quote by dazzzer30
From my personal experience that has been the case tube amps sound much better cranked for metal and rock , I don't care what people think I have heard it for myself Tube amps are very loud and unless you ok to play that loud don't bother getting one , SS or modeling amps sound better at low volumes


All amps sound better loud, that's the way our ears work.

Watts are watts, how they are generated has no bearing on the volume thereof.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Feb 3, 2015,
#12
Quote by Arby911
Sorry, that's simply untrue.

It's a commonly held myth, but it's still a myth.

Well, even if it is just our ears, we can't perceive the small nuances that we hear at louder volumes, when at lower volumes. If the amp is sending those nuances and tonal greatness and they are driving the speaker, we still can't hear it. When turning an amp up, though, the speaker is driven so that all nuances n such can be easily perceived by the ear. Some amps are able to produce those wondrous characteristics better at lower or louder volumes.

I don't believe it has a very drastic influence on the tone, but it has some bearing on the fullness n' such. Especially including natural and artificial breakup. Considering OP's use (metal), this is important.

And watts aren't everything regarding volume, tone, and headroom, but they are a good basis to look for.
Last edited by Will Lane at Feb 3, 2015,
#13
As above, if you EQ your amp well it will sound fine at low volumes, tube or otherwise. An OD pedal will help with this as well once you have a bit more money to get one. I agree that most amplifiers will sound better when turned up, but that doesn't mean they can't sound great at low volume too.

The Vypyr Tube and Roland Cube are great suggestions in your price range. I know a few people that had issues with reliability with the Vypyr tube but I think that was with early models. Would be worthwhile to ask when it was made before getting one. A Vypyr (not the tube model) might be a good amp for you as well. If you want to save some money and being quiet is very important you could go for a Vox headphone amp too. $40ish bucks and with a $5 1/8'' cable you can route your iPod or phone through it as well to play over music and backing tracks.
Die troll

Dean VMNTX (EMG set)
Peavey 6505+ 112
+ a buncha teh pedlulz
#14
Quote by Will Lane
Well, even if it is just our ears, we can't perceive the small nuances that we hear at louder volumes, when at lower volumes. If the amp is sending those nuances and tonal greatness and they are driving the speaker, we still can't hear it. When turning an amp up, though, the speaker is driven so that all nuances n such can be easily perceived by the ear. Some amps are able to produce those wondrous characteristics better at lower or louder volumes.


Dude, you should write ad copy, because that's bullshit, but it's fine smelling bullshit...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#15
Quote by Arby911
Dude, you should write ad copy, because that's bullshit, but it's fine smelling bullshit...


+2 hey somebodies gotta to attract the uneducated guitarist with a fat wallet and no ear nor sense of tone.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
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---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#16
Quote by dazzzer30
From my personal experience that has been the case tube amps sound much better cranked for metal and rock , I don't care what people think I have heard it for myself Tube amps are very loud and unless you ok to play that loud don't bother getting one , SS or modeling amps sound better at low volumes


tell me what amps you experienced with to come up with that conclusion.

my MKIV sounds better at a low volume than a 15 watt solidstate. there is a thing called a masterfuvking volume knob.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#17
There are tube amps with variable power controls and there are attenuators like the Hot Plate, Airbrake, etc. Some work pretty well. Even well designed master volumes can help. Personally, I don't think anything sounds like a cranked amp except for a cranked amp. I dont know if it's dynamic range or amplitude or maybe just the ears perception of these things that are lost at lower volumes (applies to SS as well). And no attenuator that I know of can do anything to simulate things like cone breakup which is a part of that "cranked" tone.

But none of that means that a tube amp necessarily sounds like shite at bedroom volume.
#18
Quote by teamscorpions
Wrong in so many ways


Totally agree!

There are tube amps that are designed for bedroom/lower volume rockers, Orange Tiny Terror for example, I own one and it is a fantastic amp, I get great sounds that are recorded at lower levels, no issues whatsoever.
#19
Quote by diabolical
Totally agree!

There are tube amps that are designed for bedroom/lower volume rockers, Orange Tiny Terror for example, I own one and it is a fantastic amp, I get great sounds that are recorded at lower levels, no issues whatsoever.


I really like the dual terror at low volumes. the fat channel is a nice thing to have.

a MKIV can get whisper silent. all three channels have masters and there is a global master. sounds great.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#20
Quote by trashedlostfdup
tell me what amps you experienced with to come up with that conclusion.

my MKIV sounds better at a low volume than a 15 watt solidstate. there is a thing called a masterfuvking volume knob.
take my word for it tube amps are to loud for my home and even the low watt tube amps are still very loud except they don't sound good , I guess it depends on what volume levels you play, I know I can get a very good metal sound on my SS amp far better than any tube amp I have heard on lower volumes , but hey if you want to fool your self's then keep playing your amazing loud tube amps low .
#21
Quote by dazzzer30
take my word for it tube amps are to loud for my home and even the low watt tube amps are still very loud except they don't sound good , I guess it depends on what volume levels you play, I know I can get a very good metal sound on my SS amp far better than any tube amp I have heard on lower volumes , but hey if you want to fool your self's then keep playing your amazing loud tube amps low .



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#22
Quote by dazzzer30
take my word for it tube amps are to loud for my home and even the low watt tube amps are still very loud except they don't sound good , I guess it depends on what volume levels you play, I know I can get a very good metal sound on my SS amp far better than any tube amp I have heard on lower volumes , but hey if you want to fool your self's then keep playing your amazing loud tube amps low .

I can play a 100watt marshall through my 4x12 at night time apt friendly volumes. There are tricks to get a very good tone at lower volumes. For one, you may need to set the EQ a bit different. Using an OD pedal to get high gain at lower volumes is an easy trick. You can also put another volume in the FX loop this can be a volume pedal or a $19 hot box.

The key is knowing what to do to get your sound.
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MXR Smart Gate
#23
Exactly, spot the operator error.
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#24
^ well I won't lie most of my home practices are a POD into a small personal monitor or phones. Because it is easier than carting my amps home from the practice spot.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#25
Quote by trashedlostfdup
tell me what amps you experienced with to come up with that conclusion.

my MKIV sounds better at a low volume than a 15 watt solidstate. there is a thing called a masterfuvking volume knob.


Not all amps have one...

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?
Fender '72 Telecaster Deluxe RI
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+ a bunch of neat pedals

screamy emo band
#26
Quote by nick.culliton
Not all amps have one...

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?

An attenuator
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
How I do it when running my JTM45 quietly is to push the front end with a pedal.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#28
A lotta very persistent fairy tales about tube amps still out there.

Metal shred at $200 the TS is looking at Vypyr, Roland Cube, or POD.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#29
Quote by nick.culliton
Not all amps have one...

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?


you can wire in a PPIMV and that will do good. i did on my 18w, but i usually don't use it to cut volume. my JTM45 screams with none.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#30
Quote by nick.culliton
Not all amps have one...

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?
As others have said, a preamp boost of some sort works along the same lines. I use the Analogizer from EHX. Works well for thickening saturation.

OP, did you decide on an amp?
#31
Quote by Will Lane
Well, even if it is just our ears, we can't perceive the small nuances that we hear at louder volumes, when at lower volumes. If the amp is sending those nuances and tonal greatness and they are driving the speaker, we still can't hear it. When turning an amp up, though, the speaker is driven so that all nuances n such can be easily perceived by the ear.
Yes.
Quote by Will Lane
Some amps are able to produce those wondrous characteristics better at lower or louder volumes.
No.

If an amp sounds better than another quiet, then it will sound better loud (until you start overloading the power section, there things may vary widely), and that has nothing to do with the type of tech they employ to amplify a sound.
Quote by dazzzer30
take my word for it tube amps are to loud for my home and even the low watt tube amps are still very loud except they don't sound good , I guess it depends on what volume levels you play, I know I can get a very good metal sound on my SS amp far better than any tube amp I have heard on lower volumes , but hey if you want to fool your self's then keep playing your amazing loud tube amps low .
Chances are your SS amp sound better than your tube amp in any setting then.

Also my tube amp has no master volume and sounds pretty good.
Quote by nick.culliton
Not all amps have one...

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?
Just don't act like you would with a master volume amp.

Or overload the frontend with something like a pedal and turn the master volume down.

Or use an attenuator.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#32
Quote by nick.culliton

I don't mean to thread jack, but now I'm curious, is there a way around not having a master volume?


Do you mean your valveking? it has a master volume (by that i mean it lets you dial in distortion at low volumes, it maybe doesn't have an overall, "global" master volume which affects all channels).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
*Headscratch*

My experience has been that there are two kinds of distortion in tube amps. One is the kind you get from the gain stages in the preamp. I have an all-tube rack-mount Carvin Quad-X preamp that has nine (Yup, Nine) 12 AX7 tubes. As an aside, it's also got both graphic and parametric active EQ, bass cloaking, boost, noise gate, four channels, six FX loops, etc., etc. Depending on the channel you choose, you can have up to eleven gain stages.

Ninety-nine percent of the wussyass 6505 amps being played by guitar players are getting all of their distortion from whatever jumped-up tone stack is pushing the five 12AX7s, shared passive EQ and single FX loop on that 48-lb hunk of lead. The 120W of 6L6 power tubes are pottering around at bedroom volumes and contributing little to nothing.

The second kind of tube amp distortion is power amp distortion, and that's the sole reason that tube amps get touted as "better" than solid state. Because when you push a power tube into distortion, you get a pleasant result, and if you pushed the old late '60's solid state amps into distortion, it wasn't all that pleasant (and by the way, that issue was solved 40 years ago in the early '70's, but most guitarists have had their hands over their ears going "Lalalalalala I don't want to know" ever since).

But here's the thing; if you're not going to play those tube amps at VOLUME, you're never going to hear power tube distortion anyway. If you're pottering away in your bedroom, it's not going to happen. It's like having a car that will do 200 mph and talking about how well it handles and accelerates and brakes at speed, and never actually running it above 80. Might as well have a Honda Odyssey.

dazzzer30's on point, here. A tube amp that's not being run at the limits isn't doing what a tube amp does best anyway, and if you're not using it that way, why bother with it? And if you ARE running it that loud, it's likely too loud, and you'll get stabbed for running it there. Attenuators by and large change the tone and master volumes do nothing more than dial down the preamp section of the tube amp (which means that the power amp tubes are loafing). The only current way to get all of the tone of a tube amp at full song while maintaining sane volume levels is to buy a very expensive Fluxtone speaker and run things through there. You can dial down the volume without inserting a power dump (attenuator) between output transformer and speaker voice coil, and the OT <-> voice coil relationship is maintained.

Anyone disagree with that assessment?
#34
Quote by Dave_Mc
Do you mean your valveking? it has a master volume (by that i mean it lets you dial in distortion at low volumes, it maybe doesn't have an overall, "global" master volume which affects all channels).


Yes, for the VK. I'm aware of the master volume for the gain channel, but I only use the clean channel and run effects into it. The clean channel has a single volume.

There are ways around it, I can run it at lower power, but then I get an entirely different sound. Most of the time at home I don't use my amp out of laziness, so my amp volume isn't a pressing issue.
Fender '72 Telecaster Deluxe RI
Schecter C-1 Artist II
1978 Music Man HD130
+ a bunch of neat pedals

screamy emo band
#35
*Didn't read the replies above*
I know some really happy THR users. Definitely take that in consideration, in your case the THR10X. It might not fit in your budget tho...
#36
Quote by nick.culliton
Yes, for the VK.
To simulate a non mv amp simply turn the master volume all the way up and use the pre gain control to control the volume.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#37
Quote by Spambot_2
To simulate a non mv amp simply turn the master volume all the way up and use the pre gain control to control the volume.


Again, I use the clean channel which has only a single volume knob.
Fender '72 Telecaster Deluxe RI
Schecter C-1 Artist II
1978 Music Man HD130
+ a bunch of neat pedals

screamy emo band
#38
Quote by dazzzer30
Don't get a tube unless you can play loud , why they are very loud and if you want to play metal or hard rock your going to need to crank and distortion and it is loud , I have lots of friends who show me there tube amps only to not get a good metal or rock sound from it because they can't crank there amp


Quote by dazzzer30
From my personal experience that has been the case tube amps sound much better cranked for metal and rock , I don't care what people think I have heard it for myself Tube amps are very loud and unless you ok to play that loud don't bother getting one , SS or modeling amps sound better at low volumes


What are you doing on a gear forum, you need to get your ass to the patent office for your time machine because somehow you're living in 1969.


@TS: The Vypyr Tube 60 is a great home amp. Versatile is an understatement, and it sounds great at any volume. The solid state Vypyrs aren't bad either, and the VIP Vypyrs are great if you play bass too. But the tube power amp in the Tube Vypyr does make a difference if you want that feel.

I've owned the 15, 75, Tube 120H, and the VIP-3. Currently using my Line 6 POD HD500X pretty much exclusively.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#39
Quote by dazzzer30
From my personal experience that has been the case tube amps sound much better cranked for metal and rock , I don't care what people think I have heard it for myself Tube amps are very loud and unless you ok to play that loud don't bother getting one , SS or modeling amps sound better at low volumes


damn wish i knew this before. all those years of playing tube amps at home could have been avoided.

lucky for me i figured out a way to make them work for me but i could be wrong.
#40
^ Yeah. To me the advantage of tube amps is not *just* power tube distortion. They still sound and feel better to me at low volumes than solid states or modellers.

Quote by nick.culliton
Yes, for the VK. I'm aware of the master volume for the gain channel, but I only use the clean channel and run effects into it. The clean channel has a single volume.

There are ways around it, I can run it at lower power, but then I get an entirely different sound. Most of the time at home I don't use my amp out of laziness, so my amp volume isn't a pressing issue.


so the clean channel has no way to get preamp distortion? (It's ages since I tried it and I can't remember, and peavey has the newer version on its site now which might not be the same )
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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