#1
I don't know what is called, but is when you play the first string many times, very fast, listen to the video

the rest is not that hard, but I cannot play that picking on the same string, is almost impossible to play at that speed, my fingers can't move that fast, how does it do it

only way to simulate it is with a pick


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9j8eWsP-w
Last edited by lalopunk at Feb 4, 2015,
#2
Just practice. Doesn't look to me like he's using any particularly crazy technique or anything. Just some typical classical fingerstyle, although it is quite fast. I sure as shit couldn't do that. But I don't really play that style.

Just practice and practice. And I'm sure the fingernails help. Even if you can get up to that speed, it probably won't sound crisp like that without using your nails, or some finger picks.
#3
is just the picking of one string, he is using 3 fingers to pick one string

longer fingernails help, i can play that a little faster, but nowhere near that speed
Last edited by lalopunk at Feb 5, 2015,
#4
It's finger picking with 3 fingers or even you can use 4 (the pinky). I see a guy do that and it's really hard, there's a lot of practicing behind that, but do that make the impression of hit a lot of notes really fast, but it's only the same note hit several times, and if you change de notes, the chord or whatever you're doing, looks like that. And like the_bi99man says, you really need fingernails. Your'e from Mexico right?
#5
You need at least some fingernails, the right technique, and some practice. You could practice all day everyday with the wrong technique, and never be able to do it. It took me a while to figure that out. If you want to be able to learn this quickly, you need someone to show you what to practice. Otherwise you'll have to figure it out on your own, which is not too easy, because you will have to find out whether you can't do it for lack of practice, or for lack of technique.

Your nails dont have to be that long though. I keep mine long enough to pick better, but short enough to tap and play piano. And I keep both hands the same. It might be a bit easier with longer nails.

I've experiment with 4 fingers for stuff like that, but don't find it particularly advantageous. I use my pinky all the time for picking in certain situations, but not for speed runs or that type of thing.
#6
As mentioned above, it's a technique using three fingers to hit the same string.

If you want to see fast, check out Paco Delucia - he is the fastest fingerstyle player in history - you can get there too if you start practicing 15 hours a day from the age of 4!
#7
Quote by reverb66
you can get there too if you start practicing 15 hours a day from the age of 4!


I suspect this is just a little bit of an exageration.
#8
I suspect you're looking for a more in depth answer than "he is really good". All you can do is practice and become the best you can be. If you can get to this level... GREAT but some of it is natural God-given talent. I know my abilities are limited and I'm happy just to be able to play some easy-intermediate chord strumming songs. It's actually what I enjoy the most too. I do challenge myself to get better but spending countless hours trying to learn solos and fingerpicking techniques gets frustrating to me and sucks the fun out of it. I'm perfectly happy just to play what I can play and appreciate those that are good enough to play the more complicated stuff. I do practice a lot trying to get better though.
#9
already knew it was 3 fingers per one string, i'm no noob lol

I wanted to know HOW to practice this the most productive way, it seems like the technique is very similar to bass playing, the technique itself doesn't seem hard to master, but is the practice to gain that speed to make it sound smooth, fast and flawless like that

you could practice it for years, and barely even come close to that

people say just practice, which is common sense, I want to know how to practice to play it at that speed, how using what, how much, etc

it seems the only option if you want to play classical guitar well, is to go to a freaking music school and pay the big bucks from young age, otherwise, you're screwed, and you won't advanced much

classical guitar is one of the most difficult ones

it probably took me him DECADES to reach that speed on one string, and several strings like when you play with a pick
Last edited by lalopunk at Feb 5, 2015,
#10
Quote by rohash
I suspect you're looking for a more in depth answer than "he is really good". All you can do is practice and become the best you can be. If you can get to this level... GREAT but some of it is natural God-given talent. I know my abilities are limited and I'm happy just to be able to play some easy-intermediate chord strumming songs. It's actually what I enjoy the most too. I do challenge myself to get better but spending countless hours trying to learn solos and fingerpicking techniques gets frustrating to me and sucks the fun out of it. I'm perfectly happy just to play what I can play and appreciate those that are good enough to play the more complicated stuff. I do practice a lot trying to get better though.


I have been playing for 8 years now, and I know more than anyone that practice is not everything, talent is very important, especially when it comes to advanced and virtuoso level

My fingerpicking/classical technique is ok, I can play some fingerpicking tunes, for example I can play this with ease, but the difficulty of this tune, doesn't even come close to the one I posted above, is night and day


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdP_ZozwExE
#12
this is how is played

the thumb plays the bass note

and on the first string, you have to pick 3 times

first - ring finger
second - middle
third - first finger

this is the fastest and most economical way to play that fast picking

the parts where he plays 4 notes per string, same note, he does this

- ring finger
- middle finger
- index finger
- index finger

Index finger is used twice to play the third and fourth note

the position of the hands is simple to master

is all about years of practice to speed up those 3 fingers
#13
IMHO talent is not important. Yes some people can pick up on things faster than others but that doesn't mean you could never learn whatever it is they did. Will it take you more time than it took them? Yeah but if you are willing to put in the work for it and/or have a guitar teacher (like Tony Done said above) you can learn the technique. The reason a teacher is helpful is because they notice things such as a bad habit faster than you would on your on thus saving you time of having to correct it and letting you continue to progress.
And everything that once was
infinitely far
and unsayable is now
unsayable
and right here in the room.


- Franz Wright
#14
Quote by NougatOfficial
IMHO talent is not important. Yes some people can pick up on things faster than others but that doesn't mean you could never learn whatever it is they did. Will it take you more time than it took them? Yeah but if you are willing to put in the work for it and/or have a guitar teacher (like Tony Done said above) you can learn the technique. The reason a teacher is helpful is because they notice things such as a bad habit faster than you would on your on thus saving you time of having to correct it and letting you continue to progress.


if it was that simple, then everyone could play like the guy in the video, or all those famous classical/acoustic guitar players people look up to, and is just not the case

talent is not important in the beginner and intermediate level, in other words, anyone with just enough practice can play guitar decently

but is everything in the very advanced level

it separates the virtuosos from the average joes

all you can do, is practice, do your best, hope for the best, and be content with what you achieve

you may never be as amazing as those classical guitar players people admire, but such is life, not everyone was meant to be great at everything

if everyone could play amazingly with just practice, then the guitar itself would lose its appeal, every kids out there, would be playing amazingly, and it would nothing impressive anymore
Last edited by lalopunk at Feb 5, 2015,
#15
Quote by lalopunk
if it was that simple, then everyone could play like the guy in the video, or all those famous classical/acoustic guitar players people look up to, and is just not the case

talent is not important in the beginner and intermediate level, in other words, anyone with just enough practice can play guitar decently

but is everything in the very advanced level

it separates the virtuosos from the average joes

all you can do, is practice, do your best, hope for the best, and be content with what you achieve

you may never be as amazing as those classical guitar players people admire, but such is life, not everyone was meant to be great at everything

if everyone could play amazingly with just practice, then the guitar itself would lose its appeal, every kids out there, would be playing amazingly, and it would nothing impressive anymore


As I said it takes time. Time that not everyone would want to put to practicing guitar which is why they will not be as amazing as other players who do put the time in.

Also I realize the time it could take can be ridiculously long but that doesn't mean it is impossible.
And everything that once was
infinitely far
and unsayable is now
unsayable
and right here in the room.


- Franz Wright
Last edited by NougatOfficial at Feb 5, 2015,
#16
Quote by lalopunk
if it was that simple, then everyone could play like the guy in the video, or all those famous classical/acoustic guitar players people look up to, and is just not the case

talent is not important in the beginner and intermediate level, in other words, anyone with just enough practice can play guitar decently

but is everything in the very advanced level

it separates the virtuosos from the average joes

all you can do, is practice, do your best, hope for the best, and be content with what you achieve

you may never be as amazing as those classical guitar players people admire, but such is life, not everyone was meant to be great at everything

if everyone could play amazingly with just practice, then the guitar itself would lose its appeal, every kids out there, would be playing amazingly, and it would nothing impressive anymore


I disagree completely. Practice really is everything. Anyone could play like that with enough practice. The reason that you don't see every guitarist in the world shredding like a virtuoso is that many of them aren't interested in getting that technical, and most of them aren't willing to put in the amount of practice it really takes. It's not because only a select few have the innate ability to get to that level (although some certainly do have some innate ability that makes it easier). With enough practice, anybody who's not suffering from some kind of disability that would inhibit their playing could play like that. It's just that not everybody even wants to be at that level, and even fewer are actually willing (or able) to practice enough.
Last edited by the_bi99man at Feb 5, 2015,
#17
Quote by the_bi99man
I disagree completely. Practice really is everything. Anyone could play like that with enough practice. The reason that you don't see every guitarist in the world shredding like a virtuoso is that many of them aren't interested in getting that technical, and most of them aren't willing to put in the amount of practice it really takes. It's not because only a select few have the innate ability to get to that level (although some certainly do have some innate ability that makes it easier). With enough practice, anybody who's not suffering from some kind of disability that would inhibit their playing could play like that. It's just that not everybody even wants to be at that level, and even fewer are actually willing (or able) to practice enough.


sounds more like a coping mechanism
#18
Talent is what separates guitar players from musicians.

I've known loads of guitar players, and can drop names you'd recognize all day long. I've known very few musicians, but most of the names you and I know from listening to the radio or whatever for the past 50 years (at least in my case) are musicians, not just guitar players.

Paul McCartney is not known as a great guitar player, but can definitely play some very good guitar...he also plays bass, piano, several horns, drums...that's a talented musician. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull has recorded several Tull songs by himself (McCartney did the same). Flute, keyboards, guitar, bass, drums, and I'm not sure what other horns. Musician. Roy Clark can play guitar, "fiddle" ( I hate that, it's a violin dammit), banjo, piano, bass and I'm not sure what else, and plays them all very well. That's not all just practice...it's talent.

Talent is how I learned to play everything in the high school band room, still play guitar, bass, drums, a little keyboards, sax and a little flute. That's not just practice alone, it's talent. I also sing lead and harmony, write a little now and then. Talent is also how I was able to play fill in gigs for a living for 4 years. Meet the band and I'm onstage with them 30 minutes later, no idea what they might play, what key they will play it in, nothing...practice won't do that for you.

As far as playing whatever is in any song you want to learn, if you're willing to put in the practice, it can be learned. But it will be doing it by mere repetition. Slow it down, learn it a little at a time, and you'll get there. But to be a true master guitarist, gotta have talent.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#19
Quote by Paleo Pete
Talent is what separates guitar players from musicians.

I've known loads of guitar players, and can drop names you'd recognize all day long. I've known very few musicians, but most of the names you and I know from listening to the radio or whatever for the past 50 years (at least in my case) are musicians, not just guitar players.

Paul McCartney is not known as a great guitar player, but can definitely play some very good guitar...he also plays bass, piano, several horns, drums...that's a talented musician. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull has recorded several Tull songs by himself (McCartney did the same). Flute, keyboards, guitar, bass, drums, and I'm not sure what other horns. Musician. Roy Clark can play guitar, "fiddle" ( I hate that, it's a violin dammit), banjo, piano, bass and I'm not sure what else, and plays them all very well. That's not all just practice...it's talent.

Talent is how I learned to play everything in the high school band room, still play guitar, bass, drums, a little keyboards, sax and a little flute. That's not just practice alone, it's talent. I also sing lead and harmony, write a little now and then. Talent is also how I was able to play fill in gigs for a living for 4 years. Meet the band and I'm onstage with them 30 minutes later, no idea what they might play, what key they will play it in, nothing...practice won't do that for you.

As far as playing whatever is in any song you want to learn, if you're willing to put in the practice, it can be learned. But it will be doing it by mere repetition. Slow it down, learn it a little at a time, and you'll get there. But to be a true master guitarist, gotta have talent.


The gist I get from all of this is that you and other musicians can pick things up faster than others. Which by no way means that someone else can't get to your level it will just take them longer. Also practice can definitely help to improvise its not just either you can do it or ya can't.

That whole talent=musician in my opinion is completely false. I am willing to bet you can find someone who in your opinion was a musician who actually practiced and studied a ton.
And everything that once was
infinitely far
and unsayable is now
unsayable
and right here in the room.


- Franz Wright
Last edited by NougatOfficial at Feb 5, 2015,
#20
Quote by lalopunk
sounds more like a coping mechanism


Although your way is also a coping mechanism in itself no? That person has talent which I will never have so I might as well give up because there is no way I could be that good.
And everything that once was
infinitely far
and unsayable is now
unsayable
and right here in the room.


- Franz Wright
#21
Quote by lalopunk
already knew it was 3 fingers per one string, i'm no noob lol

I wanted to know HOW to practice this the most productive way, it seems like the technique is very similar to bass playing, the technique itself doesn't seem hard to master, but is the practice to gain that speed to make it sound smooth, fast and flawless like that

you could practice it for years, and barely even come close to that

people say just practice, which is common sense, I want to know how to practice to play it at that speed, how using what, how much, etc

it seems the only option if you want to play classical guitar well, is to go to a freaking music school and pay the big bucks from young age, otherwise, you're screwed, and you won't advanced much

classical guitar is one of the most difficult ones

it probably took me him DECADES to reach that speed on one string, and several strings like when you play with a pick



You can learn it faster than decades for sure. I don't think you need to go to an expensive music school necessarily, but specific technique can't be taught on a forum.
#22
Anyone can train their body to do any task. Talented musicians perceive music in a very basic way, that other people don't. It is like having an extra sense. The whole feel thing comes from that. So, in that way, some things are very quick to learn, because there is feel helping you along tremendously, and you might have better hearing for pitch than others also.

But learning a difficult technique, or playing with speed is like going to the gym.

A hockey player might have talent, but they can't compete at a world class level without training to be strong and fast. It's the same thing.

Paul mccartney, is not a "very good guitarist" I mean, he writes great music, and plays with good feel, plays nice music, and all that, but his skill level is not exceptional.

If you want a high skill level, that's practice. When you mix high talent, with high skill level, then you get incredible guys like Oscar peterson.

What this guy in this video is playing, I think most people can learn to do. Starting younger is easier. Some might pick it up more quickly than others, but as a sort of task, I think basically anyone can get to that level. But the feel part is another story. That is more tough.

For someone with lots of talent, in a sense they can already play any instrument almost. It's just training their body to be able to work the thing, and learning where the sounds are, which is often not really that tough. The hard part is usually the body, getting the strength and dexterity where you need it. And anyone can train that part. It's how that is applied that is different.

Anyone can go to the gym and learn how to skate and all that, but what makes some players great, is the ideas they have. Not the training, and physical abilities they possess.

You can make good music with average physical ability, but to get real quick, and to really strongly wield an instrument like guitar is a lot of work and a lot of practice.

Playing 5 instruments is easy. Playing one instrument on a world class level, can be long and tough. But lots of big names in music are not what I would call world class instrumentalists anyway.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Feb 5, 2015,
#23
Quote by NougatOfficial
The gist I get from all of this is that you and other musicians can pick things up faster than others. Which by no way means that someone else can't get to your level it will just take them longer.

Art is not "level" skill level of dexterity, sure, but musicianship is not just the physical ability to complete a task.

Also practice can definitely help to improvise its not just either you can do it or ya can't.
Sure, but a man doesn't really choose the ideas he comes up with. They occur to him. Absolutely the experiences he has greatly influences that, but it's the ideas that are the magic of improvisation which are not learned from a book. Art is not learning algorithms to complete a task. Sure, anyone can learn stuff and improve, and that's beautiful, but some people just have this gift where they seem to have better ideas than others.

That whole talent=musician in my opinion is completely false. I am willing to bet you can find someone who in your opinion was a musician who actually practiced and studied a ton.


I'm not sure I agree with "talent=musician; no talent=guitarist" but I understand what he means. You are most certainly correct that all good musicians practiced enough, and "studied" some, but there are different levels of what I think he was talking about for "musician". A great musician could write a very good song which is very easy to play, and they could do that a lot. Like Kurt cobain or Paul Mccartney even. They write cool songs and certainly have lots of talent but they are not masters of any instrument. So, they didn't need to study that much, or exercise their dexterity so much to squeeze out more and more speed and power. But a guy like Tommy Emmanuel or Guthrie Govan or Joe Pass certainly did. And you might get some guys that study a lot and practice a lot, and they are fast but don't play with much feel, or don't have beautiful phrasing, or don't write amazing songs.

For a person that has little talent, it's tough to be up against people that really do have a lot of it. But who cares? Forget that. Learn guitar because you enjoy it, and only compete against yourself to improve.

I personally don't see any indication that video OP posted is of a specially talented guy, and neither with the other video. They aren't poor, and definitely have some talent, but I don't find it necessarily so special. I mean, maybe they are great, but from what I saw, which I'll admit wasn't the entire videos there was nothing out of reach of a large enough portion of the population, if they worked at it enough.

But not everyone can play like Joe Pass or Guthrie Govan, or Oscar Peterson, or Tommy. These guys put in a lot of work and effort, and also have a great deal of talent. Most people could practice for a lifetime, and never get to their level of instrumentalism.
#24
Quote by lalopunk
sounds more like a coping mechanism


Coping for what? What are you even talking about? Are you actually suggesting that every single guitar player in the world aspires to be a lightning-fast virtuoso, and the ones who don't play like that just lack the talent?

Open your mind, dude. It's become pretty evident throughout this thread that you have an extremely narrow and naive idea of what "talent" is.
Last edited by the_bi99man at Feb 6, 2015,
#25
fingrpikingood I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And everything that once was
infinitely far
and unsayable is now
unsayable
and right here in the room.


- Franz Wright
#26
Quote by NougatOfficial
fingrpikingood I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Sure.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Feb 6, 2015,
#27
Well looks like this has gotten derailed a bit.

In answer to your initial question, one of the methods I used when playing classical guitar to practice tremolo (the technique you're referring to) is mindful repetition. Practice bars, easy and slow at first, where for maybe the first measure (of 4 triplets) you accent the first note, as in the one plucked by A, and then the next measure accent the middle note (plucked by M), and then accent the last note (plucked by P), since the usual pattern of three finger tremolo is AMI, since it's a more natural motion than IMA.

You can practice that technique across two or three strings as well, as opposed to single string tremolo, in order to develop the finer muscles of the left hand.

Also, the shape and care of your nails is very important. Sometimes the difference between a smoothly filed and correctly shaped nail and an uncared for one will result in a good sounding tremolo.
My God, it's full of stars!
#28
my nails are longer now, and is easier to play those notes, but still nowhere near his speed
#29
In the quest to figure out "how that guy does that", thinking about things in terms of "talent" is the kiss of death to progress. It's basically a witch hunt, and arguing for talent is like flogging a dead horse.

You're basically saying "he can do that because of X" without even attempting to solve for X. It's vague to the point of offering no useful information at all. Breaking things into more specific details is the way to go. That way, you can begin to wrap your head around what is actually going on piece by piece.

Talent is just a term people use to sum up someone's abilities as a whole.

Here's a excerpt from Wiktionary:

talent (plural talents)
[...]
3.A marked natural ability or skill. [from 15th c.] He has the talent of touching his nose with his tongue.


You could look at touching your nose with your tongue in terms of "talent", or get more specific and explain how it is physically possible for some people to do this. The latter actually has practical applications, and isn't a lazy excuse.
Quote by Jesus
Gaza Strip- home. At least it was before I fucked ereythang up...
#30
Hi,

In this video I use pamip for the rapid trills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP_aL4ObHA

As earlier mentioned this can be done on one string or across two. One trick to get a nice legato sound is to practice the trill or tremolo as staccato as possible. This makes the muscles move faster than playing legato. This technique originates on the piano and works well on the guitar.

Concentrate on making the notes perfectly even.
#32
Quote by Fretboard Phil
Oh wow, this thread just took a turn for the better. Thanks, Bacho.


Hi Phil, A quick addition... In regards to cross-string trills, most use aimp. This keeps the fingers from going upside down. amip works for me though.

Chris
#33
Quote by bachoholic
Hi,

In this video I use pamip for the rapid trills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP_aL4ObHA

As earlier mentioned this can be done on one string or across two. One trick to get a nice legato sound is to practice the trill or tremolo as staccato as possible. This makes the muscles move faster than playing legato. This technique originates on the piano and works well on the guitar.

Concentrate on making the notes perfectly even.


This is important. If you just try to go fast, you will go fast and sloppy, and your muscles won't improve. If you are strict with perfect timing, you'll realize how much you suck, and how slow you need to go, and then you slowly ramp it up, and you feel it in your muscles, and you get faster.

But I found still that I had to develop the right technique. Without it, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't get faster.

It might be different for different people, depending on how they learned, and stuff like that, but for me, I have quite short nails. They are sort of long, but not out of the ordinary even for non guitarist peasants. So, for me, playing single clean notes quickly was a challenge.

There is a lot I learned along the way, but for speed, no matter what it is, perfect timing is crucial, and nice even spacing timing is very strong, but I will also throw in some swing and some triplets after a while. The timing though is priority one. If you can't do it slow, you can't do it fast either.
#34
Quote by JimDawson
In the quest to figure out "how that guy does that", thinking about things in terms of "talent" is the kiss of death to progress. It's basically a witch hunt, and arguing for talent is like flogging a dead horse.

You're basically saying "he can do that because of X" without even attempting to solve for X. It's vague to the point of offering no useful information at all. Breaking things into more specific details is the way to go. That way, you can begin to wrap your head around what is actually going on piece by piece.


Agreed. Who can pick up a guitar and play without any training or practice? No-one. I always used to fall in to the trap of "Well, they just have a natural talent for it."

Then I decided to get off my bum and actually put some time and effort in and now I can play pieces I would never have dreamed of being able to play just months ago. Sometimes I might spend a week on a single bar of music - A WEEK! But once you've got it, that's just another piece of the puzzle sorted, and it will all help develop your overall playing skill.

Just my 2c.