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#1
hey guys its been some time since I've made a thread, how are you all doing and whats weird in the pit nowadays?

recently I've realized, after working at a company that sold an overpriced but good product by convincing young people of how amazing it was, to sell it to there family and branch out from there to create there own customer base, that reality is subjective.

I came to this conclusion because before the training started, they had refused to tell me even vaguely what the product was.

So i googled the shit out of it, and found out everything that they where going to tell me before it even started, that meant that i could take my time to observe the way my trainers, professional salesmen, acted, and spot the small details, i was hoping to learn to becoming the perfect sociopath.

for legal reasons i can not disclose much about the actual product, all i can tell you is that it was grossly overpriced.
And when one of the people asked the trainer for what price it sold in America, where the product originated from the answer was "about 2700, not far from the same as here".

This of course was true, but the same product also sold for about 1000 dollars or 2000 dollars, the actual manufacturing price being unfindable, but a consumer report website sighted it at 1700 dollars.

Many exaggerations and glorifications where made to make the product seem amazing, all the other people assisting the training where taking it all in, just as i pained to sort threw it and separate the factual from what could be used as simple sales points.

We where then sent out to sell these products to are families and friends, with the belief that we where offering them something unique at a price that was good and affordable (thanks to loans).

So yea long story short i now feel that reality is subjective to ones knowledge, assumptions, and perception of events.

what do you guys think about this?
Quote by WantsLesPaul
You are a sick man, Riley.
#2
Yes. Didnt read yet. Beware the serious man! The ones who believe they act through the object. Who infringe on other's freedoms, using them as means to an end. Who shun the ambiguity of their condition and tell you how to think! Kill em all!
.
#3
Well duh
Quote by ErikLensherr
Did you hear about the cockney Godfather?

He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#4
Quote by CrAzY-RiLeY
So yea long story short i now feel that reality is subjective to ones knowledge, assumptions, and perception of events.

what do you guys think about this?


OBJECTIVE: "The truth of x is y."

SUBJECTIVE: How I relate to the truth of x.

The truth is relative insofar as everyone must relate to it somehow.
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Feb 27, 2015,
#5
pyramid schemes get me all philosophical too
i don't know why i feel so dry
#6
time is a flat circle
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#7
Quote by Eastwinn
pyramid schemes get me all philosophical too

If Amway Global falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it still scam your gullible aunt?
#8
I remember watching "Shark Tank" I think, and one of the sale pitches was a squatty-potty stand. They made this item to market because our modern porcelain thrones constrict our colon, and really we should be pooping squatting down. The stand-thing emulated a squatting position for use with your toilet.

Although it does work as advertised (or at least I presume so, too lazy to find any scientific studies, it makes sense), they charge $20 USD for a $2 piece of plastic.

So for the average, "do-what-your-told" consumer, you're paying $20 for a life changing device. Reality for them is saving yourself from colon health problems.

But reality for me, a not-so-average minimalistic consumer, someone is wasting $20 for a piece of plastic that you could emulate the shape of with a flew blocks of wood and some nails.

I'd go as far as to say that reality is distorted the more ignorantly bliss you are. Reality is a pretty depressing but challenging place the more you know :/
#9
My name is Jordan Belfort. Not him, me. That's right. I'm a former member of the middle class raised by two accountants in a tiny apartment in Bayside, Queens. The year I turned twenty-six as the head of my own brokerage firm, I made forty-nine million dollars. Which really pissed me off because it was three shy of a million a week.

No, no, no, no. My Ferrari was white, like Don Johnson's in Miami Vice, not red.

See that humongous estate down there? That's my house.

My wife, Naomi. The Duchess of Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, a former model and Miller Lite girl. Yeah, she was the one with my **** in her mouth in the Ferrari. So put your dick back in your pants. In addition to Naomi and my two perfect kids, I own a mansion, private jet, six cars, three horses, two vacation homes and a hundred and seventy foot yacht.

I also gamble like a degenerate, I drink like a fish, I **** hookers maybe five-six times a week. I have three different Federal agencies looking to indict me. Oh, yeah. And I love drugs.

Yep, on a daily basis I consume enough drugs to sedate Manhattan, Long Island, and Queens. For a month. I take Quaaludes, ten to fifteen times a day, for my "back pain". Adderall to stay focused. Xanax to take the edge off pot to mellow me out, cocaine to wake me back up again, and morphine, well, because it's awesome. But of all the drugs under God's blue heaven, there is one that is my absolute favorite. See, enough of this shit'll make you invincible. Able to conquer the world and eviscerate you enemies. And I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about this.

See, money doesn't just buy you a better life, better food, better cars, better pussy- it also makes you a better person. You can give generously to the church or the political party of your choice. You can save the ****ing spotted owl with money.

I always wanted to be rich. So let me go back. I'm twenty-two years old, newly married, and already a money crazed little shit. So what do I do? I go to the one place on earth that befit my high-minded ambitions..
Free Ali
#11
I have learned that everything is built on a single formula. So far part of that formula is the Fibonacci sequence. 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144
I imagine it as a computer algorithm that produced all living life. From humans to trees to sea animals to everything. Humans are full of it. You can map out everything on the human body to the golden ratio. From vaginas to faces to fingers to everything. EVERYTHING. The wiring of our neurons to the wiring of our blood vessels to EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING! I cant stress this enough. Everything that is alive follows this formula. Fish have 5 fins, or 13 fins. Trees slit off into fractals too. Everything man, EVERYTHING is built upon the Fibonacci sequence. If I havent convinced you of everything yet, then look it up yourself. How can all life be based on the same formula? That doesnt make any sense. From the shape of our galaxy to the shape of our hands. How can this be? How can the entire universe be based on one formula?

How can light cover all areas of a surface? If you popped a water balloon, water would shoot out at all angles, but there would be tiny gaps in between water drops. Light is different. It shoots out in waves instead of particles, but if you decide to look at it, it ****ing stops and becomes a particle again. WTF? How can light shoot out of a light buld at all possible angles and not have any line gaps, like when a kid draws sun rays, light doesnt travel in rays, it travels in waves. But I disagree!!!!!

I think it travels in really long fibonacci spirals that unwind like those birthday blow things that make obnoxious sounds. I think light is wrapped up like one of those and when it shines it unwinds, but with an indefinite length. It just constantly unwinds. But the actual photon itself is the tip of the kazoo thing. The crazy part is its not just one kazoo thing, it is unwinding from all angles. Like if you turned it slightly and blew into it but all at once. EVERYTHING
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#12
I can't believe his dad didnt step in more, being an ethical accountant and all.

I woulda beat Belfort every day if that was my kid
.
#13
By the way, "overpriced" is subjective. So what you've actually realised is that subjectivity is subjectivity.

Free Ali
#14
Yes. Everything you percieve as reality is ultimately nothing more than the way you and your brain understand your sensory stimuli. Technically, our senses your senses aren't even necessary for us to percieve a reality at all, as you can see from dreaming, hallucinogenic drug usage - probably virtual reality in the future - as it's all determined by your brain.

Not saying reality 'isn't real' though, just that as human beings we are limited in how we can percieve it. Technology provides us another way to view reality, for example.
#15
"Reality" is reality. That is, the physical world/universe. Matter, energy, etc. Our perception of that reality is indeed largely subjective. Not all of it.... If we walk into a wall, chances are our nose will hurt. However, there are some folks who don't feel pain......

The function of perceived value and the importance of objects is almost entirely subjective. Lets face it, gold is just a rather malleable and rust-resistant metal. It has no more intrinsic value than does lead.

A guitar is made out of materials that are easily available and with the right tools, they can be mass-produced in large numbers. Yet if a particular instrument was owned or played by some rock god.... It's "value" jumps up by quantum levels.
To someone who didn't happen to know said rock god... It's just another Fender.....
#16
Of course it is

Think about everything you know. Everything you learned in school and in life and in books.

You base your personal reality upon that.

The problem is that there's a factor that's always there: The books you read, the things you were taught, the experiences you had were all human experiences and teachings, and human beings are fallible.

We take all that info, decide for ourselves if it's credible based upon evidence (hopefully) and how 'smart' and 'qualified' we believe that person is, and then build our belief systems off of it. That opens the door for bad influence and disinformation (or withheld information) though, doesn't it?

Think about the smartest person you know of. You don't have to know them personally. Now imagine they told you the Earth was flat and brought you a mountain of evidence in support of that hypothesis that also disproves the current model of Earth. Would you believe them?

You may. Why? Because you respect that person's intellect. You believe they have an authority. They seem to know what they're talking about, and you're too busy with other parts of your life to run experiments and collect data of your own to prove or disprove their hypothesis. So you believe them, and now you're a flat-earther.

Now think about everything you were taught in school. How much of it was true? Simplified? Outright bullshit? You don't really know. You can go out and try to disprove certain things or find the truth in other things, but who really has time for that?

The point is, that as humans, we accept a LOT of things as fact from a young age. We're taught to trust our teachers and parents and government and not to question what they say. If you're to stay sane, than you really kind of have to believe at least most of what you were taught and what you've observed, but it's ok to question things. Just be careful. The rabbit hole is pretty deep.
#17
So you work for Apple's new pyramid scam division?
Quote by JD Close
Piano dick had some good parts, but should have said "As the business man slowly gets boned", would have accented the whole dick feeling of the album
#18
Quote by Arthur Curry
OBJECTIVE: "The truth of x is y."

SUBJECTIVE: How I relate to the truth of x.

The truth is relative insofar as everyone must relate to it somehow.


Yes the truth is the Truth and it's up to each of us to define and exemplify ourselves, our words and actions to fit the truth.

Adversely, we must not let ourselves, our egos, or our "version of the story" or our perspective to cloud the real Truth.

Embellishment and sarcasm can be fun, but it's largely counterproductive most work and family settings. Always remember to be reasonable and speak with intention of doing the right thing, misreading of trying to bend the worlds to your will.
"Hey kid. You wanna cigarette?"


"No thanks! I/m already hooked on Fonicks!"

#20
Yeah, but what colour is that dress, though?

By the way, nobody's yet made a case for reality being subjective. Nearly all that's been done is establish the circular logic that individuals' perception of phenomena is subjective.
Free Ali
#22
What can we make/deduct from reality outside of perceptions? As more people give a thing validity, the truth comes closer to the objective, but its always just approaching. 500 years from now science might say our understanding of gravity was wrong because of a slight piece that was originally missing from the puzzle.

There's no end-point, and there is no 'God'-figure amongst us who's perception is the closest to absolute truth/knowing (though a few'd like to think they were). So for all intents and purposes, just to give us a working model of how we understand life, reality has to be subjective. Until the day where every subjective person viewed everything the same way (without any brainwashing and social conditioning, the latter which is impossible though).

There might be some nomena out there, but all we know and all that seems possible of knowing is phenomena, so there's no use in really thinking that reality could be objective. Rather the opposite, as objective-thinking type can be very, very bad people if they're fervent enough to destroy anyone that might think anything to be different.
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Feb 28, 2015,
#23
sometimes


but only sometimes


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#24
Reality is most likely objective, though. And we're just the Universe experiencing itself subjectively (Bill Hicks paraphrase)
.
#25
Quote by CrAzY-RiLeY
hey guys its been some time since I've made a thread, how are you all doing and whats weird in the pit nowadays?

recently I've realized, after working at a company that sold an overpriced but good product by convincing young people of how amazing it was, to sell it to there family and branch out from there to create there own customer base, that reality is subjective.

I came to this conclusion because before the training started, they had refused to tell me even vaguely what the product was.

So i googled the shit out of it, and found out everything that they where going to tell me before it even started, that meant that i could take my time to observe the way my trainers, professional salesmen, acted, and spot the small details, i was hoping to learn to becoming the perfect sociopath.

for legal reasons i can not disclose much about the actual product, all i can tell you is that it was grossly overpriced.
And when one of the people asked the trainer for what price it sold in America, where the product originated from the answer was "about 2700, not far from the same as here".

This of course was true, but the same product also sold for about 1000 dollars or 2000 dollars, the actual manufacturing price being unfindable, but a consumer report website sighted it at 1700 dollars.

Many exaggerations and glorifications where made to make the product seem amazing, all the other people assisting the training where taking it all in, just as i pained to sort threw it and separate the factual from what could be used as simple sales points.

We where then sent out to sell these products to are families and friends, with the belief that we where offering them something unique at a price that was good and affordable (thanks to loans).

So yea long story short i now feel that reality is subjective to ones knowledge, assumptions, and perception of events.

what do you guys think about this?


You certainly seem to look at spelling and grammar subjectively.
#27
Thanks for all your answers guys, except for the one concerning my writing.

I've decided to be skeptical about complex things instead of giving myself the challenge of understanding them, just so I can disprove them to others and shatter there ideals that seem comforting and that i wished i could believe in.

I've also decided to concentrate my craving for constant learning towards music, so thanks again, I'm having fun
Quote by WantsLesPaul
You are a sick man, Riley.
#28
Quote by Will Lane
I remember watching "Shark Tank" I think, and one of the sale pitches was a squatty-potty stand. They made this item to market because our modern porcelain thrones constrict our colon, and really we should be pooping squatting down. The stand-thing emulated a squatting position for use with your toilet.

Although it does work as advertised (or at least I presume so, too lazy to find any scientific studies, it makes sense), they charge $20 USD for a $2 piece of plastic.

I remember that! I remember thinking:

Okay, so why not LEAN FORWARD!!!

Guess what? You colon is in the same position relative to your pelvis, etc., when you lean your head forward, like, in line with your toes, as it would be when you're squatting.

My next thought was, WHAT A PIECE OF ****!!
#29
Quote by jugglingfreak
You certainly seem to look at spelling and grammar subjectively.


yeah you gotta conform to the official guide book
i don't know why i feel so dry
#30
Quote by jakesmellspoo
time is a flat circle


exactly!

we just put things like work, play, scary/fun times in front ourselves.

there is no such thing as "life" as it is portrayed in our society today. People running around getting from point A to point B, working hard on things that really don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Time is just there. It's always constant movement that never ends. The universe really is, when you think about it, just time moving in a circle, creating and destroying life as it moves.

We should still be living in the forests, worshiping the UNIVERSE, not other people or false idols.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
There shall be a stop to this madness. The battle is not over. My tasty licks aren't going anywhere.

Quote by The_Blode
^ I've just realised if you say Simple Plan's 2011 effort "Get Your Heart On!" really fast in a Southern American accent, it sounds gross. . .like sexual gross!

Quote by Necroheadbanger
Hello.
I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
(will be called AxOxJxLxAxIxVxXxUxWxZxQxUxRxWxGxJxSxAxLxKxMxNxHxUxGxAxAxWxVxCxBxZxVx)
(Don't even ask what it means)


https://soundcloud.com/95dank



#36
Quote by ErikLensherr
I have learned that everything is built on a single formula. So far part of that formula is the Fibonacci sequence. 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144
I imagine it as a computer algorithm that produced all living life. From humans to trees to sea animals to everything. Humans are full of it. You can map out everything on the human body to the golden ratio. From vaginas to faces to fingers to everything. EVERYTHING. The wiring of our neurons to the wiring of our blood vessels to EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING! I cant stress this enough. Everything that is alive follows this formula. Fish have 5 fins, or 13 fins. Trees slit off into fractals too. Everything man, EVERYTHING is built upon the Fibonacci sequence. If I havent convinced you of everything yet, then look it up yourself. How can all life be based on the same formula? That doesnt make any sense. From the shape of our galaxy to the shape of our hands. How can this be? How can the entire universe be based on one formula?

How can light cover all areas of a surface? If you popped a water balloon, water would shoot out at all angles, but there would be tiny gaps in between water drops. Light is different. It shoots out in waves instead of particles, but if you decide to look at it, it ****ing stops and becomes a particle again. WTF? How can light shoot out of a light buld at all possible angles and not have any line gaps, like when a kid draws sun rays, light doesnt travel in rays, it travels in waves. But I disagree!!!!!

I think it travels in really long fibonacci spirals that unwind like those birthday blow things that make obnoxious sounds. I think light is wrapped up like one of those and when it shines it unwinds, but with an indefinite length. It just constantly unwinds. But the actual photon itself is the tip of the kazoo thing. The crazy part is its not just one kazoo thing, it is unwinding from all angles. Like if you turned it slightly and blew into it but all at once. EVERYTHING


10/10
#38
Is subjectivity real?

You taste a sample and say, "ah, I like it," but why do you say that? Is it not because on some measurable level you have made an objective decision to like it vs not like it?

Doesn't it all come down to molecules and cascades of proteins, electrical charges traveling via electron exchange, and so on?
#39
Quote by FrettieMercury
Is subjectivity real?

You taste a sample and say, "ah, I like it," but why do you say that? Is it not because on some measurable level you have made an objective decision to like it vs not like it?

Doesn't it all come down to molecules and cascades of proteins, electrical charges traveling via electron exchange, and so on?


It can all be broken down to binary, cant it? Yes/No, On/Off


One person says yes or no to liking a taste, but neither are wrong because there is no truth, only interpretation. Nothing can be just yes or on for everybody, absolute.
.
#40
Quote by Fat Lard
It can all be broken down to binary, cant it? Yes/No, On/Off


One person says yes or no to liking a taste, but neither are wrong because there is no truth, only interpretation. Nothing can be just yes or on for everybody, absolute.

But isn't calling that "subjective" another way of saying it is simply too complex for us to measure directly and accurately?

Where is the rainbow?

To me it is somewhere entirely different then it is for someone else, but equally real. Light bends and behaves that way at that point in space and time, so for me it is in one place, but that is not true for you.

That is not subjective, it's physics.
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