#1
Hey Guys,

I found this old Ovation Breadwinner Limited for $150.00 with hardshell case at a pawn shop. The guys said that it was in a fire and has smoke damage? - Okay! I didn't like the frets or the 24 fret board which is 24.75, so I ordered a new fretboard which is 21 frets and 24.75. It is not here yet, but on it's way. I used photoshop to place a photo on the fingerboard and a photo of the possible new pick guard, just to see how it might look, so the photo is fake for now.

This model was the first active pickup electric guitar to come out, so they say? It has two 9 volt batteries. The sound is pretty weak and nasty compared to my other guitars. I have decided to install 3 Eric Johnson hand wound single coils and 2 Duncan Hot Rails in it. Why? - These pickups have been flying around my music room for several years and I wanted to do something with them. Then I said, why don't I just make a really crazy guitar, since the guitar looks crazy anyway!

I photoshopped my wiring plans, but I am not sure if they are correct. Since I will be using a 500k pot, I need the single coils to see 250k, so I installed some resistors in the diagram. It will have a varitone control with six different caps, and a master no load tone control. It will also have a volume treble bleed control, 5 way switch for the single coils, on/on switch for switching between the single coils and doubles, a 3 way for switching the double coils, and 2 DPDT switches for split and parallel sounds of the double coils.

Please check out this wiring and let me know if it will work at all.

Thanks!

http://www.twangerguitars.com/bread1.jpg
http://www.twangerguitars.com/bread2.jpg
#2
Quote by Telewanger
I didn't like the frets or the 24 fret board which is 24.75, so I ordered a new fretboard which is 21 frets and 24.75. It is not here yet, but on it's way.


I'm curious where you got that neck.
How are you sure it will match up?
And why did you order a 21 fret instead of a 24-fret? What was the thinking?
#3
Holy hell, that is some wiring.

What are the resistors for? Not sure you need those.

The switching is bananas, but I can't find any issues. Hope you have room for all that wire
#4
I can see me doing a wiring that insane if I had a router or something along those lines. Yeah I'm curious about the 480k resistors myself too and those are interesting values for what looks to be a treble bleed using those capacitor values. The kinman treble bleed I use myself when I have to use audio taper pots (I'm a linear guy) or stick to vintage 50s wiring how they wire up a tone. It retains the highs as well.

a big tip, don't ground everything to one pot. It will work for a while but eventually the pot will give out. Try to distribute the ground wires across the schematic. Say for example you can ground the strings ground anywhere and it'll work.

I use resistors from hot lead (selector) to ground to fine tune the EQ of the pickups but 480k to a 500k pot doesn't seem a good idea. 250k or 1m is significant differences.

but why stop at a regular tone. Perhaps a TBX and a mid scoop and some phase reversal options. A fender S1 pot and or a super 5 way switch you may not need some stuff mentioned and it'll play more comfortable. Send me a message and I can tell you all about those mods.

I'm kind of curious about the 250k tone pot too. Tone pot resistance is like sensitivity so even if there was 1 million K (to be an idiot I'm saying this) 10 would still be 10. 0 would still be 0. The type of tone pot (A,B or D) and capacitor value /type matter big time.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Mar 7, 2015,
#5
I basically threw a bunch of guitar drawings together to form one big mess.

dspellman:

I have two 24 fret guitars and don't use the last few frets that much. I can play faster and more accurate on a 21 or 22, so I ordered a 21. Since the scale is 24.75 and the one that I ordered is 24.75, it supposed to be correct. On the photo they had a metal ruler and everything looked like it matches up to mine. I have not held it in my hand so I will have to wait and see. I went to every supply company online and looked at the fingerboards. Most were plain jane fingerboards until I saw this one on ebay. It still has the same neck. I am just getting a fingerboard and will install EVO Gold Jumbo frets. I have installed them on 2 other guitars and love them.

Roc8995:

According to this: http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm

Instead of using a 500k volume pot for the humbuckers and a 250k pot for the single coils, I can use a 500k pot for both if I have a resistor on the pickup to send some highs to ground.

Tallwood13:

The body is already routed out from the factory except where the middle pickup goes. The area where all of the pots and switches go is huge and everything should fit just fine. The reason for the 250 no load pot is on this page under the parts list. I don't really want to mess with the Eric Johnson Strat pickups much. They will pretty much be like a Strat, but the two others will have the double, split, and parallel option. With the varitone installed it should have a lot of cool tones to play with now. The Hot Rails already have a mid honk sound to them.

http://www.diyguitarmods.com/custom-varitone-wiring.php

It even has a video at the bottom of the page.
Last edited by Telewanger at Mar 7, 2015,
#6
Quote by Telewanger
I basically threw a bunch of guitar drawings together to form one big mess.

dspellman:

I have two 24 fret guitars and don't use the last few frets that much. I can play faster and more accurate on a 21 or 22, so I ordered a 21. Since the scale is 24.75 and the one that I ordered is 24.75, it supposed to be correct. On the photo they had a metal ruler and everything looked like it matches up to mine. I have not held it in my hand so I will have to wait and see. I went to every supply company online and looked at the fingerboards. Most were plain jane fingerboards until I saw this one on ebay. It still has the same neck. I am just getting a fingerboard and will install EVO Gold Jumbo frets. I have installed them on 2 other guitars and love them.


I have no idea why you would play more accurately on a 22 fret board than a 24; everything's identical until you get to those last two frets, and they're just added onto the end. You're prying the fretboard off the guitar's neck and subbing in a new one? Are you changing materials (rosewood to maple, etc.)? Otherwise, obviously, you'd just refret the existing board?
#7
This neck is not long scale. They crammed 24 frets where 21 should be. It is way easier to play my Les Paul. The fret spacing is wider. Yeah, I want a maple fretboard. The guitar came with no frets. Someone made a fretless guitar out of it, or slide guitar, and sanded the fretboard down so you couldn't install frets in it anymore.
#8
You misunderstand. They did not cram 24 frets into a 21 fret board. If they had, the scale length would be different. The fret spacing will be exactly the same on a 24.75" fretboard no matter how many frets it has - 21, 24, 36, 14. It's the scale length that decides the fret spacing, not the number of frets.
#10
It's just going to look funny. I thought all Breadwinners were 24 fret with basically no overhang so you're just going to have some blank neck with no frets on it. If the scale length is proper the neck pocket won't be an issue, but there's no point in getting a 21 fret neck instead of 24 in this situation. Some guitars add frets by having the board overhang the pickguard, but the Breadwinners I've seen just had 24 frets right up to the end of the neck pocket.

You can see here:


You don't gain anything by removing those last 3 frets. There was already room for them, they're not displacing anything.
#11
^^^^ If the neck is shorter, it isn't going to leave much for the neck bolts to hang on to! If I insisted on 21 fret, I would still have the neck full length, which is kind of pointless. - You could just pull out the last three frets on the current neck.

Or you could move the bridge back to compensate.
#12
The neck can't be shorter. That would change the scale length. He said it was the correct scale length so it's got to have the same dimensions at least out to the nut.

I think we're saying the same thing - it's going to be the same neck but just missing three frets.
#13
You can have the neck shorter, but you can't seat it the full depth in the neck pocket - you would have to leave a gap of about 1" between the end of the neck and the back of the pocket. - From your pic, that would be a very dodgy option, and ugly as.

I've always liked the look of those Ovations. I wonder how well they would balance on your knee?
#15
Quote by Telewanger
This neck is not long scale. They crammed 24 frets where 21 should be. It is way easier to play my Les Paul. The fret spacing is wider. Yeah, I want a maple fretboard. The guitar came with no frets. Someone made a fretless guitar out of it, or slide guitar, and sanded the fretboard down so you couldn't install frets in it anymore.


I think you've already read some of the rest of the comments.

No, they didn't cram 24 frets where 21 should be. And if you're going to maintain the scale of the guitar, you need to have the fret spacing exactly the same as it was. You need a 24-fret board in 24.75" scale to maintain the correct fret spacing.

What you're thinking is that you play better and more accurately on a longer scale (25.5"?) guitar, such as a strat. A longer scale will give you wider fret spacing (and there are 24-fret guitars in that 25.5" scale, by the way), but that guitar's bridge, pickups, etc. are all set up for a shorter scale. If you try putting strat spacing (IOW, putting 21 frets where 24 ought to be) you'll never be able to play the guitar at all.

We had another guy who made a similar mistake -- he built a beautiful SG-style guitar, put the wrong scale neck on it and showed up on the forum wondering why the 11th fret was playing the wrong note, and why he couldn't get the thing intonated no matter what he tried.

Get this figured out now, before you get all through with this guitar, string it up and find out that you've made a really basic mistake.
#16
Hum????

Now I am second guessing everything. Check out the photo below. The one that I ordered is actually a 22 fret instead of 21.

They are selling a 24.75 fretboard with 24 frets, and they are selling a 24.75 fretboard with 22 frets. The 12th fret, according to the ruler in the photo, ends up exactly where the 12th fret line is on the fingerboard that I have now. I thought that if the 12th fret was exact, then the distance to the bridge peaks would be the same as it was when new, so the intonation will be able to be set correct.

Here is a photo of the 22 fret and the 24 fret. The first and 12 frets seem to line up. Well, if it does not work, I will just have to put it back on ebay. and get the 24 fret fingerboard.

Thanks.

http://www.twangerguitars.com/fretboard.jpg
#17
There's something wrong in those pics, because if the the 1st and 12th fret line up, then the 22nd fret must also line up if the two have the correct intonation which they clearly don't. The high frets on the 24-fret board look "compressed" to me. I wouldn't like to guess whether it is the way it is made, an optical illusion or photoshopping.
#18
So since the fret spacing is the same (that's what scale length means), the 22nd fret must be in the same spot on your current neck and the new one.

Now look at where the 22nd fret falls on your current guitar (or the one pictured above). That's where the frets will end on the new one.

So, now two things are going to happen:
1) You ordered a neck with the right dimensions, with the right amount of space after the frets for the placement of your neck pocket (you did check that, right?), and there will be some empty space where there used to be frets, or
2) The neck is not going to intonate because the neck doesn't have the right dimensions for your guitar's neck pocket to bridge spacing.
#19
Hum,

For some reason, I was thinking that the spacing would be a little bit wider somehow. Those photos are out of whack. I have no idea what's gonna show up now. I just took a chance on ebay. No other neck companies make such a fancy already inlaid neck like this one, or out of dozens of websites, I did not find one. Most all companies just sell fingerboards either plain, with dots, or a pretty simple design like birds or squares.

Well the good news is, they gave me enough wood at the end to add in more frets. I am going to install new frets anyway, so I will just have to cut two more slots in there at 18.195 and 18.562 for the 23rd and 24th.

Thanks!
#20
Oh, forgot you just ordered a board and not the whole neck. No worries about intonation then. Just the extra space, unless you add those extra frets. As you can see from your picture it's not a ton of blank space, but in my mind you might as well have the extra frets as long as there's room.