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#1
Hi guys,

I'm going to buy a new guitar and my choice has narrowed down to Schecter ATX C-1, which has two color: black satin and red satin. What bugs me is that despite that they belong to the same model, they are made from different materials.

I play mostly metalcore and I want a punchy and aggressive sound. Swamp ash or mahogany for guitar body?

Thanks!!!
#2
Get the guitar that feels and sounds the best to you.


That being said, I guess if you wanted to be super pedantic about it, ash would be the brighter tone. WILL you be able to notice that? Especially with the amount of gain you'll be using? Almost 100 percent no.
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#3
Out of all of the factors that affect tone for a specific genre of music, I would rank body wood type among the least important. Buy the guitar that that feels the best, as long as it has humbuckers. Those can be changed to suit your tastes.
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#4
Quote by KailM
Out of all of the factors that affect tone for a specific genre of music, I would rank body wood type among the least important. Buy the guitar that that feels the best, as long as it has humbuckers. Those can be changed to suit your tastes.


The pickups are active: Seymour Duncan BlackOuts AHB-1
#5
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Get the guitar that feels and sounds the best to you.


That being said, I guess if you wanted to be super pedantic about it, ash would be the brighter tone. WILL you be able to notice that? Especially with the amount of gain you'll be using? Almost 100 percent no.

I have been using a $150 Epiphone guitar for some years. Schecter blackjack is like $1000. I think they all feel too good to distinguish which blackjack feels better
#6
The AHB1 pups are one of the hottest set I own and I wouldn't worry too much about the body wood with them since more than likely you'll be playing high gain. Your amp is going to determine most of your tone anyways.
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#7
Quote by ltdguy27
The AHB1 pups are one of the hottest set I own and I wouldn't worry too much about the body wood with them since more than likely you'll be playing high gain. Your amp is going to determine most of your tone anyways.

good to know! Yeah I know those active pickups are beasts. But I am a producer and I probably mostly will use Pod Farm (aka digital amps) unless I am jamming out with my band.
#8
Quote by james.lyriestew
I have been using a $150 Epiphone guitar for some years. Schecter blackjack is like $1000. I think they all feel too good to distinguish which blackjack feels better

Your willing to drop $1000 on a Schecter?!

At that price you can get a used USA made PRS CE22/24 or newer S2 Cu22/24 which are much better guitars
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#9
Quote by james.lyriestew
The pickups are active: Seymour Duncan BlackOuts AHB-1



I have a Blackjack V-1 (With Blackout AHB1s), and it sounds killer. It has a mahogany body, for what it's worth. I do think that some people tend to over-analyze the effect of body wood on overall tone. Especially with active pickups. There are a lot of other factors that make a much bigger difference than the wood -- namely the AMP you're using.
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#11
Yeah the amount that wood affects the tone of the guitar when amplified, especially with a lot of gain, is really really small. Far smaller than guitar manufacturers want you to believe.
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#12
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Get the guitar that feels and sounds the best to you.


That being said, I guess if you wanted to be super pedantic about it, ash would be the brighter tone. WILL you be able to notice that? Especially with the amount of gain you'll be using? Almost 100 percent no.


Yeah pretty much. Or at least, even if you are able to notice it, I'm not sure it'll make enough difference to make one more or less suitable.
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#13
i'd wager $100 that nobody could ever distinguish an audible difference in this case.
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#14
Using other Schecter models as examples, their Hellraiser line is mahogany, and has been an extremely popular guitar for all kinds of heavy, high-gain music for years. Mahogany is also very popular for heavy metal guitars from just about any brand, as well. However, both the Jeff Loomis and Keith Merrow Schecter signature models are swamp ash, and sound brutal as **** on the Conquering Dystopia album. So... it really doesn't matter. Get the color you like more, don't worry about the wood. That vampire red satin is sexy as hell.
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#15
again echoing the masses, it wont matter.

i do have to agree with rob, i wouldn't drop a grand on a schecter. used for $600 is one thing. for that you could probably land a hell of a nice ESP (non LTD), PRS CE, Jackson Soloist, Ibanez Prestige, etc.

but its up to you.
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#16
The quality of the wood is going to matter a lot more than the species, and I think that is something that gets ignored by most guitarists, whether it be the wood of their actual guitar or the wood their cabinet is made up of. I would just make sure the guitar feels good in your hands and forget the species.
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#17
I'm not sure what these guys are talking about, implying (or outright saying) that the higher end Schecter models aren't worth their price. They're fine guitars, right on par with anything else available at the same price point. If you like the guitar, don't let some dudes with brand prejudices convince you that it's not worth it. For some reason, Schecter seems to have a reputation among certain circles for not being in the same league, so to say, as Jackson, Ibanez and ESP. I have no idea where that comes from, because they are absolutely just as good (if not better), in every measurable way, as anything from those brands, at any given price point.
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#18
Quote by the_bi99man
I'm not sure what these guys are talking about, implying (or outright saying) that the higher end Schecter models aren't worth their price. They're fine guitars, right on par with anything else available at the same price point. If you like the guitar, don't let some dudes with brand prejudices convince you that it's not worth it. For some reason, Schecter seems to have a reputation among certain circles for not being in the same league, so to say, as Jackson, Ibanez and ESP. I have no idea where that comes from, because they are absolutely just as good (if not better), in every measurable way, as anything from those brands, at any given price point.


I second this completely, at least for metal (since I only play metal/grunge those are the only styles I can speak for) it seems like Schecter is really on top of the game right now. Even their mid-range guitars offer set-neck construction, great electronics, great fretwork, and stock EMG 81/85 or 60/61 pickup configurations.
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#19
Quote by Robbgnarly
Your willing to drop $1000 on a Schecter?!

At that price you can get a used USA made PRS CE22/24 or newer S2 Cu22/24 which are much better guitars


Depends on where he is. A Hellraiser C1 FR runs well over $1000 in Europe, and are well worth it in relative terms.
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#20
Quote by BV-95
I second this completely, at least for metal (since I only play metal/grunge those are the only styles I can speak for) it seems like Schecter is really on top of the game right now. Even their mid-range guitars offer set-neck construction, great electronics, great fretwork, and stock EMG 81/85 or 60/61 pickup configurations.

All schecters are mid range guitars, they don't have a production high-end guitar at all. I am not saying they are bad guitars at all so please don't make that assumption. And I'll stand by my statement , A schecter is not worth $1000, if you really want one buy a used one and save $500. But in the end it is TS choice
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Mar 20, 2015,
#21
Quote by BV-95
The quality of the wood is going to matter a lot more than the species, and I think that is something that gets ignored by most guitarists, whether it be the wood of their actual guitar or the wood their cabinet is made up of. I would just make sure the guitar feels good in your hands and forget the species.


I'd venture to guess that 98% of the guitarists on this forum couldn't identify a difference in the "quality" of the wood on their guitars. Most couldn't tell the difference between Meranti, Honduras Mahogany, Spanish Cedar, etc. on a "mahogany" bodied guitar. Some folks think if you spend more, you get a better quality of wood. Sadly, that's not necessarily the case.

Same is true of cabinets. While there are minor differences in construction (corners, for example), and while there are considerations in terms of weight and durability and moisture tolerance, there's really little sonic difference in cabinet woods (and there should NOT be), as long as random resonances are eliminated. Bass cabinets in particular don't care about wood types as long as they're properly braced and stiffened (otherwise you lose power). The whole point is to eliminate wood characteristics as a factor in the sound of a cabinet. Speaker cabinet designers (as opposed to speaker cabinet carpenters) go to great lengths to make sure that's true.
#22
Quote by dspellman
I'd venture to guess that 98% of the guitarists on this forum couldn't identify a difference in the "quality" of the wood on their guitars. Most couldn't tell the difference between Meranti, Honduras Mahogany, Spanish Cedar, etc. on a "mahogany" bodied guitar. Some folks think if you spend more, you get a better quality of wood. Sadly, that's not necessarily the case.

Same is true of cabinets. While there are minor differences in construction (corners, for example), and while there are considerations in terms of weight and durability and moisture tolerance, there's really little sonic difference in cabinet woods (and there should NOT be), as long as random resonances are eliminated. Bass cabinets in particular don't care about wood types as long as they're properly braced and stiffened (otherwise you lose power). The whole point is to eliminate wood characteristics as a factor in the sound of a cabinet. Speaker cabinet designers (as opposed to speaker cabinet carpenters) go to great lengths to make sure that's true.


I guess I just like the sound of a good piece of wood

Quote by Robbgnarly
All schecters are mid range guitars, they don't have a production high-end guitar at all. I am not saying they are bad guitars at all so please don't make that assumption. And I'll stand by my statement , A schecter is not worth $1000, if you really want one buy a used one and save $500. But in the end it is TS choice


Uhh, I don't know, maybe we have different opinions on what mid-range means. To me mid-range is less than $1000, then you get to the upper mid range and finally at $1,500 is where I personally consider a guitar high-end. I just went to guitar center, typed in schecter guitar research, and sorted them from price: high to low, got quite a few results above 1 grand...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Schecter-Guitar-Research-USA-Contoured-Exotic-Electric-Guitar-109427526-i3233415.gc

this being the most expensive model you can buy "new" at GC right now.
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Last edited by BV-95 at Mar 20, 2015,
#23
Quote by BV-95
Uhh, I don't know, maybe we have different opinions on what mid-range means. To me mid-range is less than $1000, then you get to the upper mid range and finally at $1,500 is where I personally consider a guitar high-end. I just went to guitar center, typed in schecter guitar research, and sorted them from price: high to low, got quite a few results above 1 grand...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Schecter-Guitar-Research-USA-Contoured-Exotic-Electric-Guitar-109427526-i3233415.gc

this being the most expensive model you can buy "new" at GC right now.

just because they put the price tag on it doesn't mean it's worth it.

there's some pretty crazy expensive daisy rocks too, but i doubt the average UGer would look twice at them.

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#24
Quote by gregs1020
just because they put the price tag on it doesn't mean it's worth it.

there's some pretty crazy expensive daisy rocks too, but i doubt the average UGer would look twice at them.



Well that is obviously purely subjective. The only way for us to determine if a guitar is high-end, objectively, is the retail price. Just because it isn't worth 2 grand to you doesn't mean it isn't to anybody else. Obviously Schecter makes amazing guitars, or else guitarists like Jeff Loomis, who could get any endorsement he wanted, wouldn't swear by them.

That isn't to say that they don't make low-end crap, too. But that can be said about any guitar company.
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#25
Quote by gregs1020
just because they put the price tag on it doesn't mean it's worth it.

there's some pretty crazy expensive daisy rocks too, but i doubt the average UGer would look twice at them.



wait!! what ??? just cuz something is expensive it might not be actually worth that much. i'm shocked.
#26
Concur. You won't hear any difference.

Someone else said you should be guided by how it looks and feels, and I agree. Only you know what looks good to you. Consider also the balance and fit (shape) and also the weight.
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#27
Quote by BV-95


Uhh, I don't know, maybe we have different opinions on what mid-range means. To me mid-range is less than $1000, then you get to the upper mid range and finally at $1,500 is where I personally consider a guitar high-end. I just went to guitar center, typed in schecter guitar research, and sorted them from price: high to low, got quite a few results above 1 grand...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Schecter-Guitar-Research-USA-Contoured-Exotic-Electric-Guitar-109427526-i3233415.gc

this being the most expensive model you can buy "new" at GC right now.

Sorry, but in the world of guitars just because your price tag is $1000 or a little more does not mean it is a high-end guitar. To many this seems high-end because $1000 is still a large sum of money to drop on a guitar.

Gibson Studios cost $1400+ and they are not high-end at all, they are a Midrange instrument. PRS S2 models cost $1100+ they are midrange guitars

But like I said TS is buying I'm trying to give him some options and insight
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Mar 21, 2015,
#28
Quote by Robbgnarly
Sorry, but in the world of guitars just because your price tag is $1000 or a little more does not mean it is a high-end guitar. To many this seems high-end because $1000 is still a large sum of money to drop on a guitar.

Gibson Studios cost $1400+ and they are not high-end at all, they are a Midrange instrument. PRS S2 models cost $1100+ they are midrange guitars

But like I said TS is buying I'm trying to give him some options and insight


Did you even read my post?
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#29
Quote by BV-95
Did you even read my post?


he did. do you understand his answer? $ amount alone doesn't tell the tale in many cases. as mentioned the Gibson LP Studio is a lower end Gibson product but would still fall into the intermediate catagory. it's a no frills guitar and may be of no truly better quality than many guitars that go for less (and at times offer more). you can slap gold hardware and a special paint job on an otherwise intermediate or low end guitar for that matter and that will jack up the price. the actual quality of the guitar is no better though.

if you look at acoustic guitars even a $1500 one is kind of low end when you start to look at the prices of what is considered a truly good quality guitar. electric granted are all over the place and much harder to judge.
#30
Quote by monwobobbo
he did. do you understand his answer? $ amount alone doesn't tell the tale in many cases. as mentioned the Gibson LP Studio is a lower end Gibson product but would still fall into the intermediate catagory. it's a no frills guitar and may be of no truly better quality than many guitars that go for less (and at times offer more). you can slap gold hardware and a special paint job on an otherwise intermediate or low end guitar for that matter and that will jack up the price. the actual quality of the guitar is no better though.

if you look at acoustic guitars even a $1500 one is kind of low end when you start to look at the prices of what is considered a truly good quality guitar. electric granted are all over the place and much harder to judge.


His answer is fine, subjectively. But objectively there is no other way to determine a high-end guitar than price.

And the reason I asked if he read my post is because he was talking about 1100 and 1400 dollars, when I myself in my post said I don't think you reach the high-end guitars until you hit the 1500 mark.
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#31
Quote by BV-95
His answer is fine, subjectively. But objectively there is no other way to determine a high-end guitar than price.

And the reason I asked if he read my post is because he was talking about 1100 and 1400 dollars, when I myself in my post said I don't think you reach the high-end guitars until you hit the 1500 mark.


has it occured to you that it isn't something that can be easily judged objectively? you are right about the $ amounts you posted however i think he was just giving an example not necessarily based ton that premise.

i already gave you an example of why $ amount alone can fail as an indicator. it really is a subjective thing usually based on income.
#32
Quote by monwobobbo
has it occured to you that it isn't something that can be easily judged objectively? you are right about the $ amounts you posted however i think he was just giving an example not necessarily based ton that premise.

i already gave you an example of why $ amount alone can fail as an indicator. it really is a subjective thing usually based on income.


Yeah, I can kind of agree actually. Even to me it is more of a guideline. I guess people just think of different things when they think of high end guitars? I think it has more to do with construction and feel of the guitar than anything else. Electronics can always be replaced.
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#33
Hi everybody, here is to much answers without finaly explanation. So what is the difference of sound between the swamp ash body and mahogany body on Schecter Blackjack ATX C 1 2014. I mean wich is better for metal sound in standard tuning.

has anybody an experience?????
#34
Quote by warhawkband
Hi everybody, here is to much answers without finaly explanation. So what is the difference of sound between the swamp ash body and mahogany body on Schecter Blackjack ATX C 1 2014. I mean wich is better for metal sound in standard tuning.

has anybody an experience?????

If you don't have the patience to read the content of this thread, how can you expect anyone to have the patience to give you an answer?

Seriously, read this thread. Your answer is already there. Claiming that people can hear the difference tonally between two different woods with an amplified electric guitar is doubtful. There are too many other variables in a real world setting that completely overshadow any difference that might be there at all.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at May 14, 2015,
#35
I remember when Schecter sold parts only.
Moving on.....
#36
^^^^ Neither's better. Swamp ash might be a bit brighter. But it depends on each piece of wood, the rest of the guitar and the rest of your gear.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#37
Just play the two guitars and pick the one that sounds/feels/looks better. Don't listen with your eyes. A guitar can look good on paper, but you need to try it first to really know what it's like.

Most likely they will sound almost exactly the same.

I would never buy a guitar just because it uses/doesn't use a certain wood. You need to listen to the sound. (And as I said, I'm pretty sure they will sound the same.)
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#38
Where as in high distortion the tonal quality is subversive, one truth remains.

The Janka scale, a test of the hardness. Mahogany rates around 2200 where as Ash rates around 1300, so the mahogany will be harder, thus harder to chip or ding.
#39
Quote by highgear
Where as in high distortion the tonal quality is subversive, one truth remains.

The Janka scale, a test of the hardness. Mahogany rates around 2200 where as Ash rates around 1300, so the mahogany will be harder, thus harder to chip or ding.

wut?
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#40
obviously those high gain tones are up to no good. if the mahogany hadn't been so dense it would have caught on to the swamp ash's evil plans
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