#1
I'm planning on buying a Peavey 6505 mh Mini. Its a 20 watt version of the big brother. Im going with this option because it has a built in load box so I can use it for recording because I dont have a cab right now and wont for 4 or 5 months.
With it only being 20 watts, its not loud enough for me to play shows with it and be able to hear myself. Is there any way I can amplify it more?

I was thinking that I could buy a PA power amp and run that into the cab.
6505 mini send> PA Power Amp> Cab

Does anybody know if that would work?
Keep in mind that the 6505 mini has a built in load box, so I dont have to have a cab plugged into it.
#2
20 watts is usually enough to get even with a loud drummer if you have decent speakers and keep the amp close to you. A PA power amp will often be too much to feed a guitar cab. A powered monitor might work but I would just get decent speakers, turn it up and wail.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
That amplifier will get PLENTY loud. Just buy a decent 1x12 cab with a V30 in it, and if you are playing a gig that even that is not loud enough, put a 57 in front of it and run it into the house pa.
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
Peavey 6505+ 112

If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#4
The amp will be mic'd up 9 out of 10 times for gigs, so that parts not a problem. My issue is stage noise and being covered up by the rest of the band. We're running drums, keys, bass, guitar and vocals along with my guitar, typical band setup. But I've always been covered up by the rest of the band. Even when I had the 60 watt 5150 signature series (2003 model I believe)

Plus, what about headroom of the amp? wouldnt that alter the tone with it cranked that loud?
#5
I don't know the exact specifications of the head, I've just heard it on NAMM videos.

An option you could consider is getting 2 1x12 or 2x12 cabinets, and placing them on each side of the stage, that way your tone covers more surface area. One cab right by you, and another cab in a position that would allow the rest of the band to hear you. I assume that is what you are worried about, correct?
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
Peavey 6505+ 112

If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#6
Get 2 cabs. Years ago we had a back line of marshalls and huge peavey bass stacks but no foldback with the PA. We could get a sound front of house but on stage was a muffled nightmare. Simple solution...I put my bottom cab on the bottom of the other guitarists stack and his bottom one on mine. massive improvement and made stereo effects work great. Could hear yourself wherever you were. Or, If you do gigs and have the luxury of monitors, ask the desk jockey to mic your amp and feed it back through your monitor. Simple.
My gastronomic rapacity knows no satiety.
#7
Assuming that your gig locations are clubs or other venues with a house P.A. system, you can stick a microphone in front of a 1-watt amplifier and make it as loud as the P.A. will go. If your venues have no sound system, and if your band's P.A. system is running just the singer(s) and the monitors, then just run it through there. It will work fine.

Whether your amplifier would be loud enough on its own is a subjective matter. It would depend on the venue, the crowd, what everyone else is playing through, how loud your band plays, how loud your drummer plays, etc. But as long as you can mic it through the P.A. system, you are set.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#8
The head has only 1 speaker out, so two cabs arent a possibility unless I were to daisy chain the cabs.
I'm mostly just looking for the capability to be able to have the amp as loud as I'd need it to if I wasnt able to use a PA for whatever reason.
#9
Quote by 77disturbed77
The head has only 1 speaker out, so two cabs arent a possibility unless I were to daisy chain the cabs.
I'm mostly just looking for the capability to be able to have the amp as loud as I'd need it to if I wasnt able to use a PA for whatever reason.


I've never used a head/cab configuration, only combos, but it was my impression that cabinets also had speaker outputs...? At least thats how my PA works, the amp only has 1 output but the speaker has its own output, so it still hooks up to 2 speakers.
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
Peavey 6505+ 112

If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#10
^a lot do, but not all of them. TC, you should just get a good cab when you can, and see how loud that thing will really get. Use it with your band and see if it will work. If it's just not loud enough or cutting through well, get a second cab and do like these guys have said. Higher wattage doesn't actually increase real volume all that much, and unless you're used to using super high-wattage amps, and cranking them to 10, a smaller amp can probably get almost as loud, if not just as loud, as whatever else you've used. I don't really understand the science behind it (someone around here surely does, though), but I know that when you're looking at tube amps, 20-30 watts can get SUPER loud with the right speakers, pretty much as loud as bigger amps. The only tube amps I've used that really can't get up to a good small gig volume are the really tiny ones. Like 1-10 watts.
Guitars
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-II, Special Edition E-1FR-S
Orange Rockerverb 50 212
Basses
Yamaha RBX374 and Washburn MB-6
#11
Lots of stores rent equipment. Just look into rentals for the gigs.
Moving on.....
#12
A little physics.
Suppose you have an efficient speaker cab that produces 102db at 1w1m RMS. A 20w RMS rated amp will produce about 115db clean and 118db dirty. A loud drum kit runs about 115db with a gorilla behind it. This will be pretty f'ing loud if your amp is close to you and loud enough to certainly cause permanent hearing loss.

A 100w amp through the same speakers will produce 122db clean and 125db dirty. Certainly louder but maybe too loud for most indoor venues (ask EVH about this ). Remember that a 100w amp through less efficient speakers (96db 1w1m) will be the same loudness as the 20w amp through efficient speakers.

"Just enough to run with the drums" is probably all you will ever need to hear yourself if you place your speakers close and pointed at your head instead of your knees. Plenty of dynamic clean headroom available to run with the drums and you won't likely get kicked out of Hollywood clubs for being too f'ing loud.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Mar 24, 2015,
#13
When you can mic into the PA, run a little guitar signal back into the monitors. It doesn't take much.

Also, place your amp far enough behind you it can "open up", usually considered one foot per inch of speaker. So a 12 inch speaker you need to be 12 feet in front of it if possible. Not usually possible on most club stages. Put it far back as you can.

Also get it tilted back so it points at your ears, not your knees. I built a tilt back stand for my Fender Champ, I use it onstage a lot because we play low volume gigs, it gives me a cranked up tube amp at low volume levels, but I can't hear the thing unless I put it on the tilt back stand so it's aimed at my ears. I built it with PVC pipe, not hard to do, looks like this

IMGP27118 by Paleo Pete, on Flickr

That will easily hold a 20 watt amp, I'd put anything smaller than a Twin Reverb on it. The front legs are not glued in so I can swap them for longer ones if I need to get a little more tilt when I'm really close.

Another thing I did for a few years was running stereo. The Peavey MX I was using has an effects loop, my Aroion Analog Delay has stereo out. So I ran one side back into the MX, the other side into a cheap Radio Shack 4 channel DJ type PA, into a 1x12 cabinet on the other side of the stage. Set the volume on the PA so it sounds like it's coming from the middle, from there all volume and tone changes are made from the guitar amp. The effects loop takes the signal after the preamp but before the power amp, so it already has all EQ settings and effects that are in front of the amp. Works great. Bass player loved it, suddenly he could hear me on his side of the stage.

To get a perceived increase in volume, you would have to go to about a 50 watt amp, in general to get a louder amp you need to at least double the current wattage. A 20 watt tube amp should handle anything but the loudest band in a huge place. I've seen the Peavey Classic 30 used in plenty bands at loud stage volume, and played in a band with one, his Classic 30 could easily keep up with my 45 watt Fender Super Reverb.

In your position I would try and place the amp as far back from me as I could, get it tilted back, mic into the PA and bring some guitar into the monitors. IF I were able to mic into the PA, I wouldn't hesitate to use my 6 watt Fender Champ. Same thing, mic it and put it in the monitors.

I have a friend in Memphis who has used a 22 watt Mesa Subway Rocket onstage with a hard rock band for years, he likes his half stack better, and has to turn it down some, but the 22 watt amp does fine with one 10" speaker. Tilt it back. I used a 10 watt Peavey practice amp for several years...same thing, mic and monitor. Right now for low volume gigs I use the Super Reverb at low volume for clean, Champ cranked up for raunch and roll, the tilt back stand makes it work great. When I can get both 10 feet behind me it's excellent. Closer in it still works, but I have to be sure I can tilt the amps so I can hear.

Tilted back it also lets the sound bounce off the ceiling, that lets it lose a little treble, so you're not killing anyone's ears, since you have to add a little extra treble to make up for what's absorbed by all those bodies. The audience can hear, it's not ear piercing, you can hear because it's aimed at your wears. That's why Fender built tilt back legs onto most of their amps for many years.

EDIT - I almost forgot...when using the Peavey practice amp, it had a line out so I used it many times preamped into a PA amp. We had a spare 4 channel PA head and a pair of 2x10 cabinets, I ran guitar into the practice amp, line out from there into one channel of the PA amp, all of it sitting on top of the two cabs as in a stack rig, it did pretty well and gave me plenty volume for any place we played, and some of them were large clubs. If you have an effects loop or line out, you can do the same with your amp. It works well, and gives you the volume you need for a loud band with a low wattage amp.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
Last edited by Paleo Pete at Mar 24, 2015,
#14
So yeah. TC, the point is, if that 20 watt valveking run into a good cab isn't loud enough, you're doing something wrong. Either that, or tell the other guys in the band to turn down, because they're TOO loud. Nobody, in any situation, actually NEEDS a 100w amp, cranked up to 10. Nobody. (Except, of course, bassists, but that's a whole other deal, because of the power required to reproduce extremely low tones)
Guitars
Schecter Hellraiser C-1FR, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Hybrid Solo-II, Special Edition E-1FR-S
Orange Rockerverb 50 212
Basses
Yamaha RBX374 and Washburn MB-6
#15
Quote by 77disturbed77
The amp will be mic'd up 9 out of 10 times for gigs, so that parts not a problem. My issue is stage noise and being covered up by the rest of the band. We're running drums, keys, bass, guitar and vocals along with my guitar, typical band setup. But I've always been covered up by the rest of the band. Even when I had the 60 watt 5150 signature series (2003 model I believe)

Plus, what about headroom of the amp? wouldnt that alter the tone with it cranked that loud?


Hold on, you were covered up with the 60W 5150? That amp is f'ing loud. . . . I'm not an expert on live sound but I'm guessing something else is amiss here.

What type of speakers were you using? How did you have the EQ set?

I'm guessing you were just getting buried in the mix and not cutting through, not that you weren't loud enough.

I also don't think that the 6505 Mini is actually available yet so no one really knows if it will be "loud enough" on it's own yet.
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#17
metalmingee - Thanks for bringing that up, I spotted it too and forgot to mention it, got sidetracked. If a 60 watt amp gets lost, something is wrong, I've played in some damn loud bands and the 45 watt Super Reverb always holds up pretty well. It did take some adjustment going to that amp from a 130 watt Peavey MX but that's another story...I used to be freakin LOUD...
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...