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#1
So...after being forced to sell my favorite half stack a couple years ago I'm ready to recover. Time to buy a new one. Now...I already picked up a nice little ampeg 4x12 cab.

I find myself bouncing between a Laney IRT60H, Bugera 333XL (infinium), or a Bugera 6260 (infinium) Any Thoughts?

I play a variety of music but metal is the focus here...which includes rhythm and leads...with lots of gain of course
#2
I have a Bugera 333XL 212 (non infinium) and can attest to its versatility. I'd say it's more of a jack of all trades amp and doesn't do any particular tone best but everything it does do it does well. However don't expect blues-y kind of tones out of it since the clean channel is fully clean and the crunch channel on lowest gain is still fairly crunchy.

However, I have heard the infinium models can be a bit sketchy, with the infinium thing not totally reliable. If it makes any difference I'll probably be selling my 333XL sooner or later and replacing it with a Bogner Shiva and some high gainer like a 5150 or whatever. I'd definitely keep if it was a head but not a fan of the 2x12 open combo.

The 6260 just does the metal sound really, really well, as it's pretty much a 5150/6505. Some argue it sounds better but I'd say they just sound different.

Never played any of the Laney Ironhearts.

Maybe check out a Jet City 100HDM and 5153 as well if they are in your budget.
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Last edited by Badmotorfingers at Apr 7, 2015,
#3
Having owned a 333, get the IRT60, a much more reliable amp than the Bugera is. I know not everyone has issues with Bugera, but they have more issues than any other company I know about
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#4
Quote by Robbgnarly
Having owned a 333, get the IRT60, a much more reliable amp than the Bugera is. I know not everyone has issues with Bugera, but they have more issues than any other company I know about


Yea i know what you mean. I actually contacted Bugera and asked about the fuse/power tube reliability issues. Their response was "Those are isolated incidents, we are not aware of any actual problems with our infinium series and we are operating on a 1% failure rate" so....My goal here is to spend around the $600 range on something that isnt complete shit. Whats worse....there are no music stores around me where I could go check anything out...
#5
Quote by Badmotorfingers
I have a Bugera 333XL 212 (non infinium) and can attest to its versatility. I'd say it's more of a jack of all trades amp and doesn't do any particular tone best but everything it does do it does well. However don't expect blues-y kind of tones out of it since the clean channel is fully clean and the crunch channel on lowest gain is still fairly crunchy.

However, I have heard the infinium models can be a bit sketchy, with the infinium thing not totally reliable. If it makes any difference I'll probably be selling my 333XL sooner or later and replacing it with a Bogner Shiva and some high gainer like a 5150 or whatever. I'd definitely keep if it was a head but not a fan of the 2x12 open combo.

The 6260 just does the metal sound really, really well, as it's pretty much a 5150/6505. Some argue it sounds better but I'd say they just sound different.

Never played any of the Laney Ironhearts.

Maybe check out a Jet City 100HDM and 5153 as well if they are in your budget.

Yea I dont really want a combo either. I like the idea of the 6260...it seems to have more gain than the IRT60, however, it can be hard to be sure from just watching video reviews
#6
Quote by JRSOLDJA
Yea I dont really want a combo either. I like the idea of the 6260...it seems to have more gain than the IRT60, however, it can be hard to be sure from just watching video reviews


I don't really know anything about the IRT60 but the 6260 has more gain than you could ever want. Even on my 333XL I don't think I ever use the lead channel with the gain more than about 1-2 o clock, after that it just gets ridiculous. Maybe for like extreme death metal you need that much gain.

which craigslist in AZ is good for you?

https://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/az
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
Last edited by Badmotorfingers at Apr 7, 2015,
#7
Is this for gigging? If so the Bugera may not be the best choice.

$600 can get you a nice used Peavey JSX, 6505+ (Which are what those Bugeras clone), Mesa Tremoverb or maybe a Single Rectifier (if you are patient enough or can expand your budget).

If you're looking to buy new then that Laney looks to be a good choice.
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Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#8
Quote by Badmotorfingers
I don't really know anything about the IRT60 but the 6260 has more gain than you could ever want. Even on my 333XL I don't think I ever use the lead channel with the gain more than about 1-2 o clock, after that it just gets ridiculous. Maybe for like extreme death metal you need that much gain.

which craigslist in AZ is good for you?

https://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/az


I agree, Its nice to have the extra gain if need be for leads..which is usually the case with myself. But Mohave County is the craigslist for where I am. Which i have checked out....the only thing I've found is a used Peavey XXX..which isnt a bad amp, I checked it out at this guys house and its dirty, not well maintained which had me worried. So thats a no go for me. I honestly prefer to buy a tube amp new instead of used....if it were solid state I wouldnt care so much.
#9
Quote by metalmingee
Is this for gigging? If so the Bugera may not be the best choice.

$600 can get you a nice used Peavey JSX, 6505+ (Which are what those Bugeras clone), Mesa Tremoverb or maybe a Single Rectifier (if you are patient enough or can expand your budget).

If you're looking to buy new then that Laney looks to be a good choice.


It will eventually be used for gigging. and as far as the Peaveys go. Niether the JSX or 6505+ can even compare to my Peavey 3120...so I'd feel like I'm downgrading ya know... I need another head so that way I dont have to always use my Peavey (I always have the 3120 running pretty hot...which uses up tubes faster)

it would be nice to spend less on a Bugera...But the Laney is making me turn my head further lol...just cant seem to make up my mind yet...grrr!
#10
Quote by JRSOLDJA
It will eventually be used for gigging. and as far as the Peaveys go. Niether the JSX or 6505+ can even compare to my Peavey 3120...so I'd feel like I'm downgrading ya know... I need another head so that way I dont have to always use my Peavey (I always have the 3120 running pretty hot...which uses up tubes faster)

it would be nice to spend less on a Bugera...But the Laney is making me turn my head further lol...just cant seem to make up my mind yet...grrr!
Fairly certain you would be downgrading with buying a Bugera as a "backup" of sorts. I haven't had any hands-on experience with Bugera. But from what I've seen, people have more problems then what they are worth. Maybe they are doing it wrong. But the Bugera would probably be a step down if you're swapping from the Peavey. Don't let a low price tag entice you.

Maybe what is best is to just get another 3120 if you like it. Or just invest in having plenty sets of spare tubes.
Last edited by Will Lane at Apr 7, 2015,
#11
Quote by Will Lane
Fairly certain you would be downgrading with buying a Bugera as a "backup" of sorts. I haven't had any hands-on experience with Bugera. But from what I've seen, people have more problems then what they are worth. Maybe they are doing it wrong. But the Bugera would probably be a step down if you're swapping from the Peavey. Don't let a low price tag entice you.

Maybe what is best is to just get another 3120 if you like it. Or just invest in having plenty sets of spare tubes.


I see your point, but the 3120 has to be biased every time I change the tubes so thats another reason why I want something else in correlation with the 3120. Bugera says that their infinium series is self biasing, and the IRT60 only needs to be biased if you change to a different type of power tube...another thing im considering is that the IRT60H is only 60 watts of tube power...which can power a cabinet but I'm not convinced it'll hold up to a live gig in a metal band...
#12
Wait - you already own a 3120?


Quote by Bugera
"Those are isolated incidents, we are not aware of any actual problems with our infinium series and we are operating on a 1% failure rate"




I'd go for the Laney IRTs. Killswitch Engage did their last tour with them. Sounded amazing.
#13
Quote by JRSOLDJA
I see your point, but the 3120 has to be biased every time I change the tubes so thats another reason why I want something else in correlation with the 3120. Bugera says that their infinium series is self biasing, and the IRT60 only needs to be biased if you change to a different type of power tube...another thing im considering is that the IRT60H is only 60 watts of tube power...which can power a cabinet but I'm not convinced it'll hold up to a live gig in a metal band...



You are not making a lot of sense my friend.


You should be able to put matched tubes in your 3120 and be off to the races. Do they recommend you bias everytime? Yes. Do you need to? Maybe not.

How often are you going through power tubes in your 3120? Maybe something is wrong with it.

The 'Infinium' technology in the new high gain Bugera's is a joke. I wouldn't trust it. If you gig, you don't want to rely on Infinium to tell you if something is wrong.

Why would the IRT60 not hold up to gigging? Let me rephrase. Why would any 60 watt amp not hold up to gigging?
#14
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Wait - you already own a 3120?





I'd go for the Laney IRTs. Killswitch Engage did their last tour with them. Sounded amazing.


You're losing me. You already have a 3120 so what exactly do you want another high gain head for? You're down on the JSX and 6505 but that's what those Bugeras are based on. . .

Just another flavor or something else to play with? Nothing wrong with that. If you already have Peavey gain that you're happy with then go with the Laney. They're voiced differently.

I guess I didn't really understand what you were asking!
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Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
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Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#15
Quote by metalmingee
You're losing me. You already have a 3120 so what exactly do you want another high gain head for? You're down on the JSX and 6505 but that's what those Bugeras are based on. . .

Just another flavor or something else to play with? Nothing wrong with that. If you already have Peavey gain that you're happy with then go with the Laney. They're voiced differently.

I guess I didn't really understand what you were asking!


lol I apologize if I'm losing you guys. Yes I own the 3120, and yes it HAS to be biased everytime I change the power tubes, otherwise besides the voltage/current issues it will sound like shit. I'm going through power tubes every other month because I have it biased to run hot. so...will the IRT60 give me the same amount of gain/volume (with the extra tonal variation) that I'm used to and be able to keep up with my other guitarist who has a 100watt tube amp? This is so I can alternate heads plus have a slightly different sound on top of having a back-up. I hope i'm making a little more sense here...
#16
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
You are not making a lot of sense my friend.


You should be able to put matched tubes in your 3120 and be off to the races. Do they recommend you bias everytime? Yes. Do you need to? Maybe not.

How often are you going through power tubes in your 3120? Maybe something is wrong with it.

The 'Infinium' technology in the new high gain Bugera's is a joke. I wouldn't trust it. If you gig, you don't want to rely on Infinium to tell you if something is wrong.

Why would the IRT60 not hold up to gigging? Let me rephrase. Why would any 60 watt amp not hold up to gigging?

I wish that was the reason why I'm going through power tubes so fast haha. Yes it has to be biased everytime. But I agree...Bugeras claims seem kinda untrustworthly. and now noone can gig in a band with a 60watt solid state and have it sound decent, but I'm unsure about a 60watt tube. Only tube amps I have ever owned were at least 100Watts...
#17
The volume difference between 60w and 100w is pretty minimal.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#18
Tube change every month because you're running hot? That's Van Halen kinda crazy

If you do that on the Bugera it'll probably smoke on the second month

I'd say run your 3120 cooler, put an overdrive in front and case closed /

If you're really set on new amp in that price range I guess another contender could be Carvin V3.
#19
Quote by diabolical
Tube change every month because you're running hot? That's Van Halen kinda crazy

If you do that on the Bugera it'll probably smoke on the second month

I'd say run your 3120 cooler, put an overdrive in front and case closed.
Every other month.

I would think that a power tube change every other month denotes a problem or the tubes are way too hot. And I also think that running a Bugera to emulate that would waste your money.

Either run the 3120 cooler and do some extra tone shaping, or get the Laney and use the 3120 only for bigger gigs.
#20
So you're running your 3120 well beyond spec, burning through tubes and think the best solution to that is to buy another amp?

Ummm.....ok....



“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#22
If you can afford to get a new quad of 6L6s every other month you can afford a much better amp.

If you're dumb enough to keep buying a new quad of 6L6s every other month then maybe you deserve the one you have.
#23
every other month???!!!!
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#24
The only way you could possibly go through tubes that fast is if the bias was way wrong.
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#25
i wouldn't call a laney irt a downgrade from any peavey.

that's all i have to add.

except get the irt60.

then sell the 3120.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#26
Quote by Will Lane
Every other month.

I would think that a power tube change every other month denotes a problem or the tubes are way too hot. And I also think that running a Bugera to emulate that would waste your money.

Either run the 3120 cooler and do some extra tone shaping, or get the Laney and use the 3120 only for bigger gigs.


I considered that for sure....But my thoughts were originally that the extra 12ax7 in the 6260 would make up for the fact that I can run the tubes a little cooler. And yes 3120 for bigger gigs would be better but I'll still want something as a backup and the volume handling difference between 60watt tube and 120watt tube will probably be obvious...at least thats my thought on it...?
#27
Quote by gregs1020
i wouldn't call a laney irt a downgrade from any peavey.

that's all i have to add.

except get the irt60.

then sell the 3120.


i agree....Laney wouldnt be a downgrade...except in the power aspect. And I dont really wanna shell out another $1000.00 for a IRT120H ya know...
#28
Quote by Cathbard
The only way you could possibly go through tubes that fast is if the bias was way wrong.


If an amp is successfully biased then there no "wrong" way to do it. I go through tubes this fast because I choose to have them running hot. However, i am definately considering running it a little cool which will let me keep my tubes for 6 months or so....however I am still wanting a backup head either way....
#29
The volume difference would be 3dB. 3dB is SFA.

All you're doing is demonstrating that you have no fvcking idea.


I dime my amps heaps and don't go through tubes like that. The amp is faulty.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 7, 2015,
#30
Quote by Arby911
So you're running your 3120 well beyond spec, burning through tubes and think the best solution to that is to buy another amp?

Ummm.....ok....





HAHA! But honestly...I think you've misunderstood the thread here. I'm not having any problems with my amp. This thread isnt about my 3120, its about what backup i'm going to buy. I've already decided to start running the 3120 cooler....but thats not the issue here. see what I'm saying..?
#31
OP . you have no idea what is going on. one more preamp tube has nothing to deal with tubes lasting longer.

there is no reason to bias an amp that hot.
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#32
Quote by Cathbard
The volume difference would be 3dB. 3dB is SFA.

All you're doing is demonstrating that you have no fvcking idea.


I dime my amps heaps and don't go through tubes like that. The amp is faulty.


I have no idea? HA! actually the difference between 60watt tube and 120watt tube is 40dB cranked I just found out from testing 2 different amps in out studio using our software and equipment...so thanks for your faulty information. AAAnd diming your amps has nothing to do with how a tube is biased so please stop posting "bro science"
#33
Quote by trashedlostfdup
OP . you have no idea what is going on. one more preamp tube has nothing to deal with tubes lasting longer.

there is no reason to bias an amp that hot.



Never Said it did lol....smh...
#34
Quote by JRSOLDJA
I have no idea? HA! actually the difference between 60watt tube and 120watt tube is 40dB cranked I just found out from testing 2 different amps in out studio using our software and equipment...so thanks for your faulty information. AAAnd diming your amps has nothing to do with how a tube is biased so please stop posting "bro science"


40 db difference? I find that stupidly unlikely. Every 10 db is double perceived volume. So you are actually telling me that a 120w tube amp is 16* times as loud as a 60w tube amp?

*10 db = 2x perceived loudness
20 db = 4x
30 db = 8x
40 db = 16x
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#35
Quote by JRSOLDJA
I have no idea? HA! actually the difference between 60watt tube and 120watt tube is 40dB cranked I just found out from testing 2 different amps in out studio using our software and equipment...so thanks for your faulty information. AAAnd diming your amps has nothing to do with how a tube is biased so please stop posting "bro science"



You've obviously no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
The difference between a 60W and 120W is negligible
Sure you tested it, but was it a scientific test?
Did you account for different speakers?
Different NUMBER of speakers?

Did you account for the fact that some amp circuits are louder than others, regardless of their wattage?

I'm sure you didn't.

You can "test" all you want, but unless it was a controlled experiment, using the same exact circuit, only one's a 60W and one's a 120W, it proves nothing but your own ignorance.

EDIT: To add on to your second point, and I'll phrase this as best as I can, YOU'VE NO ****IN IDEA WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT
No, dimeing the amp has nothing to do with bias, but it has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH POWERTUBE WEAR.
Running your amp at full volumes is hard on the tubes, cutting their lifespan.
Cath pretty much always dimes his amp, and he's not replacing tubes every other month.
Either your amp is completely ****ed, or you've got it set unimaginably hot.
Last edited by darkwolf291 at Apr 8, 2015,
#36
Quote by diabolical
Tube change every month because you're running hot? That's Van Halen kinda crazy

If you do that on the Bugera it'll probably smoke on the second month

I'd say run your 3120 cooler, put an overdrive in front and case closed /

If you're really set on new amp in that price range I guess another contender could be Carvin V3.


Haha, finally a somewhat constructive answer. I'll def. check out the Carvin V3. Thank you! However, people seemed to be getting confused...what was my original post when making this thread???? It had nothing to do with my 3120, I mentioned it based on a comparison.
#37
guys....read my original post when I started this thread. It had nothing to do with my 3120..smh. lol.
#38
Quote by JRSOLDJA
guys....read my original post when I started this thread. It had nothing to do with my 3120..smh. lol.


Right, but you mentioned worrying about whether 60 watts would be enough compared to a 100/120 watt head, which what we are trying to tell you is: it is.

Honestly I know I jumped into this kind of late, so I don't have a dog in this fight really, but your claim that a 120w tube amp is 40db louder than a 60w tube amp is absolutely ludicrous just so you know.
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#40
Quote by BV-95
40 db difference? I find that stupidly unlikely. Every 10 db is double perceived volume. So you are actually telling me that a 120w tube amp is 16* times as loud as a 60w tube amp?

*10 db = 2x perceived loudness
20 db = 4x
30 db = 8x
40 db = 16x


I meant to say 30. But we're still in that ballpark...yes. and I'm not talking about "perceived loudness" that's not an accurate way to measure volume differences. I'm talking about mic'd and a directed line in to computer software that ACCURATELY measures power and volume output...which showed a 30dB difference between the 2 amps...I'm only telling you what I saw and experirenced...
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