#1
Hey all,

I'm expecting my 1960 cab soon. It comes with modern day 75s which have a nice bit of crunch. It's missing warmnness so I've been looking into V30s and Greenbacks. I'm thinking of buying two speakers and putting them in the X formation most tend to use. I like Greenbacks alone better than 75s. I don't have much listening experience with mixing the two with the 75s. As in greenbacks with 75s or v30s with 75s. I've never heard two 75s with one greenback and 30, that'd be interesting but just wanted to clarify. Anyone have any input on this and perhaps examples? I play heavy, not super distorted but definitely chugga chugga. Nice explanation right? Lmao

Let me know what you think all. Keep on Rockin.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
Last edited by Xerosnake90 at Apr 16, 2015,
#2
I have no idea how the T75 will sound with the Greenback. V30's and G12t75's sound good paired.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#3
Quote by Xerosnake90
Hey all,

I'm expecting my 1960 cab soon. It comes with modern day 75s which have a nice bit of crunch. It's missing warmnness so I've been looking into V30s and Greenbacks. I'm thinking of buying two speakers and putting them in the X formation most tend to use.


I think it doesn't matter, and I think that it REALLY doesn't matter if you put them in an X pattern. I wouldn't use greenbacks if you're going to run any serious power through the amp. I'd definitely try to match sensitivity ratings if you're going to play mix and match, but honestly, I think it's a waste of money.
#4
Quote by dspellman
I think it doesn't matter, and I think that it REALLY doesn't matter if you put them in an X pattern. I wouldn't use greenbacks if you're going to run any serious power through the amp. I'd definitely try to match sensitivity ratings if you're going to play mix and match, but honestly, I think it's a waste of money.


Hmm, I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by sensitivity ratings. A waste of money it isn't, it's about getting the sound that you want. So long as I'm working towards that the money I spend is well worth it. Besides, these aren't $500 speakers we're talking about here. Maybe $50-100 a pop.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
#5
Quote by Xerosnake90
Hmm, I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by sensitivity ratings. A waste of money it isn't, it's about getting the sound that you want. So long as I'm working towards that the money I spend is well worth it. Besides, these aren't $500 speakers we're talking about here. Maybe $50-100 a pop.

Sensitivity is how loud (dB) it is
dspellman likes full-range cabs so you won't get a good answer from him about your situation
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Apr 16, 2015,
#6
It really depends on what sound you want. Greenbacks if you want it sounding darker, V30's if you want to brighten it up.
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
The V30 is a lot louder than the greenback and will almost totally drown them out in the mix. If you hear them at all their contribution will be minimal.

That's why it's not true that any money you drop on this cab is automatically well-spent. Sometimes "upgrades" on paper aren't upgrades at all in reality. If you drop a few hundred dollars on speakers and half of them barely show up in the mix, is that really a worthwhile upgrade? Certainly it's not a very effective use of your money.

People typically pair the V30 and the G12H30 which is a fantastic combination. There are also GB clones that are a bit louder, which could be a good choice if you still want that combination. Warehouse Speakers make a Greenback and a V30 clone which are reasonably priced and closer to each other in volume. I really favor the V30/G12 combo though.
#10
have you looked into k85's/k100's? they are my go to speaker.

v30's and t75's go together great though.

i have a cab (came this way) with two EVH greenback signatures with V30's, and you don't hear the EVH speakers, the V30's are much more prevalent. i had it wired in stereo and you could tell. i have been too lazy to mess with them.
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#11
Hmmm, I didn't consider the Greenback's being overpowered. I haven't looked into k85s or 100s. Haven't heard them myself but I'll give them a listen. I may just go with the v30 combo since the greenbacks would be muted out.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
#12
Quote by Robbgnarly
Sensitivity is how loud (dB) it is
dspellman likes full-range cabs so you won't get a good answer from him about your situation


dspellman does like full-range cabs, but he also has four 4x12s and about 15 tube amps of various sizes and outputs, so you MIGHT get a good answer from him about your situation.

He would also note that there's no benefit to putting the speakers in an X-pattern (having tried it several times himself) and that, in fact, you might ultimately find it more useful to put the pairs of speakers in two vertical columns inside the cabinet (PM him for an explanation of why).

He would suggest that you (the TS) LEARN about sensitivity (efficiency) ratings, since a MORE efficient speaker will produce a louder output from a given amount of power than a less efficient speaker (compare, for example the Celestion Rocket 50 to the Vintage 30, which is rated to produce at least 5 dB lower output per single watt applied to the speaker than the Vintage 30. This would be important to the TS because one speaker type could easily dominate the cabinet rather than providing whatever balance the TS is seeking

He requested information about the amp head being used in part because a high power head could conceivably blow low-wattage-rated speakers while leaving the high-wattage-rated speakers alone. Some greenbacks are low-wattage-raged speakers.

dspellman might also offer that while the speakers concerned are only $50-100 items, the trial and error approach can cost money (as "errors" pile up). He speaks from experience. He might offer alternatives to blind purchases of random speakers based on internet "wisdom" to achieve specific goals. If the TS would rather play trial and error, there seems to be no reason for him to seek consensus on that process...
#13
Quote by Robbgnarly
V30's and G12t75's sound good paired.



Thanks , that just helped me pull the trigger on a new cab
#14
Quote by dspellman
dspellman does like full-range cabs, but he also has four 4x12s and about 15 tube amps of various sizes and outputs, so you MIGHT get a good answer from him about your situation.

He would also note that there's no benefit to putting the speakers in an X-pattern (having tried it several times himself) and that, in fact, you might ultimately find it more useful to put the pairs of speakers in two vertical columns inside the cabinet (PM him for an explanation of why).

He would suggest that you (the TS) LEARN about sensitivity (efficiency) ratings, since a MORE efficient speaker will produce a louder output from a given amount of power than a less efficient speaker (compare, for example the Celestion Rocket 50 to the Vintage 30, which is rated to produce at least 5 dB lower output per single watt applied to the speaker than the Vintage 30. This would be important to the TS because one speaker type could easily dominate the cabinet rather than providing whatever balance the TS is seeking

He requested information about the amp head being used in part because a high power head could conceivably blow low-wattage-rated speakers while leaving the high-wattage-rated speakers alone. Some greenbacks are low-wattage-raged speakers.

dspellman might also offer that while the speakers concerned are only $50-100 items, the trial and error approach can cost money (as "errors" pile up). He speaks from experience. He might offer alternatives to blind purchases of random speakers based on internet "wisdom" to achieve specific goals. If the TS would rather play trial and error, there seems to be no reason for him to seek consensus on that process...

What ever dude You act like your some 40 something guy that has experience
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#15
Keep it civil in here fellas. I appreciate all the feedback. Of course I'm not going to just throw out money, that's why I'm here after all!

I'll check out a couple of other speakers as well while I'm at it.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
#16
Quote by Xerosnake90
Keep it civil in here fellas. I appreciate all the feedback. Of course I'm not going to just throw out money, that's why I'm here after all!

I'll check out a couple of other speakers as well while I'm at it.

Just so you know, the Bogner Uber cabs come loaded with G12t75 and V30 in an X pattern
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#17
Quote by Robbgnarly
Just so you know, the Bogner Uber cabs come loaded with G12t75 and V30 in an X pattern


Did not know that. Thanks for the info, I already have the 1960a purchased. The x formation doesn't matter to me, that's just something I've seen people recommend to do so why not. I'm thinking of just buying some seperate V30s on ebay and putting those in myself. Maybe sell the g75s. To be honest though I'm not sure on if I'll put some v30s in there just yet. Once I get everything set up the way I wanted I'll see if I desire the V30s in there.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
#18
Quote by dspellman
in fact, you might ultimately find it more useful to put the pairs of speakers in two vertical columns inside the cabinet (PM him for an explanation of why).
Go on. You know you want to.
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#19
Quote by Xerosnake90
Did not know that. Thanks for the info, I already have the 1960a purchased. The x formation doesn't matter to me, that's just something I've seen people recommend to do so why not. I'm thinking of just buying some seperate V30s on ebay and putting those in myself. Maybe sell the g75s. To be honest though I'm not sure on if I'll put some v30s in there just yet. Once I get everything set up the way I wanted I'll see if I desire the V30s in there.

I ike the V30/G12t75 mix, but it does sound pretty modern. I really like the G12h30 and Eminence GB128 mixed in a 4x12 for an old school feel
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#20
Quote by Danustar
Go on. You know you want to.


Since you asked <feigns mild exasperation >..

As you know, 4x12s beam treble. They do that because they act like a single large speaker, and because the larger the speaker, the lower the frequency at which they'll begin to exhibit beaming. So a 4x12 will begin to beam treble at around 500Hz, and that means that they have lousy dispersion. You hear one thing directly in front of the speaker, something completely different if you're off-axis.

Long ago we figured out (based on this information) that if we were using full stacks (we were) that we got MUCH better horizontal dispersion if we made use of the stereo function of the 4x12s and just lit up, say, the four 12" speakers on the right side of the full stack as a single vertical column, leaving the left four dark. Huge difference, both in what the audience heard and what WE could hear onstage. The same applies if you're using a half stack; if you just use one vertical column (2x12), you actually get a wider horizontal dispersion pattern than if you use all four in a single cabinet. We eventually put a single cabinet up on its own Anvil case, and of course our "duh" moment was when we realized that if we were essentially using a 2x12 anyway, why carry a 4x12? The answer, for a long time, was that the stacks of 4x12s were better stage decoration.

The whole idea of putting unmatched speakers in an X-pattern has been around since it was a bright idea in the 70's, and a few manufacturers will pander to those who still think it's a "thing." Fact is, it gets debunked every four or five years at NAMM or at the LA Amp Show when some newb from Premier Guitar or Guitar Player or Guitarist asks a real speaker cabinet designer (usually from the Pro Audio or bass or keyboard amplification fields), gets an answer that surprises him, and then ignites someone with an RTA to do a bit of testing. But it's a persistent myth, and will be around as long as there's an internet, and as long as some manufacturer's marketing people push it as some kind of advantage. It's...you know...tradition, and needs no basis in fact.
Last edited by dspellman at Apr 18, 2015,
#21
I personally like Greenbacks over V30s, but will probably run the original speaker through at least 2 days of full volume to burn it in and then see if anything needs to be done for the sound. 1960 is good by itself so not sure you need to mod it, but if you do I'd put Greenbacks in x config but more for a recording experience so there'll be options to mic.
#22
v30s
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#23
Quote by TS
I'm expecting my 1960 cab soon ... It's missing warmnness ... I've been looking into V30s and Greenbacks
Firstly, swapping out T75s for V30s will not buy "warmness". The opposite in fact - assuming we're taking about the classical definition of warmth.

Also, how do you know you want to change a cab you haven't got yet? I don't mean to patronise but G12T75s are all about warm chugga chugga. Have you played your gear through this box?
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#24
One more thing -- V30's change noticeably as they break in. G12s, not so much. Avatar sells a "Hellatone 60" that's essentially a V30, restickered, that's been put through a break-in process. It's actually not *quite* broken in, but it's closer than a new one. If you're going to evaluate "tone," you'll want to understand the characteristics of the speakers if they change over time.
#25
The one things V30s aren't is warm. I'm pretty sure dspellman is on the mark here. Listen to him.
Gear:

Fender Strat
PRS SE Custom 24
Agile AL-3100

Jet City JCA50H
Randall 2x12 wV30s
#26
it sort of depends on your definition of warmth

v30 is nearly all mids (high mids? i think). tight bass (i.e. less) and rolled off treble.

g12t75 has scooped mids, more treble than a v30 (fizzy with it) and more, looser bass.

so in some ways you could argue either is warmer depending on exactly what you mean.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
it all gets lost in in the definition of warmth .... When I bought my V3m I asked Carvin which speaker do they recommend and they told me the V3m is a bright amp that doesn't need a bright speaker and recommended the G12T75 over the V30's ...... he also said the Steve Vai Legacy amp is dark and needs a bright speaker like the V30 .... , it all gets lost in the translation ...lol ..... I guess I considered that as the V30's as trebley and the GT's as thumpy .....
Last edited by Fumble fingers at Apr 19, 2015,
#28
Quote by Danustar
Firstly, swapping out T75s for V30s will not buy "warmness". The opposite in fact - assuming we're taking about the classical definition of warmth.

Also, how do you know you want to change a cab you haven't got yet? I don't mean to patronise but G12T75s are all about warm chugga chugga. Have you played your gear through this box?


Yes, I've played with everything before I purchased it. I went through a couple of hours of listening to different amps and speakers as well. I like tones of the 75s and the 30s. The greenbacks as well. Just wanted to know what others think in regards of mixing them.

Both speakers (30s and 75s) have a sound that I enjoy. So I might just end up mixing them IF I decide I want to change from the tone I'll get from the 75s. You never know. I agree that 'warmth' sounding is about having some good mids in there. The 75 is more crunchy and less pronounced tone wise than the 30s. Though If I went straight 30s I fear I'd miss the crunch of the 75s.
My gear
Ibanez RGA42E (6-string), Ibanez RG7421 (7-string w/Dimarzio Evo 7 and Ionizer), ESP LTD MH-50 w/floyd rose
Flashback Delay, Digitech RP1000
Marshall JCM2000 Dsl 100
Marshall 1960a W/ Eminence Governors and Patriot Red White Blues
Last edited by Xerosnake90 at Apr 20, 2015,
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
it sort of depends on your definition of warmth

v30 is nearly all mids (high mids? i think). tight bass (i.e. less) and rolled off treble.

g12t75 has scooped mids, more treble than a v30 (fizzy with it) and more, looser bass.

so in some ways you could argue either is warmer depending on exactly what you mean.


Yeah I pretty much think of warm tones as a little scooped in the mid range, with not too much treble. To me, the v30 is very punchy and articulate.
Gear:

Fender Strat
PRS SE Custom 24
Agile AL-3100

Jet City JCA50H
Randall 2x12 wV30s