#1
Just some philosophy. Don't think it's possible but just thought of this. How long would it take until "everything is invented" on the guitar? A stupid question but just think of it. What would it be in 10000 years?

Let's just take a look on the prevailing genres. It's nowadays extremely hard for a new band to have major success as there are so many bands so more isn't needed. That might be because the bands don't have anything special, new or different with their songs.

And this is just to be contemplated.
#3
It is.

All you can do is re-organize.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#4
While that is interesting, I think the reason new bands are having trouble entering the scene is due to the scene itself. Downloading a new band's material is so much cheaper than buying it. This causes the band to run low on funds, and cut their loses. That's my thoughts on that.

Back on topic: There are only so many ways we can combine the notes. In the end, it comes down to the song I think, rather than the licks/riffs.
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Piano dick had some good parts, but should have said "As the business man slowly gets boned", would have accented the whole dick feeling of the album
#5
Quote by Billie_J
Just some philosophy. Don't think it's possible but just thought of this. How long would it take until "everything is invented" on the guitar? A stupid question but just think of it. What would it be in 10000 years?

Let's just take a look on the prevailing genres. It's nowadays extremely hard for a new band to have major success as there are so many bands so more isn't needed. That might be because the bands don't have anything special, new or different with their songs.

And this is just to be contemplated.


Good idea, but I have several issues with it.

First, and perhaps most obviously, who's to say that the guitar will be anything like we know it well into the future? Especially 1000 years. Look at how much it's changed since the early '30s: less than 90 years! And you're considering that it will be technologically the same in 1000?

Secondly, you're presenting your position as though there is nothing outside of guitar. The possibilities expand considerably when you take into account, say, guitar and banjo. At best, naive of you. At worst, provincial.

Lastly, where would music be today if we only considered- if we limited ourselves to- what is "prevailing"? Before blues was formed, how would music have been shaped if everyone at the time went along with the "prevailing" idea that a minor third and major third cannot be played together? There would be no blues, and no rock or any of its sub-genres. Certainly, you and I would not be here doing what we are today.

I really tried not to sound too harsh or condescending, but I apologize if I did.
#6
Well I had a better idea of expressing this while writing but apparently chose the wrong words or so..
#7
Everything has been invented. No one is making new sounds with a guitar anymore. Technology has and will continue to extend its sound. As for bands and stuff that's a different question because you're talking about styles of music now. Guitar-centric music styles will probably start to borrow from less creatively bankrupt styles.

Quote by Jake P
Secondly, you're presenting your position as though there is nothing outside of guitar. The possibilities expand considerably when you take into account, say, guitar and banjo. At best, naive of you. At worst, provincial.

Using the word provincial is provincial.
#8
It depends.

When you say "everything is invented and used" are you referring to the process of creative expression or the content?

(In other words, the means of expression vs. the idea which is expressed.)

The musician is similar to the writer insofar as the latter is using a language that was already established before he was born.

Nevertheless, in spite of this fact, the world continues to change around us, humans continue to evolve (or devolve, depending on your sociopolitical perspective) new books and songs continue to be written, year after year, decade after decade, century after century, etc., etc.

Since we're getting philosophical, here's my 0.02 on creativity:

Each one of us is a unique human being with a unique perspective.

Hence, each of us has a unique story to tell - whether your chosen medium is music, literature, visual arts, or whatever.

Here's the rub: Discovering (and owning) that story is often difficult and painful (and can take a long time.)

However, once you find your unique "voice" as an artist, then things like theory and technique are secondary to the expression of ideas.

In the rock idiom, we can all name guitar players who were not monster technicians and not virtuosos by any stretch but who changed the face of popular music.

/philosophizing

#9
I think everything's been done in some facsimile of origin by now, but that doesn't mean it can't be done in a different way. For example - a I-IV-V progression has been done to death for decades and beyond, but the WAY you play it, and in conjunction with what else, might be different than the guy beside you. Every progression's been played, for sure, but it's sort of like a punch, isn't it? Maybe the idea is the same, but how you make it work for you in each varied situation can lend something old a new quality - how emotive is your playing when you use it? Where do you pick/strum harder? What are you conveying with it? What color is it over? There are so many variables, I believe that while we've likely explored every scientific/technical avenue, I think we're probably only scratching the surface of the possibility of music. And this is all taking what we as humans understand about music based on our experience with music thus far. What we know and seems so absolute now might be revealed as a speck in a hundred or two more years' time.

As far as breaking into the 'scene' or getting signed, the advent of digital distribution and in-home recording altered that schematic. It's a double-edged sword, I think. On one hand, you can, with a moderate amount of knowledge and, at this point, a couple hundred bucks or so, record your own music with a decent quality. Then you can, for free, distribute it on your own. That makes distribution and consumer access easy, but I think it also takes away the desirability to an extent. It also has made it much more difficult to 'get signed,' or have that 'living musician' lifestyle that was really glorified and prevalent into the early 2000s. Now you've got bands that can promote themselves, book their own shows, and sell their own music - Periphery, love or hate them, are a great example of that.

Where will it go? Hell if I know. I'll enjoy the ride, though.
This signature is worth TONS of money. You should see what you can get for it.
#10
as long as there are humans (and according to the news..THAT may be ending soon) there will be creative expression through music..the tools to do that (the 12 tone scale & instruments) are not limiting..2 quick examples..paul simon & the beatles songbooks..some songs use just simple chords and melodies..and they may be used in different songs in many different ways..
so between simon & the beatles there must be close to 500 (or even more) songs..and that's just the ones in song books..now just add water and the millions of songs known and unknown..see if you can find the "lack"..it may be quality..but be certain..its not quantity

as for guitar..the truly inventive seems to use it in ways it was never meant to be used..it is rare to discover these folks..but they influence many in their discoveries. I am sure this will continue..we may not even recognize it as a guitar in the far future..but that's not a problem we will have to deal with..

in the meantime..keep finding new ways to invert, pervert, insert, desert - the 12 tone system and the 26 letter alphabet .. their limits are not be seen for quite a while
play well

wolf
#11
Sure, if music was only 4-part piano reductions, but it's not. Half of the piece is in the arrangement and orchestration.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Apr 19, 2015,
#12
just my opinion.. everything can never be invented.. every single human being that has ever been born in this world has been unique and different from everyone else that's ever been born in the world. just like snowflakes no 2 people will ever be exactly alike and thus people will always find personal and unique ways to do things differently than anyone else ever has before.
#14
When something is used once, it doesn't mean it can't be used any more. 12 bar blues is a good example. It has been done a million times (same with the basic blues licks played over it) and I'm sure in the future there will still be more 12 bar blues songs.

You can write a lot of songs using exactly the same progression. You can write a lot of songs using exactly the same rhythm. It's about the way you combine parts.


Also, people have always said "all music has already been written", but somehow there's always some new music style. Good examples of pretty new styles are dubstep and djent.

A lot of stuff has been done on the guitar. But electric guitar is still a pretty young instrument when compared to instruments like violin or piano. I'm pretty sure there's some new stuff to be discovered. And it also has a lot more tone shaping possibilities than acoustic instruments.

Maybe it's better not to wonder about things like this. Just write music. What happens in the future, happens in the future. Don't worry about it too much. And you can't even know about it yet.
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#15
"Put enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter..."

Also let's think about all the great innovators, rather than inventors.

Wagner, according to Sam Dunn's documentary, was known for shaking the rafters with his bass clef.
Muddy Waters, distortion guitar was an accident and he liked it!
Tom Morello didn't invent scratch guitar, but who else comes to mind?
Van Halen brought tapping into the general public but the technique itself is old as string fret instruments.

And the constant influx of new genres.

Iggy Pop, godfather of punk, and made stage diving reality.
Tony Iommi, considered by many to have started heavy metal.
Dubstep, Idk much about it but it's a solid new thing, remember Romantic era music wasn't 100% accepted at first either
And fusion genres all day!

Chances are, when man discovered music, he probably flew past all the novel basics in a few centuries, but yet we still make new and interesting music not because of the progressions and notes, but becausewe may nnever run outta ways to use them, and even if we do, there will be innovation to the end.
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

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My motto: Play what the song needs you to play!
Last edited by eric_wearing at Apr 21, 2015,
#16
^I would like to point out that Peter Gabriel was stage diving in Genesis when Iggy Pop was still in high school.

Doesn't take away from your point though.

All the constituent parts of music have been discovered, it's up to us to combine and re-direct them in an interesting way.

Asking if everything has been done isn't the right question to ask. You should be asking what you can do to take your music to whatever the "next level" for you is.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp