#1
I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on my new guitar and I want to know which do you figure would be a better value/sound better? Looking for a Mastodon type sound. The guitar will be tuned to BADGBE.
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#2
Quote by BV-95
I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on my new guitar and I want to know which do you figure would be a better value/sound better? Looking for a Mastodon type sound. The guitar will be tuned to BADGBE.


Having played both be warned that the Agile is significantly heavier then even some Les Paul models. I owned an EC-401 about 2 years ago. It was pretty good for the money but it very quickly left me wanting more.

From what I can see the EC-401 costs about 450-500 dollars and the Agile costs about 400 dollars. If it was me and I was already willing to spend about 500 dollars on the LTD, I'd just save an extra 50 dollars and buy a brand new B-Stock LTD EC-1000 VB that is made significantly better. Having owned both LTD guitars and played all 3 I think for just that little bit more you're getting a world more out of the EC-1000 then either other guitar for a small amount more money. If it has to be the 2 then I'd say the LTD.

Here is a link to one of the LTD EC-1000 VBs on ebay. The B stocks are the way to go, they save you a boatload of money and having owned 4-5 LTD B stocks I havent found one where I can find the flaw that made it B stock. This includes both an EC-401 and an EC-1000

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP-LTD-EC-1000-VB-Eclipse-Deluxe-Electric-Guitar-EMGs-Vintage-Black-B-STOCK-/261843338614?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf7144576

Hope this was helpful.
Last edited by cheosamad at Apr 19, 2015,
#3
Is the 1000 really that much better than the 401? What makes it better?
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#4
Quote by BV-95
Is the 1000 really that much better than the 401? What makes it better?


Firstly the finish is a lot smoother and easier to play around on. I find that I enjoy a Satin Finished neck much more then a gloss finish. The Ec-1000 is also a set neck design as opposed to the bolt on 401. The 1000 comes with name branded EMG or Seymour Duncan pickups that are very well made and hot as opposed to the sort of flubby made in shop pups that come with the 401. The EC-1000 is just a drastically better made instrument. They look similar but if you pick them up one after the other the difference is night and day.
#5
Quote by cheosamad
The 1000 comes with name branded EMG or Seymour Duncan pickups that are very well made and hot as opposed to the sort of flubby made in shop pups that come with the 401.


The 401 comes with an EMG 81/60 set, you know that right?

I hear you on the finish/neck construction though. I'll have to put both of them in my hands and see which I like better since both of those are personal preference obviously. I work at guitar center so that won't be a problem

I'm not going to go with a b-stock guitar though. Whatever I get I'll be buying new and at gc so I can get the pro coverage.
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#6
ec400's are much nicer than ec401's IMO i had both and an ec1000. the ec400 and ec1000 were pretty close, i kind of felt that you pay more for the bling and cosmetic stuff. the ec401 was my least favorite.

i sold them all. they were OK but nothing amazing.

if you are expecting for a LP feel, they are quite different than the EC's.

what is drawing you toward the EC's?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#7
Quote by trashedlostfdup
what is drawing you toward the EC's?


Well I want the fat, big tone that you get from a les paul shaped guitar; and the EC-401 comes stock with an EMG 81/60 pickup set, which are good for the tone I am going for.
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#8
Quote by BV-95
Well I want the fat, big tone that you get from a les paul shaped guitar; and the EC-401 comes stock with an EMG 81/60 pickup set, which are good for the tone I am going for.


shape =/= to tone

my EC's were way different than my LP's.

have you played the EC before/much? compared to a LP?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#9
I've played the EC-1000 and the LPJ both briefly.

What would you honestly suggest then? Epiphone LP Standard Plus Top?
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#10
Quote by BV-95
The 401 comes with an EMG 81/60 set, you know that right?

I hear you on the finish/neck construction though. I'll have to put both of them in my hands and see which I like better since both of those are personal preference obviously. I work at guitar center so that won't be a problem

I'm not going to go with a b-stock guitar though. Whatever I get I'll be buying new and at gc so I can get the pro coverage.


Since when? When i bought the EC 401 it came with ESP branded pickups. maybe they've upped the specs in the last year? As for not going B stock, I can understand your stance, but you really are missing out on some incredible deals. That being said LTD as a brand in general is still really reasonably priced.

Edit- I am so sorry. I've actually been completely mixing up 2 of the EC models. I was thinking of the old 330, not the 401. Throw everything I said about the cheaper guitar out the window as I've made a total fool of myself. Sorry about that. (The Ec-1000) is still awesome.
Last edited by cheosamad at Apr 20, 2015,
#11
Quote by BV-95
I've played the EC-1000 and the LPJ both briefly.

What would you honestly suggest then? Epiphone LP Standard Plus Top?


LPJ's are way different. pretty poor IMO (assuming you mean LPJ and not Les Paul Jr).

i honestly have played maybe two epiphone LP's in the last five years, and maybe three agiles (picked them up off of the rack off of curiosity). i think agile and epi are pretty similar. one you can try out and the other is blind. so that is a factor.

honestly i just like my gibsons .

the EC1000 and EC400 aren't bad, but they are different feeling and sounding than gibson. totally different.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#12
Quote by cheosamad
Since when? When i bought the EC 401 it came with ESP branded pickups. maybe they've upped the specs in the last year? As for not going B stock, I can understand your stance, but you really are missing out on some incredible deals. That being said LTD as a brand in general is still really reasonably priced.


http://www.guitarcenter.com/ESP-LTD-EC-401-Electric-Guitar-105611990-i1435799.gc

And boom goes the dynamite.

I'd rather miss out on a deal and when my guitar breaks in 1 year have it be completely replaced.
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#13
Quote by trashedlostfdup


honestly i just like my gibsons .




If only I could afford one

Do you think a standard Epi LP Plus Top with an EMG 81/60 installed will give me the tone I want? I'd love to go Gibson if I could, please believe... its just not an option right now.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-PlusTop-Pro-Electric-Guitar-107602575-i2257298.gc
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#15
Quote by cheosamad
The B stock guitars come with a warranty as well. They aren't just like throwaway guitars.


A warranty isn't the same thing as coverage. A warranty covers defective products. It won't cover me dropping the guitar and breaking the neck in half or if someone spills a beer on the guitar or something like that.
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#16
Quote by BV-95
A warranty isn't the same thing as coverage. A warranty covers defective products. It won't cover me dropping the guitar and breaking the neck in half or if someone spills a beer on the guitar or something like that.


Qoute from ESPs site under what they will not replace/repair.

17- All other defects, deterioration, and damage due to normal use, wear and tear, aging, misuse, neglect, improper operation, abuse, accident, theft, or acts of Nature.

Those sorts of accidents don't seem to be covered.
If I'm seeming to miss the point entirely then please let me know what information I should be looking at.

http://www.espguitars.com/pages/warranty
#17
Quote by cheosamad
Qoute from ESPs site under what they will not replace/repair.

17- All other defects, deterioration, and damage due to normal use, wear and tear, aging, misuse, neglect, improper operation, abuse, accident, theft, or acts of Nature.

Those sorts of accidents don't seem to be covered.
If I'm seeming to miss the point entirely then please let me know what information I should be looking at.

http://www.espguitars.com/pages/warranty


You're right, ESP doesn't cover it. That's why I'm gonna buy it from gc and get the pro coverage. Pro Coverage DOES cover those things.

Maybe this image will help:

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Last edited by BV-95 at Apr 20, 2015,
#18
Quote by BV-95
If only I could afford one

Do you think a standard Epi LP Plus Top with an EMG 81/60 installed will give me the tone I want? I'd love to go Gibson if I could, please believe... its just not an option right now.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-PlusTop-Pro-Electric-Guitar-107602575-i2257298.gc


i honestly don't know which you would like. they are different, they each have a niche. EC's are great for metal. LP's are great for metal too, and IMO a little better with blues though.

do you have some place to try them at?

i am the wrong person to ask about epiphones. i don't own any and if i demo something at GC i just grab a gibson. its up to you, everybody is different. you just have to play it and see what you like. gibson isn't the end-all either.

agile and epi are probably so similar that with EMG's you couldn't tell the difference (hell maybe gibson too). its probably more of a feel thing with the LP's.

EMG's aren't the end-all, there are tons of good pickups. but it is nice to have at least one guitar with them (i have two with EMG's, a Gibson SG and a Charvel), and ****ton of others with different passives.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#19
i wouldn't waste the money on a warranty. its not like they are that fragile.

remember they offer coverage because they make money on it.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#20
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i honestly don't know which you would like. they are different, they each have a niche. EC's are great for metal. LP's are great for metal too, and IMO a little better with blues though.

do you have some place to try them at?

i am the wrong person to ask about epiphones. i don't own any and if i demo something at GC i just grab a gibson. its up to you, everybody is different. you just have to play it and see what you like. gibson isn't the end-all either.

agile and epi are probably so similar that with EMG's you couldn't tell the difference (hell maybe gibson too). its probably more of a feel thing with the LP's.

EMG's aren't the end-all, there are tons of good pickups. but it is nice to have at least one guitar with them (i have two with EMG's, a Gibson SG and a Charvel), and ****ton of others with different passives.


I work at guitar center, so trying guitars isn't really a problem. It's just that I don't have the ability to try out Epiphone's with EMGs in them already, but I CAN try out an EC-401 with EMGs in it already.

It isn't that I think EMGs are the end-all-be-all of metal pickups (hell my Strat has a DiMarzio crunch lab in it that i LOOOVE) they just happen to be great pickups that came stock in a guitar I was looking at. I'd rather have a guitar come stock with great pickups than me have to add them after market.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
i wouldn't waste the money on a warranty. its not like they are that fragile.

remember they offer coverage because they make money on it.


Pro coverage is dope. I'm going to be gigging with this guitar. I'm gonna want coverage in case something happens so I'm not out another 700 dollars on an axe.

And btw, anything any business does is to make money.
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Last edited by BV-95 at Apr 20, 2015,
#21
Quote by BV-95
I work at guitar center, so trying guitars isn't really a problem. It's just that I don't have the ability to try out Epiphone's with EMGs in them already, but I CAN try out an EC-401 with EMGs in it already.

It isn't that I think EMGs are the end-all-be-all of metal pickups (hell my Strat has a DiMarzio crunch lab in it that i LOOOVE) they just happen to be great pickups that came stock in a guitar I was looking at. I'd rather have a guitar come stock with great pickups than me have to add them after market.


Pro coverage is dope. I'm going to be gigging with this guitar. I'm gonna want coverage in case something happens so I'm not out another 700 dollars on an axe.

And btw, anything any business does is to make money.


i love my crunch lab.

honestly it would come down to what do you like the feel of better, the Epi or the EC. i remembering my EC's more metally than my LPs, but my LP's were fatter and had more sustain and more life in them (if that makes sense).

the only really concrete i can say is that the ec400 would be much better than the ec401. ec400 and ec1000 are so similar in feel, that i am not sure i would spend more on an ec1000.

what is your specific budget?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#22
With pickups included if they need to be replaced, I'd like to close this guitar at something around 700 retail price.
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
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If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#23
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#24
If I try the 401 and I'm not absolutely in love with it; that is something I'll definitely look into. It's not in stock at my guitar center is the reason I say that.
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
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If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#25
Quote by BV-95
If I try the 401 and I'm not absolutely in love with it; that is something I'll definitely look into. It's not in stock at my guitar center is the reason I say that.


have fun and good luck!
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#26
I'd concentrate more on the feel of the different models you're considering. The LTD's have a thin U neck which is very different from what you get on most Epi's and Gibsons.

You can always swap out any pickups. Figure out how you want the neck and body to feel and play. Then put in the EMG's if you want them.

If you like the feel and play of a model with the EMG's in it already then all the better.

You work at GC, you should have an awesome return policy to try a few out.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#27
Two things:

The Agile AL-3100MC currently available is lighter (because the body is a bit thinner) than previous Agile 3100s, and it has a full-thickness maple cap (the 3100 I own is several years old and does not, though it's a black guitar and it really doesn't matter). I've played the lower end LTDs (we've got seven GC's within driving distance), and while I didn't mind them, I was not particularly impressed. If the EMG setup is important to you, then they're fine. The LPJ (as in Junque, not the Junior) is nowhere near the quality level of either of them, and I definitely wouldn't touch it. I should note that my choices include four Agiles (a custom build, a 3100 Floyd, a 2000 Floyd and an AD-2300 (LP Special DC clone). All are stellar, but none have EMGs.

The Pro Coverage at GC should be avoided. Two reasons: One, I've got 50 guitars and have played in some dodgy locations and traveled with them under dodgy conditions, and I've never had anything befall them that would have activated this coverage. Guitar Center offers this coverage for the same reason that random companies offer "extended warrantees" on cars. The chances of anything triggering the coverage are so low that the company simply pockets the money. Something like 99%. If you're a complete idiot, however, you may want this coverage. I *DO* have my guitars insured, but you can get all-risks marine insurance and have guitars or camera gear (or whatever) insured for an agreed-upon replacement value, etc. and be covered for liability (your gear fell on the cute girl in the third row), which is far more important, for less money through a good property and casualty insurance company. I think the Pro Coverage at GC is a great idea for the terminally stupid; those stupid enough to put their guitars heavily at risk and those stupid enough to pay the inflated prices.
#28
Hey man, you're entitled to your opinion on the pro coverage. I just disagree. I'd rather be out 80 bucks than risk being out another 700 in two years.
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#29
You don't really risk being out another 700 in two years, though. Not in any meaningful way. The warranty only lasts two years (or 3 or 5, I assume they're more expensive), it only covers repair and not replacement (have you ever seen a major repair done at GC? I'd be scared...) and they're going to weasel out of any major issue by calling it "willful neglect" and minor ones by calling it a "setup" which of course isn't covered. Plus they're going to charge you for a diagnostic fee and then probably shipping to and from a "designated repair center" when their local monkey can't fix whatever major issue you manage to bring upon yourself within the warranty period.

Plus, do you really think any damage you do is going to total the guitar? You're not out $700, you're out the cost of repair. A shitty repair on an inexpensive instrument doesn't make you whole for the $780+ you overpaid the first time.

For the price of a new EC401 and the warranty and tax you could literally just buy two used ones. I think dspellman's got the right idea on this one.
#30
You'll definitely want to read the list of exclusions. The policy is a repair policy, not a replacement policy, and it excludes things like damage that happens during transit (most accidents happen either in the distance between the car and the venue or when the load shifts in your car/truck), etc. There's no guarantee as to the amount of time that your guitar will be out of your hands during any repair process, and they do NOT guarantee to use original manufacturers' parts if there are cheaper options. If you've modified the guitar (non original wiring, pots, pickups, bridge, tailpiece, tuners, they're not going to fix it for you. They will send the guitar to one of their "network of professionals" and if one can't do the work, it may be shipped off to another one. Anything NOT covered by the original manufacturer's warranty is NOT covered by this warranty. And so on. I realize that you work for Guitar Splinter, and have been thoroughly indoctrinated (so that you can go and sell these extended warranties with enthusiasm). There's probably a commission on these. Nonetheless, they're a bad idea, even for a GC employee.
#31
Guys, I work for guitar center. I know how pro coverage works. I send in the damaged guitar and I get a gift card for the amount I payed for the guitar + tax. It is a replacement plan, not a repair plan. The repair plan pro coverage is for used items only. New items get completely replaced under pro coverage.

EDIT:

Wow, indoctrinated? Really?

Whatever, I don't want to continue this discussion. It is obvious we disagree on the value of pro coverage and that is fine, but negative comments like that are completely unnecessary. Have a good one, man.
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
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If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
Last edited by BV-95 at Apr 20, 2015,