#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypacXdOuzJw

here we have two sine waves.

la monte young was an abstract american artist. this song is (obvioiusly) from his 1960 collection of works.

He had pretty normal influences. Bartok, Weburn, Coltrane, etc.

he is an influence on several significant bands, such as Velvet Underground, Brian Eno, and Andy Warhol

anyway the point is not about his background, although it is very interesting and people should.

basically, it's a cool song that people should listen to because why not
superman is killing himself tonight
#2
Beats Yoko Ono. I didn't even hate this. Try harder
Last edited by Elintasokas at Apr 21, 2015,
#4
Good ol' fluxus. Very typical of the style, at least for now before Young got heavily into minimalism.

Although I dunno if we can fully appreciate this without the whole set.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositions_1960#Pieces

I was never really super into Young, I feel like Cage kicked his ass in the fluxus related department, and Reich kicked his ass in minimalism.

Not that its a contest or anything. But Young to me was like the A Day To Remember of his medium.

Not punk enough to be punk, not metal enough to be metal. Jack of all trades, master of none.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#5
Quote by Jet Penguin
Not that its a contest or anything. But Young to me was like the A Day To Remember of his medium.

Not punk enough to be punk, not metal enough to be metal. Jack of all trades, master of none.


I love you.
#6
Awwwwww. Thanks. Come buy me a drink, I'm out of bourbon
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#7
Wow a 10 minute song of two sine waves making a perfect fifth its so genius, like why has nobody ever done this before? I use tone generators every so often, but to make a SONG out of two tones... PUT TOGETHER? Sooooo genius! The best part is definitely when the tones don't change. Now I am just awaiting for somebody to figure out how to stack a third tone on top. Then, we would have a chord made out of sine waves, and, mark my words, THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME
#8
Quote by chronic_stp
Wow a 10 minute song of two sine waves making a perfect fifth its so genius, like why has nobody ever done this before? I use tone generators every so often, but to make a SONG out of two tones... PUT TOGETHER? Sooooo genius! The best part is definitely when the tones don't change. Now I am just awaiting for somebody to figure out how to stack a third tone on top. Then, we would have a chord made out of sine waves, and, mark my words, THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME

this is what we were waiting for thanks for being #shook

big up lmy
#9
Quote by chronic_stp
Wow a 10 minute song of two sine waves making a perfect fifth its so genius, like why has nobody ever done this before? I use tone generators every so often, but to make a SONG out of two tones... PUT TOGETHER? Sooooo genius! The best part is definitely when the tones don't change. Now I am just awaiting for somebody to figure out how to stack a third tone on top. Then, we would have a chord made out of sine waves, and, mark my words, THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME


SPOILERS!
#10
Does somebody really have the patience to listen to this for the whole ten minutes? I got pretty annoyed after like 30 seconds.

So yes, I absolutely hated it (I just laughed at the Yoko Ono piece, it didn't make me angry or anything - this was way worse). But I'm entitled to have my opinion about it.

(And I'm not saying it's not art - I just simply hated the piece.)
Quote by AlanHB
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#11
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Does somebody really have the patience to listen to this for the whole ten minutes? I got pretty annoyed after like 30 seconds.

So yes, I absolutely hated it (I just laughed at the Yoko Ono piece, it didn't make me angry or anything - this was way worse). But I'm entitled to have my opinion about it.

(And I'm not saying it's not art - I just simply hated the piece.)

You just lack taste! Simple minded commoner who doesn't understand real art!
#12
Quote by Elintasokas
You just lack taste! Simple minded commoner who doesn't understand real art!

Go listen to Justin Bieber.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#13
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Go listen to Justin Bieber.

Why?

(Btw, if you didn't notice, my post was 110% sarcastic)
#15
Quote by Baby Joel


basically, it's a cool song that people should listen to because why not

Yeah, sure. You don't even believe that yourself. If this is your idea of a "cool song", then your standards sure are pretty damn low.

I could pick the G string on my guitar for 10 minutes or mash the C4 key on my piano. Would that also be a cool song? I mean, it's basically the same thing.

Or maybe it wouldn't, because my name isn't La Monte Young and I'm not known in the academic circles.

Or is it the sine wave that makes it so good? Would a saw or square wave be much worse?
Last edited by Elintasokas at Apr 22, 2015,
#16
Quote by Duaneclapdrix
What do you enjoy about the song babby?

mainly, it's the context that i like. and i think sounds are cool.

Quote by Elintasokas
You don't even believe that yourself.

i was planning on seeing a psychic this weekend, but i don't need ot anymore since apparently you can read my mind

If this is your idea of a "cool song", then your standards sure are pretty damn low.

who the fuck are you to set standards, and to talk about mine.


I could pick the G string on my guitar for 10 minutes or mash the C4 key on my piano. Would that also be a cool song? I mean, it's basically the same thing.

sure sound is sound

Or maybe it wouldn't, because my name isn't La Monte Young and I'm not known in the academic circles.

ok

Or is it the sine wave that makes it so good? Would a saw or square wave be much worse?

you're being really stupid so i'm not even going to respond to this.

and man, I moved out of Utah to get awa from the great salt lake. i'm gonna have to move again seeing as you're making another salt lake.
superman is killing himself tonight
#17
I adore LMY, even if the status of his awareness of what he was really doing is under question. Eliane Radigue and Charlemagne Palestine did tone studies better for the most part, though some of LMY's Drift Studies are amazing.

Tbh tho comparing Reich to Young is apples to oranges. Totally different sorts of minimalism with totally different stylistic approaches and root influences.
Last edited by Banjocal at Apr 22, 2015,
#18
Quote by Baby Joel

you're being really stupid so i'm not even going to respond to this.

and man, I moved out of Utah to get awa from the great salt lake. i'm gonna have to move again seeing as you're making another salt lake.

If I'm salty, then so are you. Calling me stupid and all. It was a legitimate question and I don't see how it was stupid.
#21
Quote by Elintasokas
Why?

(Btw, if you didn't notice, my post was 110% sarcastic)

And you think mine wasn't?
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#22
I think it's an interesting piece. It should be noted that the piece is actually a B and an F# marked "to be held for a long time." There's no indication as to instrumentation at all. So while this is the purest expression of the piece it's also the least interesting. When you have two instruments with full harmonic spectrums interacting the piece is a lot more eventful than pure sine tones.

It's very still and a cool experience when you listen for a while.
#23
^This.

Spectralism rules, and this sine wave rendering leaves out all the harmonics which is the real interesting part.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#24
There is an area which focused on how single tones are heard differently depending on position of the head, movement, and how we genuinely find subtle changes in something where there are none. While I don't know if Young was doing that here, like with Vomir or something, you start to hear different things in a weird sort of hyper-focused state. Like meditating.

Ryoji Ikeda did it with Matrix, though that was a little more dynamic. Bar Sachiko is famous in Japanese circles for taking that idea to the absolute extreme (well, almost) and while it's near-unlistenable if you try with headphones and/or without knowing about that stuff, walking around a house with it on at a decent volume makes you at least think, if nothing else. But I wouldn't recommend it when Eleh and Ikeda are about.

EDIT: while I'm here I might as well recommend my drone blog where I post about everything from metaminimalism to my inability to maintain an erection while sunn o))) are playing in the background
they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
Last edited by Banjocal at Apr 22, 2015,
#25
Now we're getting somewhere.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#29
Mod stuff:

So are you guys going to self moderate here? Or are we just going to have more sarcasm, and cliquey chest bumping. I'm not singling anyone out at this stage, it's coming from both sides. If there's a discussion worth having then have it. Otherwise let it go.

===============

Quote by Jet Penguin
Good ol' fluxus. Very typical of the style, at least for now before Young got heavily into minimalism.


Serious question: Was the fluxus movement a complete failure in terms of intent?

I didn't know what fluxus was so looked into it briefly. Granted I don't have a great understanding at this stage but read the manifesto found in Wikipedia. It stated that they wanted to "purge the world of bourgeois sickness, "intellectual" professional and commercialized culture." and to "promote living art, anti art, promote non art reality to be grasped by all peoples not only critics dilletantes and professionals"

It seems that of all the artistic movements this is perhaps the most esoteric. It seems to be the least accessible to everyday people and is appreciated pretty much only by the bourgeois, critics, dilletantes, and professionals. It's reliance on context and interpretation makes it more suited to intellectual, professional, commercialized culture in order for it to work. This is NOT art for all people.

But perhaps that is the point. Perhaps it is a deliberate mockery of the intellectual, professional, commercialized culture that takes shit in a can, people screaming in a museum, or two sine waves for ten minutes and calls it art. Maybe it is a case of the emperor's new clothes. Maybe the point was to take the intellectuals, bourgeois, critics, dilletantes, and professionals and expose them by giving them shit and calling it art while everyday people watch in bewilderment.

I don't really know I haven't studied art history. I just put that last part in their for JRF

Regardless, if that is the fluxus manifesto then did they succeed or did they fail?
Si
#30
No that last part is more or less accurate. It's a little of both.

IIRC, part of the fluxus philosophy was not taking itself too seriously.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#31
I know you thought I was fucking around but I seriously didn't understand the emperor's new clothes analogy. I now get that you mean the clothes are the art and I'm the emperor. I'm not exactly sure who the tailors are, I guess the artists, but that doesn't really make sense. I still don't really get why it's supposed to work as an analogy but whatever idc.


I don't think it's useful to view artistic movements as being a success or a failure. I mean, from the standpoint of the manifesto I guess you would say that never happened, but I don't think you can judge the entire movement based on that. That was a pretty ambitious statement.

That said, Fluxus had a massive influence, which is still being felt. The anti-art mentality is still very real for a lot of artists, the diy attitude is very present in arts culture today, the questions that it asked about "what is art?" have been important in opening up possibilities for artists and mixed media/integrated arts are only growing more rapidly. These are all ideas that were important to Fluxus and furthered by artists associated with it.

While I agree that Fluxus is fundamentally intellectual and they never crossed that boundary into art for the everyman or whatever, there's nothing commercial about it at all. Also, I don't know whether Fluxus took themselves seriously or not (I've never heard of anything that says they didn't) but I can pretty confidently say they meant what they did utterly. They weren't kidding, they weren't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes and they weren't the tailors. If it was a mockery of anything it was a mockery of more conventional art.
#32
^this.

Looking back at what I wrote, I think it's more that there was an element of humor and/or satire in their work, and they took THAT seriously.

What he means by the clothes analogy Zach, is that the art is the clothes, the artists are the people, AND the emperor.

20T is postulating that part of the anti-art, fluxus, and similar movements (if I understand 20T correctly) was to make a bunch of insane stuff like Elintasokas' cassette noises and this piece, and present it to the regular community of non-artists as if it was a masterpiece and that they, the non-intellectuals, were tragically uninformed, in an attempt to satirically highlight the absurdity of the debate about the definition of art.

TLDR: Artists make a bunch of crap and call it art in order to satire hard on the intellectuals and their BS.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#33
well it's not so much that there is an emperor or necessarily an outright fraudster. Those are the details in the story explaining how the situation came about. The point of the story is not in the details of who's who but in the social commentary about the nature of people. As the story goes the tailors tell people that the material is unique in that the only people that can see it are those that are worthy of their station. You could alter the story so that the tailors were in earnest and believed this themselves. It doesn't change the point of the story.

The similarity here is allegedly that people see shit in a can and come up with all sorts of amazing things to say about it's value as art, while the people with no concern about sounding smart or not point out the obvious...it's shit in a can.

Also even if the tailors were trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes it would only work if they sell it as though they aren't. It's the same with the artists. If they were in fact trying to pull the wool over the art world's eyes they would want everyone to believe they were completely in earnest.

I'm not saying they were, and it doesn't really matter. The effect of the movement, as you pointed out, has been significant and it has challenged and changed the way people view art.

I'm not trying to judge the entire movement as a failure or success in terms of it's impact and influence on the world of art. It gained momentum and was indeed revolutionary, regardless of whether it was a joke or achieved it's stated goals. I'm asking if it was a success in terms of what they set out to do. Like I said I'm not an art history major and don't know much about the movement except what I read on Wikipedia.
Si