#1
hello, this is something i have been wondering about for a while, but i haven't remembered to ask. i have seen two people playing in the last month or two on a LP with the neck pickup flipped. i also have a wolfgang that the pckup screws are going the same direction, so i am assuming that they are reversed too.

does flipping the neck pickup make a difference alone?

what does it do to the middle position? i like the middle position better on my wolfgang than on my les pauls, it just makes me wonder if it would be a good thing to do.

i know i could just try it, but i would like to hear some experience, or theory.

has anybody messed around with it? or even a habitual flipper?
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#2
First off, turning the pickup around makes no difference to phase, the major possible component of middle switch-position effect. You either have to flip the magnet or reverse the wires for that. I put the screw poles on the inside, ie facing inwards towards each other, because I select the screw-pole coils as single coils (ie coil tap) for good string-to-string balance, and prefer them to be further away from both the neck and the bridge. I don't think it think it makes much difference if you are using them as full humbuckers.
#3
Quote by Tony Done
First off, turning the pickup around makes no difference to phase, the major possible component of middle switch-position effect. You either have to flip the magnet or reverse the wires for that. I put the screw poles on the inside, ie facing inwards towards each other, because I select the screw-pole coils as single coils (ie coil tap) for good string-to-string balance, and prefer them to be further away from both the neck and the bridge. I don't think it think it makes much difference if you are using them as full humbuckers.


I wasn't thinking about having to reverse the wires on the pickup. I wonder if my Wolfgang came that way.

I don't bother to use coil taps so I may just be a waste of time.

If one humbucker was out of phase what would the middle position sound like?
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


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youre just being a jerk man.



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#4
the flipped pickup thing kinda started with the Peter Green / Gary Moore Les Paul. the neck pickup was put together wrong and resulted in the out of phase sound. now if you flip the pickup it will read the string in a different spot which may result in a slightly different tone
#5
Quote by monwobobbo
the flipped pickup thing kinda started with the Peter Green / Gary Moore Les Paul. the neck pickup was put together wrong and resulted in the out of phase sound. now if you flip the pickup it will read the string in a different spot which may result in a slightly different tone


Is there an example of the out of phase sound?

I am curious, but I am not sure if I am going to try it.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#7
Pretty much what tony said.

I tried this in a couple of cheap guitars, I flipped the magnet in one and swapped the wires in another. Didn't notice a significant difference, and for simplicity's sake I'd recommend swapping the wires if you try it because it's more easily undone - there is one potential problem with this method, though:

The stock humbuckers in my epiphone SG had a the base plate and cover connected to the same ground wire as the coils, which meant when I swapped it over the cover was now connected to the hot wire which carries the output signal. Not a good thing - If I accidentally made any kind of contact with the neck pickup cover while playing, the guitar's sound would be replaced by a loud buzzing momentarily.

I think some humbuckers have a separate ground wire for the cover and the baseplate, though.

edit: as for how it sounds when you've got the bridge and middle pickups out of phase -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blsIQIZuOAo
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#8
Quote by Blompcube
Pretty much what tony said.

I tried this in a couple of cheap guitars, I flipped the magnet in one and swapped the wires in another. Didn't notice a significant difference, and for simplicity's sake I'd recommend swapping the wires if you try it because it's more easily undone - there is one potential problem with this method, though:

The stock humbuckers in my epiphone SG had a the base plate and cover connected to the same ground wire as the coils, which meant when I swapped it over the cover was now connected to the hot wire which carries the output signal. Not a good thing - If I accidentally made any kind of contact with the neck pickup cover while playing, the guitar's sound would be replaced by a loud buzzing momentarily.

I think some humbuckers have a separate ground wire for the cover and the baseplate, though.

edit: as for how it sounds when you've got the bridge and middle pickups out of phase -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blsIQIZuOAo


Cool thanks for the info. I don't think I am going to bother with it.

WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#9
I love middle OoP tones. I've got it on both my bursties with a magnet flip. It's very thin and nasal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHApxSN7dDU

Pretty sure that's Greeny's OoP tone.
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Last edited by H4T3BR33D3R at Apr 25, 2015,
#10
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I love middle OoP tones. I've got it on both my bursties with a magnet flip. It's very thin and nasal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHApxSN7dDU

Pretty sure that's Greeny's OoP tone.


yeah that's it. gary moore used that tone with more distortion on some of his blues albums especially the Blues For Greeny (perter green tribute album).
#11
My Vintage Lemon Drop came like that.The middle position sounds cool.Kinda thin and almost like a Wah about 60% pressed.I believe that along with the pickup being the opposite way around it is wired the opposite way too.
#12
I've got several guitars with switches that will allow the two pickups to be out of phase with each other. If both are at the same volume, you'll get a very nasal middle position sound, as if it were coming through a phone. If you increase or decrease the volume on either pickup, you'll find a selection of tones that sort of combine that with the sound of the pickup that's still dialed up.

The phase switch is usually a miniswitch (very common on Carvins, which often have two coil tap switches and the phase switch). Some guitars have a different control arrangement that includes a BLEND knob instead of a volume knob for each pickup. This really lets you explore the various tones available due to the phase differences.

The old Gibson L6-S didn't have a phase switch, but it did have a six-position pickup selector, which included (of course) the standard neck pickup only, bridge pickup only and both pickups selected, serial (standard hum bucker), in phase. In addition, there were three more positions that included parallel (in and out of phase) and a parallel out of phase position that put an inductor on the neck pickup to reduce bass output. It also delayed the signal just a bit, and it's a really nice choice. That, coupled with a mids rolloff pot (in addition to the treble rolloff pot we usually call a "tone" pot) makes for some great tone options.
#13
Quote by monwobobbo
yeah that's it. gary moore used that tone with more distortion on some of his blues albums especially the Blues For Greeny (perter green tribute album).


Yeah, it's a pretty classic tone and I actually use it quite a bit. Best part is if you want your regular middle pickup tone, you just have to turn the volume of one of the pickups down a bit.


Quote by EyeballPaul
My Vintage Lemon Drop came like that.The middle position sounds cool.Kinda thin and almost like a Wah about 60% pressed.I believe that along with the pickup being the opposite way around it is wired the opposite way too.



The pickup doesn't have to be turned around. They do that on the VLD because it's supposed to replicate the Greeny. Flipping the pickup does squat, it's flipping the magnet that does it (or wiring).
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#14
On my les Paul, do I just switch the two wires? Do I have to flip the pickup too?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#15
Quote by trashedlostfdup
On my les Paul, do I just switch the two wires? Do I have to flip the pickup too?



You can either switch the wires or flip the magnet. You don't need to flip the pickup. That was just an aesthetic thing.
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#16
i did it and i love how it sounds. good quick free mod to do. its really nice, because i never used the middle position before and now i have something usable.

thanks
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#17
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i did it and i love how it sounds. good quick free mod to do. its really nice, because i never used the middle position before and now i have something usable.

thanks


vid with peter green licks or it didn't happen
#18
Quote by monwobobbo
vid with peter green licks or it didn't happen


haha. i would post a video if i knew how. i don't have any dedicated before sound for before and after though. i guess i could compare it to my other les paul though.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#19
Just a quick comment. The reason that just turning the pickup around so the screw poles are facing the other direction has very little effect is because the difference in string-sensing between the iron slugs and the screw poles is tiny. I only notice the difference between screw poles and iron slugs on coil tap is because I set the screw pole heights for good string-to string-balance. -So the output is more even than if I use the iron slug coil.