#1
i have been trying to figure out the best way to go about optimizing an open back cab/ open back combo. i haven't been gigging for a few months, but i was using an open back orange 2x12 with a 1974x, it worked great, mic'd (and unfortunately once without) but i don't know if there is something better.

i have six or so closed back 4x12"s (i like them, i don't mind transportation and like how they are for metal.

but i haven't really had problems with an open back, it just seems like a lot of people complain about openback cabs.

overall i am happy.

for recording i am using an SM57 through a focusrite 2i4, live a SM57 into the mixer.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#2
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i have been trying to figure out the best way to go about optimizing an open back cab/ open back combo
To achieve what result?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#3
Quote by Spambot_2
To achieve what result?


i am not sure if there is a better way to mic and record to have it sound better.

here are a few thoughts i have. i keep it about 8-12" off of the wall and it seems to disperse some sound out of the back. i like it with medium gain amps, and i am not having problems.

from what people say, i feel like i should be having problems getting good volume disbursement at gigs, with everything people are saying on here.

i know i don't get the same bass response (the big heads have 4x12"s) with a 4x12" but i am doing fine.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#4
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i am not sure if there is a better way to mic and record to have it sound better.
How are you micing the cab?

Are you setting the amp listening to the sound coming from the cab or to the sound going into the interface (using whatever pair of headphones that provide decent isolation)?

What is it that you don't like in the result you're getting and you want to change and how do you want to change it?

Why are you worried that something should not be working while it's obvious that for you it works well?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#5
Quote by Spambot_2
How are you micing the cab?

Are you setting the amp listening to the sound coming from the cab or to the sound going into the interface (using whatever pair of headphones that provide decent isolation)?

What is it that you don't like in the result you're getting and you want to change and how do you want to change it?

Why are you worried that something should not be working while it's obvious that for you it works well?


I am going at a little off center of the speaker at a slight angle.

It's not that I don't like what I am getting, i just want to know if I could make it better. I have ran closed back for so long with success, but people seem to treat open back differently.

I am curious to see if there are better or different methods.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#6
Well you could place the mic in every possible position.

In the middle between the edge and the dustcap, very close to the edge for a more bass-y tone, closer to the speaker for a bit more treble and further for some more mud and some room ambience, angled so you get more reflections coming from the direction the cab's facing...

Try everything and decide what you like best for that particular situation, it's not like there's any "better" way.
What you're doing now is pretty common anyway, so if you like it and you don't wanna spend much time on it you could simply keep at it, since you like the result too.

The biggest way in which you could "experiment" would need you to get another mic, ideally something fairly accurate/transparent and with a good sensitivity (an sE4400a, just to mention one) and place it in the middle of the room so to get the sound of the cab in the room instead of the cab by itself.

Also I still don't understand what's the problem with open back cabs.
If you like it, it's good enough for you, end of the story
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#7
Quote by Spambot_2
Well you could place the mic in every possible position.

In the middle between the edge and the dustcap, very close to the edge for a more bass-y tone, closer to the speaker for a bit more treble and further for some more mud and some room ambience, angled so you get more reflections coming from the direction the cab's facing...

Try everything and decide what you like best for that particular situation, it's not like there's any "better" way.
What you're doing now is pretty common anyway, so if you like it and you don't wanna spend much time on it you could simply keep at it, since you like the result too.

The biggest way in which you could "experiment" would need you to get another mic, ideally something fairly accurate/transparent and with a good sensitivity (an sE4400a, just to mention one) and place it in the middle of the room so to get the sound of the cab in the room instead of the cab by itself.

Also I still don't understand what's the problem with open back cabs.
If you like it, it's good enough for you, end of the story


Thanks! I will look into that mic. I like it and am happy with the cab and tone i just like to see if there are better methods to make it sound better yet!
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#8
i've been using open back combos for a number of years now with no issues in terms of sound dispersion. mic'ing has always been slightly off center. jsut moved the mic around a little til the sound seemed good. on trick for recording is to put a mic behind the cab toget the sound coming from the back. never tried that but i know jimmy page used to to it.
#9
Same here, I've used open back cabs for years with no problems, just have to be picky about setting the bass, it can get flabby if you use too much bass.

I mic the same way, mic against the speaker grille, slightly off center. Further from the center gets more bass..I use that for micing the Fender Champ, it sounds great with the mic about a half inch outside the center cap.

I've wanted to try the Jimmy Page trick, haven't yet. He put a mic behind the amp and one in front, he also did a few of his solos plugged straight into the mixer, no amp at all. Lots of people have used Fender Champs in the studio for guitar, mostly because it's a fabulous sounding amp and not ear bleeding loud like a 100 watt Marshall, and properly miced it can sound as good as a Marshall.

You can also use both and a mic in the middle of the room for ambient sound, but have fun mixing it...

Joe Walsh used a telecaster plugged into a Champ for Funk #49, Peter Frampton used a Champ a lot. Crank everything to 10 and plug in. Eric Clapton used a Champ for the entire Layla album, I think they all used the earlier Champ than mine which only had one knob, Volume. Mine is a 1974 with Volume, Bass and Treble controls. I remember reading an article that said everybody was floored when Clapton walked into the studio with a Strat and a Champ, most guys were hauling in Marshall stacks and Twin Reverbs...On the same album Duanne Allman was probably running either a Fender Showman or Bassman, you can't tell Clapton is using a 6 watt practice amp even by comparing the two. All in the way you mic it...

For a clean sound I like to use my Super Reverb, mic not so far off center, volume around 3 1/2 or so. No effects, not even the volume pedal for recording, if I want a clean sound. Echo if I want that, nothing else. In most cases I can add echo later through software. Any effects kill some of your treble, so you have to adjust tone accordingly if you use effects. If I need the overdrive pedal I can offset that by adjusting the tone knob on the pedal. And the Champ cranked to 10 with a good overdrive sounds killer...you won't know it's a 6 watt amp with a 8" speaker...

Condenser mic is a different story, I haven't used them much but put the mic about 2 to 3 feet in front of the amp and it catches the overall sound of the amp rather than having to mic really close with a traditional mic like the SM57. I like condenser mic really well for acoustic guitar.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#10
A few things that I have tried/want to try:

Use multiple mics for one cab. If you have a cab that has multiple and different speakers innit you can get different guitar tones from one recording. So you'd be recording the exact same part from both a V30 and G12, for example. Likewise, for a single speaker, you could set one mic for a bassier tone and another for a bit more treble. I think Guthrie often uses 3 mics on one speaker. Your 2i4 has two inputs, so you could get another SM or what Spambot suggested. This also goes along with the "Jimmy Page Trick".

Use the mic at an off-center position, but also at an angle. So rather than the mic being perpendicular to the amp grill, it is at a slight obtuse/acute angle. So you'll be at the frequency position of sorts that you want, but you can point the mic towards the other frequencies as well. Use the SM's pickup radius to your advantage c: However I would think that, considering the pickup radius, if you put too much an angle on the mic you'll loose core frequencies you have the mic placed at from perpendicular. Someone more experienced might be able to elaborate on this.

Use it at varying distances. I don't generally like placing my mic right at the grill, but rather a few inches away. With the mic right at the grill, you get a hard slap of the speaker frequencies at that position. And although the other frequencies of course bleed into that position, a mic a bit away might could pickup a fuller range sound. Generally I have my mic about 2 inches away, halfway between the diaphragm and the edge, slightly pointing to the diaphragm.
#11
What mic would you recommend for micing the back? I would like to look into it. What are the results?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#12
^ another SM57 will be fine.

It'll produce a very dark tone with opposite polarity to the front part of the speaker.
It only works good if you blend it together with something recorded from the front.
When you do that be sure to flip the polarity of one of the signals (the button with the barred 0).
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.