#1
I'm planning on getting a micro amp this summer because I'll be on the road for a while and I want to be able to play my electric. However, I primarily play in drop B and I hear that micro amps don't do very well at all with low tunings. Is there any particular micro amp that anyone can recommend to me that works well with low tunings?
#2
Are you sure you wouldn't rather have an amp modeling multifx with a looper, drum beats and headphones?
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#3
Two things you usually want with low tunings are a big power section (for a bunch of reasons, but in short to amplify the bass without wimping out) and a decent speaker. Micro amps are the antithesis of both of those things.

As mentioned above, you'll probably get better results from a modeler and headphones, because they at least attempt to emulate those larger amps digitally. Micro amps usually only have the goals of being cheap and making your guitar louder, and tend to sound bad even under the best circumstances. I'd expect total garbage with an extended range instrument.

Plus, again as mentioned above, you can have a lot of extra effects and practice tools available to you with a modeler or computer-based rig. Highly recommended!
#4
Honestly it sounds like an iPhone/iPad and iRig 2 with Positive Grid JamUp or Bias would be PERFECT for your situation!
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#5
Up for what lucky and Colin said - a modeler seems like what you want.

As for bias, it sounds quite uninspiring if you ask me.
Definitely interesting to design the bits of the amp, especially if you know what you're doing, but the resulting sound at the end leaves stuff to be desired.

Also since BV asked me to elaborate on that point last time...
Bias (the desktop version I've tried at least) was the flagship of what people call "a digital sound".

It added close to no harmonics when it was supposed to (slightly overdriven amp for example), it wasn't dynamic (both in the sense that it sounded pretty damn compressed even when playing through a clean amp and that the sound changed very little depending on how hard the input signal was) it didn't add any warmth by distortion and the distortion itself was quite harsh in any case.
When trying to remove the high end sizzle you either had to work with surgical EQ and make it sound half decent or with bias' EQ's and filters and make it sound like the speaker had a blanket in front of it.

And the amp matching feature is a gimmick - it's a simple EQ matching.
It's been around for years and it can work better than that.

Props to their marketing division for having had so much famous people make videos with it on youtube, and they maneged to make it sound fairly good with everything they did to the signal afterwards, but by itself bias is pretty moot.
Name's Luca.

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#6
Yep, drop B tuning and "micro amp" don't belong in the same sentence. You will be able to hear the 1st harmonic but most of the heavy fundamentals will be lost. A perfect case for a Pod or other DME.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

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Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#7
Quote by Spambot_2
Up for what lucky and Colin said - a modeler seems like what you want.

As for bias, it sounds quite uninspiring if you ask me.
Definitely interesting to design the bits of the amp, especially if you know what you're doing, but the resulting sound at the end leaves stuff to be desired.

Also since BV asked me to elaborate on that point last time...
Bias (the desktop version I've tried at least) was the flagship of what people call "a digital sound".

It added close to no harmonics when it was supposed to (slightly overdriven amp for example), it wasn't dynamic (both in the sense that it sounded pretty damn compressed even when playing through a clean amp and that the sound changed very little depending on how hard the input signal was) it didn't add any warmth by distortion and the distortion itself was quite harsh in any case.
When trying to remove the high end sizzle you either had to work with surgical EQ and make it sound half decent or with bias' EQ's and filters and make it sound like the speaker had a blanket in front of it.

And the amp matching feature is a gimmick - it's a simple EQ matching.
It's been around for years and it can work better than that.

Props to their marketing division for having had so much famous people make videos with it on youtube, and they maneged to make it sound fairly good with everything they did to the signal afterwards, but by itself bias is pretty moot.


This is not the experience I've had with the iOS version. I was actually quite surprised that it was as good as it is. Still not 'there' I don't think, but for what I use it for it's not critical. It's probably good enough for live use as well, as I think you would only notice the differences in studio.

I've not used the desktop version yet however, so perhaps it's not a direct comparison. What version of the desktop software were you using? (And what input?)

As an aside, your implication that the demo's are heavily post-processed is based on what, exactly?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#8
... the Micro's are not really even good for drop C let alone drop B
Last edited by Fumble fingers at Apr 27, 2015,
#9
Quote by Spambot_2

Props to their marketing division for having had so much famous people make videos with it on youtube, and they maneged to make it sound fairly good with everything they did to the signal afterwards, but by itself bias is pretty moot.


One of the first lessons they teach you in "Mixing and Mastering 101"; you cannot polish a turd. What kind of post-processing do you think these guys, I assume you mean people like Ola Englund, Keith Merrow, and Ryan Bruce did to Bias to make it sound "fairly good"?

And beyond that, lets assume that any amount of post processing COULD take a bad guitar tone and make "fairly good"; wouldn't it then logically conclude that every recording guitarist should just a Line 6 Spider and do post-processing? After all; they are just a recording artist, not playing live or anything, and its possible to fix that tone in post processing, right?

Even if he doesn't use Bias in particular, there are other great choices. EZMix 2 sounds fantastic, especially with the Metal Guitar Gods (2) expansion pack. The new Yamaha offering (thr10x) is a modeller capable of insanely brutal tones as well. A quote from Keith Merrow on this video just in case you wonder about things being done to the signal afterwards: "There's zero post processing on the reamp section after the the play through. That's direct recording via USB. The only processing on the play through is compression and limiting on the master bus."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACi3Pxshsl8
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#10
Quote by Arby911
I've not used the desktop version yet however, so perhaps it's not a direct comparison. What version of the desktop software were you using? (And what input?)
First public version of bias desktop, don't have any clue what version it was exactly.
I plugged my guitar into an m audio fast track pro usb.
Quote by Arby911
As an aside, your implication that the demo's are heavily post-processed is based on what, exactly?
On the fact that they managed to make bias sound pretty good.

When I downloaded the amp models made by these same people and tried playing them, modifying them a bit to make them sound appropriate with my guitar, the resulting sounds were still quite far.
Quote by BV-95
One of the first lessons they teach you in "Mixing and Mastering 101"; you cannot polish a turd.
Then your teacher wasn't good enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be9oMgWXC3g
Quote by BV-95
What kind of post-processing do you think these guys, I assume you mean people like Ola Englund, Keith Merrow, and Ryan Bruce did to Bias to make it sound "fairly good"?
Other processors before bias, EQ, compression, gating, verb...
Quote by BV-95
And beyond that, lets assume that any amount of post processing COULD take a bad guitar tone and make "fairly good"; wouldn't it then logically conclude that every recording guitarist should just a Line 6 Spider and do post-processing?
They may as well, but if one is using a spider he most likely isn't good enough to make it sound fairly good with post processing, and if one is good enough he most likely doesn't have a spider.

On top of that, most people want a sound that's better than fairly good.
Quote by BV-95
After all; they are just a recording artist, not playing live or anything, and its possible to fix that tone in post processing, right?
Up to a point, yes.

Though a better amp will potentially sound better and will be easier to work with to obtain a good tone, this is a matter of marketing more than anything else:
people at positive grid paid people to use their products and to make them sound good, so now there are people advocating how good bias sounds like there were people who were advocating how good marshall MG's sounded because of some old zack wylde advert by marshall.
Quote by BV-95
Even if he doesn't use Bias in particular, there are other great choices. EZMix 2 sounds fantastic, especially with the Metal Guitar Gods (2) expansion pack.
Yes there are other great choices indeed.

I don't like EZmix 'cause it offers no option to change a tone though, so unless you're lucky enough to have a setup that sounds good with it you'll not be able to make it sound good.
Quote by BV-95
The new Yamaha offering (thr10x) is a modeller capable of insanely brutal tones as well. A quote from Keith Merrow on this video just in case you wonder about things being done to the signal afterwards: "There's zero post processing on the reamp section after the the play through. That's direct recording via USB. The only processing on the play through is compression and limiting on the master bus."
I too believe everything I read on the internet.

...

No wait...


In any case that tone is nice, yes.
It also lacks a hell of a lot of high end and sounds pretty dry, particularly in the lower register.

If you like it then it means it's good enough for you, nothing wrong with that.

I though find some characteristics of bias making it no better than average.
Name's Luca.

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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#11
Quote by Spambot_2

On the fact that they managed to make bias sound pretty good.

When I downloaded the amp models made by these same people and tried playing them, modifying them a bit to make them sound appropriate with my guitar, the resulting sounds were still quite far.


Ok, just so we are on the same page what it seems to me that you are saying is "I couldn't make it sound good and they made it sound good thus they MUST have used post-processing"?

While I can follow that line of reasoning, surely you can see the flaws in it?

And your answer to the specific claim that they used no post-processing is that they are lying?

Hmmmm......
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Apr 28, 2015,
#12
Quote by Spambot_2

I too believe everything I read on the internet.

...

No wait...


Your claim that he is lying can be just as easily dismissed as his claim that he isn't doing any post-processing, you know that right?

Plus, what does he have to gain from "lying" about the yamaha amp?

Quote by Spambot_2

Other processors before bias, EQ, compression, gating, verb...


The video with the MG amp is to showcase that with proper mic placement technique and technical playing ability, a decent rhythm tone can be achieved with that amplifier.

I challenge you to make a video in which you take an absolutely abysmal recording tone and make it sound good with EQ, compression, gating, and reverb.

Here, use this tone:

https://soundcloud.com/the-full-black-ensemble/example-of-shitty-tone
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Last edited by BV-95 at Apr 28, 2015,
#13
FWIW, my buddy has Bias and I think it sounds pretty friggin good for what it is. Even the Marshall emulations (which tend to come short for me) I find were decent. I liked it better than stock AT3 without playing around with EQ stuff and Cabinets.


I think that Bias would probably sound great with awesome impulses.
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#14
Quote by Arby911
Ok, just so we are on the same page what it seems to me that you are saying is "I couldn't make it sound good and they made it sound good thus they MUST have used post-processing"?

While I can follow that line of reasoning, surely you can see the flaws in it?
Yes I understand what you mean

Though I based myself on the facts that I couldn't achieve a similar tone even using the patches they supposedly used (downloading them from the bias tone cloud), and most of all the fact that I was able to produce good (to me even better) tones using different software.
Quote by Arby911
And your answer to the specific claim that they used no post-processing is that they are lying?
They might as well.
Or in that case they might not, I can't know for sure.

I though pointed out what according to my taste are the flaws in their tone, which don't really change depending on whether they're using post processing or not.

To me, bias remains another story, mostly because of their marketing policy resembling that of blackstar - they claimed their "tone match" could match the tone of whatever amp close enough, a shit ton of people assumed and went around saying/writing on boards that the system worked like a kemper, which in reality there's nothing revolutionary or special about their tool.
They never made it clear that in reality it was a simple, average quality EQ matching software.

My skepticism, along with my experience with bias, is on top of everything what makes me think that there's something sketchy going on in these demo's as well.
Quote by BV-95
Your claim that he is lying can be just as easily dismissed as his claim that he isn't doing any post-processing, you know that right?
Yes.

See above.
Quote by BV-95
Plus, what does he have to gain from "lying" about the yamaha amp?
Same thing he might be gaining for making bias sound that good - money.

Again, with the yamy that seems less of a possibility because of yamy's reputation, and whether there's post processing or not in that audio doesn't really change anything about bias.
Quote by BV-95
The video with the MG amp is to showcase that with proper mic placement technique and technical playing ability, a decent rhythm tone can be achieved with that amplifier.
If you ask me it was just for the lolz
Quote by BV-95
I challenge you to make a video in which you take an absolutely abysmal recording tone and make it sound good with EQ, compression, gating, and reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/the-full-black-ensemble/example-of-shitty-tone
Easy enough.

I'll look into it when I have some time, so probably sometime during the next week.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
I highly highly highly doubt Yamaha or Positive Grid payed him to do those reviews. AT MOST, he got the product itself for free. He has said in other videos that his primarily income when it comes to music is doing services like re-amping.

And I look forward to see what you do with that tone PM me your email so I can send you the wav file of it.
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#16
Quote by BV-95
Your claim that he is lying can be just as easily dismissed as his claim that he isn't doing any post-processing, you know that right?

Plus, what does he have to gain from "lying" about the yamaha amp?


The video with the MG amp is to showcase that with proper mic placement technique and technical playing ability, a decent rhythm tone can be achieved with that amplifier.

I challenge you to make a video in which you take an absolutely abysmal recording tone and make it sound good with EQ, compression, gating, and reverb.

Here, use this tone:

https://soundcloud.com/the-full-black-ensemble/example-of-shitty-tone

Ha! That sounds exactly like pretty much any cheap mfx distortion! Kudos to you sir, you have accurate tastes of shitty tone, and I mean that as a compliment to the strength of your argument, lol.
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#17
Quote by lucky1978
Ha! That sounds exactly like pretty much any cheap mfx distortion! Kudos to you sir, you have accurate tastes of shitty tone, and I mean that as a compliment to the strength of your argument, lol.


its a DI track with a preset from the FL Studio plugin "Hardcore" slapped on it lol
Fender MIM Strat HSS (DiMarzio Crunch Lab)
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If you want, I can mix/master your tracks for free just so I can practice and who knows, maybe you'll love what you hear! Hit me up.
#19
The Zoom G3(G3X, G5) sounds great through headphones, built-in looper, drumbeats, dozens of useable fx, amp and cab models, usb, easy to use, durable, dirt cheap and it's better than nothing as defense against prowlers!
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