#1
I have read some stuff about people saying ESP E-II guitars are not up to the same quality as the old ESP Standards.

For me personally I couldn't really care much for finish mistakes or a bad setup.
I've always setup my guitars to my own taste so that's really not an issue.

But are the necks bad or something? I have a hard time believing a neck on a $1400 instrument would be BAD... I've played a few $100 guitars that was totally playable, with decent necks (even tho these ALWAYS have crappy fretwork and whatever)

I'm currently GASing quite a bit for this
#2
I've played an E-II Eclipse - 7, and a USA Standard Eclipse (both of them were last year's models), also a friend - of - a - friend's Custom Shop. Call me unappreciative, but to me, there wasn't any noticeable difference between the E-II and the USA Standard, but the Custom Shop didn't really fit me well (it was made to order specifically for someone else though, so that's that). I've never played a Japanese Standard though.

As far as what ESP say, the E-II line is meant to be the same quality as the old Japanese Standards, but with most components being mass - produced, such as the frets (still hand-filed), hence the lower price (I'd personally rather consistency over patchy quality), while the new Japanese Standards are pretty much 'standard - spec' guitars with Custom Shop quality. The USA Standards seems like a fad to me, made in order to appeal to a wider audience (i.e. patriotic Americans etc.).
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#3
Well, a bit of fretwork I can live with.

But yeah... I've played a couple of friends ESP Standards and Custom Shops that are EFFING AMAZING and I guess I would be dissapointed getting something that out of the box couldn't compare to those.

Constintency is important as you say!!
#4
If I am spending $1400 on a guitar there better not be one ding or scratch on the entire thing. If it was shipped to me it might be out of tune a bit but I won't be ordering a guitar from the equator so it better be set up properly before it leaves the factory.
#6
Quote by Wormholes
If I am spending $1400 on a guitar there better not be one ding or scratch on the entire thing. If it was shipped to me it might be out of tune a bit but I won't be ordering a guitar from the equator so it better be set up properly before it leaves the factory.



What's properly? Setup is subjective. I'm sure they'll ship something that's playable out of the box but there is no such thing as 'properly' in this context.
#7
Playable pretty much. If the truss rod needs agusting out of the box, frets filed/leveled, and even the high e string has fretbuzz, etc.
#8
I've got an E-II M-II that's very nice. It was set up perfectly and even in tune when I pulled it out of the box. The neck is perfect. For sound and feel, I would consider it on par with my Jackson Soloist. The E-II's are mass-produced, so you'd have to expect that there will be QC issues here and there. If you buy from a reputable vendor, you should have no issues returning the guitar if necessary. I'm very happy with mine.
#9
I have an E-II Eclipse and the neck and frets are very, very good on it. I haven't played a USA or MIJ ESP Standard to compare it to but it's a very nice guitar. Great sustain, you can feel the notes resonating throughout the body and neck.

I found a few minor finish blemishes on my headstock but I'm severely nitpicking it.

I should mention that mine is a custom so I don't know if there was any extra attention paid to it besides the graphics.

I agree with the advice above and purchase from a reputable dealer so you can return it if you are unsatisfied.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#10
I had a ESP Eclipse II and the frets weren't level. The guitar finish was perfect though. I sold it because in addition to the fret issue, I didn't like the locking tuners and the EMGs. I also have an ESP eclipse I. The frets aren't perfect but they are much better.
#11
Had a play on an EII Horizon 3 a couple of days ago, owned by my kids friend. Played it for an hour, absolutely perfect, I almost didn't give it back. If only it hadn't been purple.
My gastronomic rapacity knows no satiety.
#12
They only switched the name on the headstock. A business decision to help retain the prestige of the brand.

As always this will translate to people taking advantage of this to help increase the perceived value of their old ESP Standard Series. (I have one, and wouldn't mind if the second-hand value increased, but come on! It's identical to the E-II's in all but name.)
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#13
Quote by HomerSGR
They only switched the name on the headstock. A business decision to help retain the prestige of the brand.

As always this will translate to people taking advantage of this to help increase the perceived value of their old ESP Standard Series. (I have one, and wouldn't mind if the second-hand value increased, but come on! It's identical to the E-II's in all but name.)

Not quite true. While as I said, there isn't any noticeable difference to me, and while it's a 99% chance that the only motive behind this ‘change' was the percieved prestige from a business standpoint, it's no secret that E-IIs are mass produced (most models, most parts), whereas your Standard, and the new Standards (which can be crafted to better quality due to increased income from the new E-II series. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, though) are nothing but 100% handcrafted in Japan (well, every part that CAN be anyway, I'm no guitar builder).
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#14
They are literally the same guitars/quality with a stupid new name. that is it.

^ your 100% wrong the old Standards were mass produced like any higher-end guitars, far from custom shop. The E-II is now that same series, nothing different
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Apr 28, 2015,
#15
^ I never said Custom Shop. For example, I consider every Gibson above a Standard 'handcrafted', maybe I should've defined that. But seriously? Were all of ESP's 'handcrafted' claims back in the 2011 catalogs a lie? My love for the company is about to go 'down under'.
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#16
Handcrafted in the guitar business is and will always be a useless term. Every production model is made on an assembly line, mass produced. Sure, that includes some work done by machine, but there's still people building the guitars - thus enabling the term handcrafted to be thrown around in marketing. Even my old Epiphone said "Handcrafted in China". Handcrafted and mass produced isn't opposites in this regard, even though most people probably would agree the latter is a negative term.

Customshop can mean a smaller assembly line aside from the regular production with higher standards up to a guitar built by a single builder to order - but even that builder probably uses about the same tools as one working the assembly line so what does "handcrafted" mean?

It means nothing.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#17
^ Does that apply to amps too? Because if it does, I could've given some recommendations that were worse than what I thought.
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#18
Quote by 2Crosser
^ Does that apply to amps too? Because if it does, I could've given some recommendations that were worse than what I thought.

yes it does.

Bugera uses "handcrafted" to sell their amps and so do many others
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#19
^ Well f*ck. I'm one of them idiots who fell for marketing, then.
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#20
Quote by 2Crosser
^ Well f*ck. I'm one of them idiots who fell for marketing, then.

pretty much any decent amp or guitar has some degree of hands on work that must be done to it.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#21
Quote by Robbgnarly
pretty much any decent amp or guitar has some degree of hands on work that must be done to it.

Well no, I knew that much, but I may or may not have put forward some stuff falsely as ‘100% handmade'. Lesson learned.
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

Quote by Offworld92
This debate is exhausting to read.
The guitar world is drowned in fairy dust.
We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#22
Quote by Robbgnarly
pretty much any decent amp or guitar has some degree of hands on work that must be done to it.


You can scratch "decent". It speaks for itself really. You'd think they could manufacture things by machine as easily and cheaply in the US as in East Asia. It's the manual labour that's cheap in developing countries like Indonesia, Taiwan and India - and instruments are mostly about manual labour. All types of delicate woodwork is, as wood isn't exactly a homogenous material...
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.