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#1
Alright there m8s

The vast majority of you wont give a single shit about any of this but if I get at at least one or two people to check this out I'll be pretty happy.

Anyway, I've decided to translate and upload a good portion of Tomaž Pengov's work since I can't even find lyrics for most of his songs in Slovene, let alone English translations of said songs.

But Jam who the hell is this Peng Thomas guy?

I'm so glad you asked because this means you didn't close the thread after 'alright there m8s'. Tomaž Pengov was a Slovenian singer-songwriter who passed away in early 2014. He is considered one of the best slovene poet-musicians of the 20th century, he's a damn fine guitarist and lutist and his first album Odpotovanja (1973) is considered to be the first independently released record in former Yugoslavia.

And why the hell do you care about this shit?

The guy was not only a great musician but he's also a great poet, I don't really think there's any Slovene artist, living or dead, who can stand up to Pengov. But his material is very different from the catchy commercial music you hear on the radio. While he is very appreciated by various artistic and academic circles in Slovenia, he is a bit of a cult figure pretty much unknown to the Slovene public. In fact he is slowly falling into obscurity, being kept alive mostly by stuffy literature professors and old people. Of course I can easily show his albums to my friends to maybe spark a bit of interest but due to all of his lyrics being in Slovene I feel like the true weight of his work is a bit out of reach to foreigners.

How the hell are you gonna go about all of this?

Well I'm fairly confident that I know English well enough to produce rough translations of his work. Of course I'd appreciate some feedback on the shit I'll post but I'm not really counting on it. Lack of demand and what not.

I currently have in my possession the 1981 stereo reissue of Odpotovanja on vinyl, which includes the lyrics for all of the songs on that album. Given how it's arguably his greatest album I might as well start here.

I'll move on to the songs Črna Pega Čez Oči and Napisi Padajo since I have the single which features these two songs on vinyl as well, again along with the lyrics.

I'll see if I'll still be willing to do this shit once I'm down with these since I don't really have the lyrics to his other work. If I'll have the willpower to actually write down all of the lyrics for Rimska Cesta (1992) by ear and translate them to Slovene I'll also do that.

Also, I'll be focusing on translating it literally since doing the songs justice in 'poetic' English is above my current understanding of the language.

I'll post the translations here or on my profile or both. After I'm finished with stuff I have on vinyl I'll post the lyrics on appropriate sites.


I'm lazy, post some of his choons here.

Gladly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1II3fT6i1zc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqfIyyA-JP8

Since this is one of my favourite songs and I've already translated the lyrics for some mumu lads, here:

Generali

Hej, trgovci z ognjeno kugo,
vi ste vratarji zgodovine,
monarhi našega časa,
in sejalci večne tišine.

Preveč držite v svojih rokah,
da ne bi vsaka vaša kretnja,
črnih prtov ljudstvu tkala,
in vsako upanje v pekel prodala.

Med žive sanje srečnih korakov,
med željo in njeno resničnost,
pada vaša trda senca,
da vse pohabi v nepremičnost.

Hej, generali s temnimi očali,
poglejte svoja lačna ljudstva,
vsi vedo, kaj ste storili,
in v zemlji piše, kaj ste izdali.

Lastite si neko preteklost,
teptate vse, kar vam je tuje,
zanikate tuje svetove,
in vsak dan menjate stare bogove.

Vaš smeh so solze neštetih.
Med freske neznanih obrazov,
pišete svoja povelja,
in se oblačite v zastave porazov.

Vi ste sodniki svojega časa,
kdo drug kot čas lahko vam sodi,
le ranjena življenja mnogih,
ki so zaklenjena v vaši svobodi.


Generals

Hey, merchants with your plague of fire
You are the gatekeepers of history,
the monarchs of our time,
and the sowers of everlasting silence.

You hold too much in your grasp,
so your every gesture
weaves black cloths for the people
and sells every hope
into the depths of hell.

Between the vivid dreams of joyful steps,
between desire and its reality,
your rigid, dark shadow falls
and cripples everything into immobility.

Hey, generals with your dark sunglasses.
Gaze upon your starving nations.
They all know what you have done,
and in the earth it is written,
what you have betrayed.

You claim the past as your own
and trample everything that is foreign to you.
You deny other worlds
and everyday you replace old gods.

Your laughs are the tears of countless men.
Between the frescos of unknown faces,
you write your orders
and dress yourselves
with the flags of defeat.

You are the judges of our time,
and yet who else but time can judge you?
Only the countless destroyed lives,
that are locked inside your freedom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WynrA9JtDwI


Also, given how he is dead and how he never really seemed to care about commercial success that much, I think there's no harm in posting the download links to Odpotovanja here. If there's any interest, I can upload his other three albums on some file sharing site as well.

http://freebie.net.ua/viewtopic.php?t=51797

http://jugorockforever.blogspot.com/2013/03/tomaz-pengov-odpotovanja-1973.html


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 31, 2015,
#2
also lute & loot!

i did it! :-)




#3
, I don't really think there's any Slovene artist, living or dead, who can stand up to Pengov


#4
praise goran


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#5
I actually did listen to this guy after you mentioned him somewhere else, he has an interesting voice but his music doesn't really carry enough weight to have me listen to it if though I can't understand the words, unlike someone like Jacques Dutronc
#6
^Jacques Dutronc has the unfortunate disadvantage of being French

Nice thread, great stuff, will be listening to this guy more and checking in on any updates of this thread
#7
Quote by genghisgandhi
I actually did listen to this guy after you mentioned him somewhere else, he has an interesting voice but his music doesn't really carry enough weight to have me listen to it if though I can't understand the words, unlike someone like Jacques Dutronc

Yeah I can see that happening. Though I'm actually realising that starting with Odpotovanja when introducing him to foreigners might not be the best idea since it's the most lyrics-oriented. It's definitely the place to start with translation but I think the music from Pripovedi or Rimska Cesta might transfer better to Western audiences. It's more uplifting and melodic I suppose.



Note: The lyrics to Črna Pega Čez Oči (A black spot across the eyes) are from the poem of the same name by Fran Milčinski - Ježek.

edit: Glad you enjoyed it ulti


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 2, 2015,
#8
Cesta

Cesta - zavetje nemirnih ljudi,
izginja in skozi stopinje drsi,
ko odhaja in glasna obzorja rodi.

Tihe roke neštetih ur pijejo svet neznan,
prav tam,
na cesti med klasjem hitečih ljudi,
in živijo brezčasne trenutke glasov,
ko letijo po stezah stoletni sledi.

Sončna zarja je njihova sreča, ko sence budi,
in ujeti si vanje, ko cesta prižge jim luči,

in pogrne s tiho temo jim klopi,
zidove, parke in stebre dreves,
da zaspijo v sanje razbitih noči.

Večni tujci polnih naročij prijateljstva,
prav tam,
na cesti zagrnjeni s plaščem dežja,
brez odhodov, ker so povsod doma,
na cesti prebodeni z mečem sonca.

Morda iščejo več kot posmeha zaklenjenih glav,
morda iščejo tujo besedo odprtih noči,
polne dneve svobodnih trenutkov nemirnih poti,

ko visijo med kupi sprhnelih smeti,
in drvijo od mesta do mesta brez sna,
in izgubijo na tisoče srečanj vse dni.

The Road

The road - the shelter of restless men,
disappearing and sliding through footsteps,
as it leaves us behind,
and gives birth to deafening horizons.

The silent hands of countless hours are drinking a world unknown,
right there,
on the road, among the wheat of rushing men,
and they are living the timeless moments of voices,
as they fly above the paths of ancient tracks.

The Sun's dawn is their joy, as it awakens the shadows,
In which they are trapped as the road lights up their day.

With silent darkness it lays their benches,
their walls, parks and pillar-like trees,
so they fall asleep into the dreams of broken nights.

The everlasting strangers to full embraces of friendship,
right there,
on the road they are covered by a coat of rain,
without departures, they are at home everywhere,
on the road pierced by the Sun's mighty sword.

Perhaps they seek more than the ridicule from locked minds,
perhaps they seek the foreign word of eyes wide open,
perhaps they seek days full of joyful moments,
on the restless paths,

As they hang between piles of rotting trash,
and rush from town to town without rest,
and forever lose thousands of encounters of days gone and to come.


Note: I did my best to avoid using 'of' as much as possible but it still came up all the time. This and the weird way I pile on adjective after adjective in some verses is due to how Slovene and other Slavic languages function. Sorryif the sentences seem weird and broken but I don't really know a way around it. I think Cesta is the only song that makes use of this so much so I hope other songs wont be so problematic.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Apr 29, 2015,
#9
Quote by genghisgandhi

I almost dread quoting genghisgandhi because apparently I'm the worst person on UG and he's made it known several times so I think he's kind of lame, but yeah this picture. Can't stop the Dragon
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#10
I was already really enjoying Cesta, but that translation of the lyrics actually helps massively!
And I don't think the use of 'of' is in any way bothersome. I actually didn't notice it until you mentioned it.
#11
I dig what you're doing to try to keep interest in his music alive. I really liked Cesta but didn't care for the others posted here, but maybe I will check out the rest of the album.


Cool thread
#12
Thanks for the support and feedback, both of you. MeGaDeth, I don't want to push his music onto you but I actually felt the same way when I first listened to him and I really started to appreciate all of Odpotovanja only after a few listens. It may be a bit of an acquired taste for some

And btw 'odpotovanje' means 'departure', 'odpotovanja' means 'departures'. For added insight, odpotovanje stems from 'potovanje' which is 'journey' or the act of being on a journey, the opposite of 'odpotovanje' would be 'pripotovanje - I'm telling you this because while 'odpotovanje' can be used the same way as say 'airplane departure' or 'bus departure' it has a much less modern, more mystical connotation that would be similar to 'setting off on a journey'. Interestingly 'potovanje' and its indefinite verb form 'potovati' stem from the word 'pot' which means 'path' or 'road'.

If you'll read the rest of my translations of Odpotovanja you'll notice that the central motif of the album and Pengov's work in general is a certain type of solitary journey, seperate from society and civilization, made not to see new places but to exprience the world subjectively and at its core, devoid of human contact or interference.* The isolated relationship between man and world if you will.


* See the part of Cesta about the ridicule from locked minds. And the rest of the song but I think that verse expresses it with perfect clarity.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#13
sweet

also why the balls cant i find stari klovni on youtube this is bullcrap
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#16
Danaja

Mirno je v stolpu,
pod krilatim večerom čakanja,
le ona bedi in posluša,
ko veter preroško pozvanja,
in sanja.
Danaja, Danaja

Ptice so tihe,
in konji bežijo v ravnino.
Že to noč bo dež na oboku,
puščica napetemu loku,
in harfa zvoku.
Danaja, Danaja.

Zjutraj jo bratje,
odgrnejo slepo in spečo,
z nevidno toplino ob strani,
in drobno kapljo na dlani,
hlapečo.
Danaja, Danaja.


Danaja

It is peaceful in the tower,
under the winged waiting dusk,
only she lays awake and listens,
as the wind prophetically beckons,
and dreams.
Danaja, Danaja.

The birds make no sound,
the horses fleeing into the plains.
Tonight the rain upon the arch,
will be the arrow to a drawn bow
and the harp to sound itself.
Danaja, Danaja.

In the morning her brothers,
uncover her blinded with slumber,
with an invisible warmth by her side,
and a tiny drop in her palm,
slowly turning to vapour.
Danaja, Danaja.


Note: While the name Danaja isn't really common at all in Slovenia, I actually know at least two women with this name, both of which named after this song.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#17
V nasmehu nekega dneva

V nasmehu nekega dneva,
stopiš na svoje križišče,
in streseš pesek iz popotnih čevljev.
Nekdo te vpraša kam hočeš,
ti skriješ utrujene noge,
in poveš,
da si bil tam.

Prijatelji ti odpirajo okna,
in ne veš koga si ranil.
Tvoja roka nikoli ni prazna,
karkoli si storil,
v nasmehu nekega dneva,
si prinesel,
prinesel s seboj.

Med glasbo in njeno tišino,
med senco in njenim telesom,
med žensko in njeno lahko stopinjo,
čutiš pot med besedo in molkom,
in zemlja na katero si stopil,
ti je vzela del potovanja
Ko se vrneš,
si sam.

Ptice so zaprle poletje,
in dež je ustavil ceste.
Nad praznim vrčem prsti napnejo strune,
in spomin ti verjame.
V tišini pretrgaš zaveso,
in stopiš,
pred drevo, ki si ga posadil,
v nasmehu nekega dneva,
da odlomiš vejo,
za na pot.


In the smile of someday

In the smile of someday,
you set foot upon your crossroad,
and shake the sand from your traveling boots.
Somebody asks you where you wish to go,
you hide your tired legs,
and tell them,
you have been there.

Friends open their windows to you,
and you know not who you have wounded.
Your hand never empty,
and whatever you have done,
in the smile of someday,
you have brought,
brought with yourself.

Between music and its silence,
between a shadow and its body,
between a woman and her light footprint,
you feel the path between word and silence,
and the ground on which you tread,
has taken from you a part of your journey,
when you return,
you are alone.

The birds have brought summer to end,
and rain has halted all roads,
Above an empty jug your fingers draw the strings,
your memory believes you.
You tear apart the curtain in silence,
and step,
before the very tree you have planted,
and break off a branch,
for your journey.



Note: Quite a few words in this one that have hard to find appropriate equivalents in English, two of which stand out to me. The first is 'between word and silence' - silence comes from the word 'molk', not 'tišina'. Molk is a used specifically for silence due to the absence of speech. The second is 'your fingers draw the strings' - in the same way one would draw ('napeti') a bow string but the strings in this case are specifically instrument strings ('strune').


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#18
bare peng
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#21
no loitering


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#22
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Note: Quite a few words in this one that have hard to find appropriate equivalents in English, two of which stand out to me. The first is 'between word and silence' - silence comes from the word 'molk', not 'tišina'. Molk is a used specifically for silence due to the absence of speech. The second is 'your fingers draw the strings' - in the same way one would draw ('napeti') a bow string but the strings in this case are specifically instrument strings ('strune').

I like these notes, because they describe exactly what I like about translation

Just out of curiosity, do people actively differentiate between molk and tišina, or is it one of those cases where molk would be more correct but tišina would fit the purpose as well (maybe as hyperonym)? If so, is one of the words slowly becoming used less and less?

For example, we have 'stilte' and words like 'zwijgzaamheid' in Dutch, where 'stilte' is just silence in general, and 'zwijgzaamheid' means a silence because no one's saying anything. The latter you will pretty much never hear though, unless you're a 70 year old writer or are actively going for a sort of pompous style (or perhaps if you're Flemish).
#23
The best answer I can give you is, it's complicated. Slovene is an incredibly diverse language where some of its dialects aren't even understandable to anyone but their native speakers. It has a standardized form to fix this of course but nobody uses it except in formal settings like on national TV or in written form. Furthermore, even if you live in a region with a very understandable dialect you probably speak a very bastardized version of Slovene which is very different to anything you learn at school. It goes way beyond what you see in spoken English for instance, as opposed to 'book' English. You change the pronounciation of most words, use incorrect words and word forms like say the wrong gramatical number or the wrong case, you leave out letters or even entire parts of certain words, you make up your own words, etc.

As for 'molk' itself I don't hear it used often. It's not that weird to use it but still not completely normal. Not really because it's a pretentious word or anything, it's just a bit too 'correct' for everyday use. Tišina is much more common. I'd say you nailed it with this.

or is it one of those cases where molk would be more correct but tišina would fit the purpose as well (maybe as hyperonym)?


But again this is in spoken, bastardized Slovene. I think that 'molk' still comes up fairly often in formal Slovene, like on national TV and radio. But it's hard to say if it's being used less and less because formal Slovene is pretty much an artifical language that was cobbled together from certain dialects with historical importance. There was never a point in history when spoken and formal Slovene were the same thing or even similar.

Relevant videos which explain some of this. It's from some dude's radio show, mostly in English.



To prove the guy's point, I've been living here all of my life and I have no clue what any of the people speaking in dialects were saying. I understand Croatian and Serbian better than I understand those clips and I've never had a single lesson in either.



Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 2, 2015,
#24
Cool, thanks! Didn't know there were so many distinct dialects. We have those around here as well, but only a handful of dialects would be incomprehensible to other Dutch people, and everyone does speak the same language apart form those dialects (except maybe really old people who never get outside their village and have pretty much forgotten how to speak standard Dutch).

Is the massive distinction the same among youth as it is among older people? Because I could imagine there being increasingly more overlap among dialects due to exposure to internet and whatnot.

I'm going to scrap Slovene from my list of languages I might try learning at some point btw
#25
Yeah, traditional dialects are becoming more and more assimilated and used less and less. Since we have a state-owned university in Ljubljana which is hands down the best in the country and pretty much free, you have a city with a dialect which was used as the base for formal Slovene and with a vey high student population - during school season it actually looks like the city is 90% students when you're walking through the city centre . There's students from all over the country who mask their accents with a bit more standardized version of Slovene and who have a tendency to rely hevily on slang, words that occur in all dialects and loan words from English, German, Italian, French and Serbo-Croatian.

It's like a language melting pot which is producing a weird mix of formal Slovene, mutually understandable dialects and foreign languages. Incidentally I come from a town with a more or less dead dialect because we're located so close to Ljubljana.

The outcome is something that's actually fairly different from formal Slovene but generic enough to be widely understood by youths. It's sometimes hard to understand for some old people because in their time they either spoke in dialects when they were at home or a very formal form of Slovene when being understood was the main goal. Also they were exposed to English much less than us which is a bit of a problem because English is so dominant in this modern version of Slovene slang.

And yeah learning Slovene is a bitch. Formal Slovene is still very useful for the media, newspapers, the internet and literature but it's an absolute pain in the ass to learn.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 1, 2015,
#26
Also, it has to be said that the guy is making the situation seem much more extreme than it actually is. It's not really true that you can go to the neighbouring village and not understand anything. To the other part of the country, yes because the dialects form a continuum of sorts. And most of all, there's this sort of subconscious thing where speakers always adjust their Slovene a bit according to who they're speaking to. Say I'm talking to a friend from the other part of the country and we'll be speaking a much more formal form of the language but then his buddy from the same town comes along. When speaking to each other they'll suddenly start speaking with a very heavy dialect. It's not like I meet Slovenes I can't understand everyday. In fact usually I'll meet them outside of their home village or town so they'll automatically be speaking more formally because they'll be in an environment that requires them to do so, so there won't be any awkward moment where we both speak in our own dialect and figure out we don't understand each other. Plus the longer you live here and the more people you meat, you slowly start to understand more and more dialects even if you can't form sentences in those dialects.

Strange thing is, Slavic languages in these parts form the same kind of continuum where the lines between certain languages are somewhat blurred if you're in the right area. Eastern Slovene like the dialect from Prekmurje which was mentioned in the video, is very similar to the Slovak and Czech languages. Southern Slovene, spoken close to the Croatian border is of course very similar to Croatian and to be perfectly honest I can't even tell Croatian and Serbian apart most of the time.

It only becomes a problem when you're trying to understand Bulgarian or Macedonian which originate from Old Church Slavonic, meaning they're part of the Eastern subgroup of South Slavic languages while Slovene, Serbian and Croatian are Western South Slavic languages.

edit: 'Eastern Slovene' and 'Southern Slovene' are words I made up. I'd have to refer to the specific dialect groups but I really cba to look them up. Also I heard Bulgarians and Macedonians understand Russians, Ukrainians and Belorussians very well while those languages seem the most different to Slovene. Polish is just this weird ass freak language which I can't understand at all and to me it doesn't seem similar to any other Slavic language. But what do I know, maybe Russians understand them.

edit:

Fvcking knew it, Polish is some weird freak of nature. Also Slovene all lonely down there with no bro-languages. ;-;

edit:

Yeah, that arrow between Old Church Slavonic and Russian makes sense. And again, confirming that Polish is some weird Frankenstein language.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 1, 2015,
#28
Wow, this shit got out of hand fast. Also no hard feeling to any Poles out there, but your language really just makes my brain go numb.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 1, 2015,
#29
The subtle transition between dialects is incredibly interesting.

Not really relevant to the thread, but as I always find it fun to see similarities between languages that don't really relate, I'll give some background on Dutch. Please ignore and go on with the original purpose of the thread


I'm going to assume that person 1 has the dialects that is most like "standard" Dutch. Everyone in the Netherlands can understand person 1. I'm going to ignore person 2 for now because they have a dialect I don't know anything about. Person 8 is also getting ignored because they had to go and invent an actual language (Frisian) that no one understands. I'm also going to assume everyone from a certain region is speaking in only their specific dialect, whereas in reality practically everyone can speak like person 1.

Person 3 (which is where I'm originally from) has a dialect that's arguably the most separate from person 1's dialect. Person 1 will not understand much, if anything from what Person 3 says, unless they know some German, which is what the dialect most resembles. A German person from region 9 will be able to understand person 3 pretty well, even though no one else in Germany will. The same goes for person 6 and the German from region 10.

Person 4 and 5 form gradual transitions between person 1 and 3, but also between person 6 and 1 (and more or less between 7 and 1 as well). And while the dialects of 6 and 3 for example are very different, person 3 will more easily understand person 6 because both dialects share similarities with German.

Note 1: A lot of transitions are being ignored here. There are transitions into Belgian dialects from person 2, 3, 4 and 5. There also transitions that go all the way through Germany, as far as Denmark, for person 6 and 7.

Note 2:I'm also leaving out a lot of separate dialects that gradually transition within each region. For example, the dialect on the east side of region 3 can be very difficult to follow for someone from the west side of region 3)


Btw, I wouldn't be surprised if Polish isn't even a language. They just made up something incomprehensible so other people can't understand a thing they're saying while they're doing all that cheap labour and driving trucks and stuff.
No offence to the Polish though. I work with some of them on a daily basis and they're much more fun to work with than the British, Americans and Indians I work with combined (****ing Indians...)
#30
Interesting, our languages may have more in common in terms of dialects than I thought. Is Frisian officially its own language or is it some weird subgroup of Dutch (would check myself but my phone is butts)?

Also I never know the Netherlands have a population of somwhere around 10 - 12 people. Explains why I've met so few Dutch people in person.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#31
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Wow, this shit got out of hand fast.

I did read it all and you know I've heard some of these "How to become a Slovene" videos before, and you also know that I endorse the posting of huge walls of text about languages. So

Portuguese (as far as Portugal proper is concerned) is actually pretty uninteresting in terms of dialects, it doesn't really go past accent differences. There's one little bit in the North near the border with Spain that has a language of its own, but I don't think it's usually people's first language. There's also Galician, which is spoken alongside Spanish in the Spanish region of Galicia and is considered (though not unanimously) a dialect of Portuguese. The Portuguese borders haven't changed much since the 13th century so maybe that's why the language is that uniform throughout.
#32
oh man, linguistic overload
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#33
Tom I said no loiterng, you have to say something about how 'u havin a giggle m8' is used across the UK or some shit. And yeah, I figured that's what Portugese is like Franc. With all your fancy kingdoms and politically stable countries.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#34
Politically stable countries are the worst

But yeah, Frisian is recognised as its own language. Surprisingly, it's closer to English and Scots than it is to Dutch.
#35
The back of the Odpotovanja record sleeve. I hope you can see all the lyrics clearly because I scaled the image down quite a bit. The original is 3000x3000 pixels large because I took it with a scanner. You can kinda see where I cropped the two images together because the entire sleeve doesn't fit in my scanner at once.



Also I noticed a type in the first line of 'Čakajoč nase brat' where it says 'golgoti' instead of 'goloti'.

edit: Not a typo apparently. Golgota is the Slovene word for Calvary.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 18, 2015,
#36
Lock thread
Reason: Linguistics
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#37
suck me off

And the front of the sleeve which is exactly like the front of the actual cover, except without the glossy finish due to the material used. I did a pretty crappy job scanning it as you can clearly see, but I think it should do for now.



Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#38
Potovanje nespečih

Šli so tiho brez zvona,
lažni angeli sreče,
polni blata na dnu srca,
in kot norci goreče,
so odvrgli imena,
in uničili pot nazaj.

Šli so proti obalam poletja,
proti skritim stezam in rekam,
proti krajem neznanega cvetja,
in nejasnim zaprekam.
Ob trudnih večerih,
so seštevali plen spoznanja.

Sneli so zavese zavesti,
odprli okna proti soncu,
se napili svetlobe do bolesti,
in zdrveli proti koncu.
Bili so prazne harfe,
in veter jih ni zaigral.

Pisali so na čela sten,
igrali klovne za hrano.
Ujeti v ostrem kriku siren,
so spoznali že znano.
Čas jim je bil vse imetje,
zamenjali so ga za suho cvetje.


Journey of the sleepless

They left quietly and without a sound,
the false angels of happiness,
their hearts full of mud,
and like madmen of burning passion,
they threw away their names,
and destroyed the way back.

They went towards the beaches of summer,
towards the hidden paths and rivers,
towards the lands of unknown flowers,
and towards obstacles unknown.
During tired evenings,
they counted the bounty of realisation.

They took off the curtains of consciousness,
opened their windows towards the Sun,
drank the light until they fell ill,
and raced towards the end.
They were hollow harps,
and the wind did not play on them.

They wrote upon the faces of walls,
played clowns for food.
Trapped in the sharp cries of sirens,
they realised what has already been known.
Time was all of their possessions,
and they traded it for dried flowers.



Note: I'm not sure what exactly he meant with 'kot norci goreče' and I can't really translate it literally so I just put in 'madmen of burning passion' because it's closest to how interpret it. It says "they threw away their names 'burningly'" but that's not a word in English. I hate that I have to translate 'cvetje' to 'flowers' and 'imetje' to 'possessions', very much like 'klasje' to 'wheat' from one of the previous songs. In all three cases the noun has no singular form, like 'scissors' (in Slovene it's 'škarje' - notice any patterns?) and in both 'cvetje' and 'klasje' it's used to name just the top of the plant, like 'tree-tops'. It really has a special kind of esthetic that is completely lost with translation. These are the examples that bother me the most, there are a few other, less problematic ones but I don't think I'll gain much if I go into the details.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 3, 2015,
#39
So I've been thinking why klasje, cvetje and imetje are so aesthetically pleasing words to me, and I think I've figured it out. First I noticed that all three words sound old in origin as in they sound like those 'elementary' Slavic words that are very similar across all the languages in said group. Kind of how you get certain English words like 'war' that seem very old. I don't know, maybe it's just me, doesn't really matter. So what do these words have in common, that might give them these 'vibes'. Well, it's pretty obvious.

klasje
cvetje
imetje

So how could this 'je' give the words this connotation? Well, it also pops up in words like:
'petje' - 'singing'
'kričanje' - 'screaming'
'plesanje' - 'dancing'
'žvrgolenje' - 'bird singing'

and also:
'znanje' - knowledge, which comes from 'znati' - 'to know'
'upanje' - hope, which comes 'upati' - 'to hope'
'slavje' - celebration, which comesfrom 'slaviti' - 'to celebrate'

All of these words are either verbs or come from verbs, specifically ones that are inherently human actions. They are not that which is happening, but that which is being done by someone.

Cvetje sounds like a weird way of saying 'that which is flowered' and imetje is basically 'that which is owned'. 'Klasje' unfortunately doesn't have any related verbs which I know of, ut the effect on the connotation is the same.

I don't know if it's a universal effect culturally but I think you'd agree 'that which is known' instead of 'knowledge' sounds kinda badass in an ancient, epic kind of way. Well, imagine that but in Slovene.

Great success.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 2, 2015,
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