#1
So while listening to mixes on here i find a lot of high quality recordings, youtube as well, everyone but me seems so...professional...

Im not looking to get rich or famous, i just like recording and sharing among friends and family.

My computer has an i7 3770k at 4.0 ghz 16 gig ram and an ssd.
onboard sound card at the moment, i just purchased a sound blaser zx
i have decent quality headphones ( better ones on the way, sennheiser 598)
my guitars are ibanez rg220b with emg active pickups and an ibanez rg8 stock pups.
i record through a boss gt-100 into reaper through usb..

The only gear I've read about that i feel im missing that i know of, is a dedicated audio interface.. Obviously the boss has one built in, but would i get better recorded sound via the ever popular focusrite 2i2? is it my gear? is it my mastering skills? i gave this recording a listen in my car...it sounds very...compressed but, but it sounds okay on my logitech g930s a 7.1 emulated surround sound headset.. What gives?

EDIT: forgot to link the sound clip
http://www.filedropper.com/fail_1
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
Last edited by r34l1ty at May 4, 2015,
#2
what are you using to get your tone ? the boss GT100 ? or plugins in reaper ?

In my opinion some eq-ing would fix the tone ... i'm not really good at this though

your gear is more than enough to get good quality recordings.

I myself use VST amplifier simulators in REAPER , the only hardware i have is a $100 locally-made guitar and a $1 3.5-mm-to-1/4th-inch adaptor jack to record directly to my PC which has a super cheap VIA HD Audio Deck soundcard . I get results decent enough to please myself.

( click here for reference )

you can do really good with your current equipment , just find out how to get the most from it
Last edited by NRG_sama_ at May 4, 2015,
#3
im using the boss to get my tone. as far as eq goes i used reapers eq preset called mud-free or whatever. it cleaned it up a little, but i still feel my guitar doesnt sound...remotely professional... It sounds exactly like it is..which is just a kid in his bedroom.

Like i said, this is all just a hobby, but i still feel im missing something.. You dont think a proper audio interface is it? would it even help?

i tired using the secondary (raw) signal into reaper to try the demo of BIAS (amp simp vst) but there was too much delay after running through the sound card and monitoring back on my headphones... ill check when i get my new one.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#4
hey i'm a kid in a bedroom too :p

a proper audio interface would be useful if you were to record an actual amplifier. since you get your tone from the boss , there's no need of an interface. what settings are you using on the gt100 ?

and for the delay , do you use ASIO or ASIO4ALL sound drivers ?

also could you send me the left right and drum tracks separately ? i could try to mix them and if i get a good result i'd explain you how i did it

EDIT- oh and also , a metal tone does not sound really good until you add the bass guitar to it. maybe that's the case here.. if it is so you could either find a real bassist , or buy the awesome (and costly) "trilian" VST plugin , or download the free "4front bass" vst plugin. I hope you know how to work with MIDI files in reaper

EDIT 2 - and also , if you manage to fix the delay using ASIO drivers , there are a whole lot of virtual amplifiers (other than BIAS) and cabinet simulators you could use to get a good tone
Last edited by NRG_sama_ at May 4, 2015,
#5
I found a collection of tones for the boss gt-100 that i had to buy so i dont think i can upload the patch willy nilly. but as far as settings go, its your typical studio line/phone output selection, input set to -3, global eq set from low to high -2db -1db with mid frequency being 1.25kHz and 0db high.

the drivers built in are asio based, but not asio4all, and the pedal didnt exactly like when i switched them in reaper, not sure about another daw.

The drums however came from a youtube channel, i dont have the stuido mix unfortunately..thats a bummer.

If this really is my recorded tone, ill take this boss back, and just go virtual.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#6
oh well I don't really have much experience with boss processors .

You could get a decent sound by going full virtual

The problem is , if you ever plan to perform live , you'd be in trouble

For now , stick to the raw input from the boss , try to tweak the audio driver settings (buffer size and all) so that you get rid of the delay.

once you are done with that , search on youtube for tutorials on how to get metal tones with freeware VST plugins

there are tons of tutorials out there. once you get the basics down , start experimenting and you'll get great tones in no time

i'd have given you step-by-step instructions but i'm kinda busy at the moment

I hope i was of help
#7
Fully virtual is fine, i have no dreams of playing live.. although it would be cool, it just isnt realistic for me. if im going to bypass my boss, id rather just take the dang thing back and get my 500 +120 dollar warranty refunded, buy an audio interface and the professional edition of bias or revalver, all for about 300 dollars cheaper too.


edit: you were very helpful, thank you. I thought at first my tone may be lacking due to missing "essential" studio hardware.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
Last edited by r34l1ty at May 4, 2015,
#8
http://www.filedropper.com/untitled_35

Bypassing the boss straight into reaper/BIAS no post mixing, or EQ.. just raw tone...sounds like garbage.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#9
you just need to eq the bass end down and it'll sound fine when you stick it in a mix. it's not a bad tone at all , IMO it's better than the previous one

oh and do not turn the mids down on the amp. a guitar tone with mids lowered is hard to stick in a mix correctly.

and yeah if you have the option of returning the boss , do so and get a mackie onyx blackjack or a focusrite scarlett 2i4 . don't worry about paid ampsims for now , stick to the free ones , and once you get the basics of mixing and how to dial in a decent tone , move on to the paid ones

I'm glad if i was of help
Last edited by NRG_sama_ at May 4, 2015,
#10
The Boss has everything you need, just have to dial it in.
There is a way to go direct while you're tracking with effects, and then reamp so you can retweak your sounds.
Fig. 4 the masterfx chain should let you put in the USB first. This is GT-10 but the concept is the same:
http://www.houstonmusicreviews.com/GearReview/BossGT10/bossgt10.htm

The GT-100 now sells patches? You mean the $600 sticker price ain't enough? Ugh....

I think you might need more practice recording and mixing, nothing wrong with the gear.
If you want to post raw files we can take a whack at remixing for you.

Read up few books, Ermin Hamidovich (sp?) Mixing manual is great, very concise and to the point:

http://www.systematicproductions.com/mixing-guide.htm
Last edited by diabolical at May 4, 2015,
#11
Your gear should be perfectly fine for a decent sounding mix. I'm unable to listen to the song that you linked to right now so I'm not sure about specifics as to what's wrong, but I'll give you a few tips that helped me when I was getting into recording.

1. Double track the rhythm guitars. Pan one hard left and the other hard right to get a much fuller sounding mix.
2. Don't use a lot of distortion on the rhythm guitars. I can't stress this enough! Most of the time, the reason a tone sounds good when just played but bad when recorded is because there is way too much gain, making it sound fizzy. Since the guitars are double tracked, you can use a lot less distortion and still get a nice, heavy sound.
3. Study up on EQing distorted guitars. This will also help the final tone a lot and proper EQing will bring a lot more clarity to your tone. As a start, high pass around 80-100Hz and cut out some of the high end above 10-12kHz.
4. Bass guitar is important. In many professional recordings, a lot of the low end of the guitar tone is actually coming from the bass guitar. If you can't afford an actual bass (like me), recording your guitar, pitch shifting it down an octave, running it through a good bass amp sim, and EQing and compressing it should give a passable tone. It won't be great, but it'll be decent for a bedroom recording.

Anyways, I think that's about all I have. I'm not sure how much of this applies to you since I can't listen to your recording, but I hope some of it helps! Above all, use the resources online. There's a ton of info on recording and mixing, so read all that you can. Good luck
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#12
Quote by --{matt}--
1. Double track the rhythm guitars. Pan one hard left and the other hard right to get a much fuller sounding mix.
2. Don't use a lot of distortion on the rhythm guitars. I can't stress this enough! Most of the time, the reason a tone sounds good when just played but bad when recorded is because there is way too much gain, making it sound fizzy. Since the guitars are double tracked, you can use a lot less distortion and still get a nice, heavy sound.
3. Study up on EQing distorted guitars. This will also help the final tone a lot and proper EQing will bring a lot more clarity to your tone. As a start, high pass around 80-100Hz and cut out some of the high end above 10-12kHz.
4. Bass guitar is important. In many professional recordings, a lot of the low end of the guitar tone is actually coming from the bass guitar. If you can't afford an actual bass (like me), recording your guitar, pitch shifting it down an octave, running it through a good bass amp sim, and EQing and compressing it should give a passable tone. It won't be great, but it'll be decent for a bedroom recording.


100% agree with all of the above, although it's always better to have an actual bass
I'm a big advocate for the 'less is more' thing for rhythm guitar gain.

On this track (which I always link to... always...) the gain for the rhythm guitars wasn't above 4ish. The double tracking brings it to life and the bass does the rest. The Bass is also 'parallel distorted' meaning that there's a mix of dry and distorted signal in there. What this does is keeps the bass sound clear while also thickening up the rhythm distortion.

Also, on this one I turned the gain up a little more but recorded with the bridge humbucker coil split meaning that the tone is overall more transparent. The bass distortion also plays a part.

In general as Matt said, cut below 80-100Hz and above 13ishKhz and that'll help a lot.
#13
Alright, wicked guys, thank you very much, as for double tracking guitars, i have been doing that, and practicing the lining of two different tracks. As far as a bass goes, i own one now, so its a new skill i have to learn, on top of mixing and mastering. Ill definitely check out that book you linked.. thank you all so much.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#14
Alright so, ive officially made my decision with everyones help. My boss is definitely going back to the store. Im going virtual. However, after going through the sticky, I now cannot decide between amplitube 3 and bias desktop... I really love the trial i have of the engl powerball, however, everyone on youtube gets wicked tones from bias.

Whats the general consensus on bias? on amplitube 3? I dont want to pass judgement myself as i have the most basic options available as a free trial of bias, and i also feel that amplitube is more... gimmicky, and not meant for "professional" sound. Anyone use amplitube for their recordings?
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#15
Quote by r34l1ty
Alright so, ive officially made my decision with everyones help. My boss is definitely going back to the store. Im going virtual. However, after going through the sticky, I now cannot decide between amplitube 3 and bias desktop... I really love the trial i have of the engl powerball, however, everyone on youtube gets wicked tones from bias.

Whats the general consensus on bias? on amplitube 3? I dont want to pass judgement myself as i have the most basic options available as a free trial of bias, and i also feel that amplitube is more... gimmicky, and not meant for "professional" sound. Anyone use amplitube for their recordings?



amplitube 3 is free now as far as i know. and yeah , amplitube is not meant for metal as such. the cabinets are not really good. bias is better , definitely

why are you not trying out the free ones ? lepou stuff ? he has great free amp sims....
#16
They give you few free things as a sample Amplitube 3. Why say its not for metal? They specifically have the metal edition.
I honestly haven't heard Bias, there used to be Mac software by that name Bias Deck, but I'm sure it his not that.
To get good at modelers you need to spend a long time dialing in eqs, gain, response, etc, regardless of brand.
#17
Quote by diabolical
They give you few free things as a sample Amplitube 3. Why say its not for metal? They specifically have the metal edition.


i couldnt get usable metal tones...they sounded too artificial-y compared to the lepou ones i use...but that might be because i'm not too good at dialing them in or some other reason

and you should check out bias sometime , it's pretty cool

https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-desktop/
#18
As far as the recording community goes Amplitube is a lot more popular than Bias...not to say that it is wrong to go with the other. Whatever rocks your boat.

OP - did you look at some of the patches for the Boss? There are bunch of Youtube dudes that do really well with these units and provide patches for them as well.

The way I see it, unless you drop your Boss modeler 2 years from now it will still work fine. I can't say that for any of the plugins that I've paid for. I should actually in this case say "borrow" as software vendors pretty much treat their clients that way. Just be aware that it is an endless upgrade cycle.
#19
Well its been a few days. And I could not help myself.. I now have bias professional and amplitube. hah. Stupid choices. As far as amplitube metal is concerned, they recently released an ENGL powerball amp with the respective cab.. Its incredible.. Heres a little track...lead tone is amplitube. chug is bias. Drums are east west goliath / ministry of rock. mix is still horrid but ive learned how to make it loud ( loud is better .....if its loud enough someone will like it. right? haha.

Thanks again everyone

http://www.filedropper.com/closetgoathanging


As far as the free vst's go i did use the ones listed in the recording sticky. They were all pretty solid, especially after a free recab was added! I was able to produce a few good tones after a couple of minutes ( hours) but i wanted...more? I guess im cursed from multi-fx pedals. a bunch of bad tones is better than one good one ( sigh ).... However im very happy with amplitube for both effects and amps, but it was a necessary evil as I dont have an I-device to fully utilize jamup with bias.... i was heart broken.


BOSS patches: Yeah I looked at a few, and they were pretty solid, but I just felt it didnt have what i needed for a single 500 dollar device... i decided a focusrite scarlett solo (100$) and bias (179) was the better choice for me... plus the 40 or so dollar purchase added on to amplitube for that engl amp.
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
Last edited by r34l1ty at May 10, 2015,
#20
ALLLRIGHTY! so after a few months of practice and a lot of money spent on virtual stuff ( bias amplitube T-RACKS) a focusrite solo and mixing books... here is fiddling progress....

http://www.filedropper.com/69bitterbananas

What do you guys feel is missing? besides a master for volume and clarity in the guitar recordings
Quote by Rust_in_Peace34


....Also, the Death cover of Painkiller and Silence Calls the Storm by Quo Vadis allow me to pour bricks from my anus.
#21
Personally I would get a small 4 - 6 channel mixer, mic up and record in a DAW such as pro tools. That's just me however, I like it better to mic an amp to attain natural reverbs and a nicer recording through a decent mic than to go direct in.

I would at least go from the GT100 to something like a Mackie Pro FX 12 direct in, that way you have pre-mix EQs and stuff to fiddle with as well, and then into the PC via USB.

When I'm tracking guitars I have a mic'd amp through my mixer and into the PC via USB with yorkville monitors. My mixer is that PRo FX 12 and it has simplified channel strips that allow for EQing, Low cuts and it can send out to FX racks if you want.

As for doubling your rhythm tracks, these guys are right about distortion and what not. Too much distortion is creating a lot more noise in your tracks and can muddy up your mix.

As for mixing, a little (semi) pro tip, when you mix in stereo, make sure to check it in mono as well. I use a little Baritone mono speaker for this to test out the mix before mastering my tracks.
Last edited by robertphillips2 at Jul 6, 2015,
#22
If you have posted to soundcloud or something where I could play the file directly, rather than download it, I would have given it a listen.
#23
LIstened to "Bananas".

Guitars sound thick and juicy which I like. The balances on the whole thing seem off though, drums are too low, guitars too high in level in the mix, also can't hear the bass much.
Also maybe add a sense of common space via bussing all tracks to a reverb buss and mix in a little verb to taste.
#24
Definitely needs some gating on those guitars, it'll tighten up the overall sound.
Back off on the mid EQ for the bass, it stands out a little too much behind the guitars and emphasises in weird places.
And wow that snare needs to be smashed with a limiter, I can barely hear it. Otherwise, the input sound quality is pretty decent and workable into a good result IMO.
#25
I have an HD500 processor that I use as my sound interface but here's what I do:

I capture the sound with my HD500 which allows me to records with a delay of 7ms, which is almost non-existent.
I do not use my processor to make my tones. Processors suck. You can love what you hear or it may sound good to you but technically speaking, it's way too digital. Aren't VSTs like BIAS or Amplitube digital as well? Yes, they are. But their programming allows them to use the specifications of your PC - which are way mightier than your processor will ever be.
I suggest you use your processor as a digital converter/sound interface as well and make your tones on your PC. Check my EP for an example of that: https://soundcloud.com/sammetry/sets/creatio

Secondly, EQ is a must. Gain/drive/overdrive adds a lot of energy to the recordings but a lot of overtone as well. You have to learn to use an EQ properly if you want your guitars to sound rad. Any instrument really. EQ does it all, and it's the center magic of mixing.

Compression is not that much of a need but a choice when it comes to mixing electric guitars, depending on the guitarist technique. Some players have sloppy technique, causing different velocities to go through their strings and compression is crucial then. But if you're a guitarist with a steady picking technique, then it's just a matter of taste with compressors. I recommend not to compress guitars too much because the overtone is hidden under some -30 dB thresholds usually and it will start to pop out with heavy compression.

And last and most important: Gate. You have to have a noise gate. Preferably during the recording. Or you have to make sure your static fuzz is so low (drive enhances this, as you know) that it's almost inaudible and will disappear with a low setting gating. But if you have a strong static when you're recording, it's not gonna go away. No noise gate will allow your guitar tone to slip through its fingers while capturing the static noise only. That will happen literally 0 times.

Hope these help.

I listened to your recording. It's not bad at all. Your efforts are in the right place, I feel. But I can hear the lack of EQing on the recording in general (meaning every instruments EQ needs to be tweaked).

Good luck!