#1
Hi!

I've been working on my rhythm but I'm stuck on this next example.

I don't know how to count when the dotted half note in 9/4 becomes a dotted quarter note in 9/8 and then the dotted quarter note becomes a quarter note in 4/4.

#3
Well the first change is easy, just 2x the speed.

Then, using the guide, you know that that last dotted quarter in 9/8 is the same duration as the 2 eights in 4/4. Use that to help.

Yes, complex.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#4
Quote by Jet Penguin
Well the first change is easy, just 2x the speed.

Then, using the guide, you know that that last dotted quarter in 9/8 is the same duration as the 2 eights in 4/4. Use that to help.

Yes, complex.

2x the speed?
So the eight notes in the 9/8 bar will sound as long as a quarter note in the 9/4 bar?
#5
First of all, to me this exercise seems very impractical. It looks like the writer tried to make it look as complex as possible - and this is not how it's in real life. Most of the time people try to make notation as easy to read as possible. The change from 9/4 to 9/8 is unnecessary. The whole first 4 bars could have been notated in 9/8 (the first two bars with half note values).

The beat stays the same throughout the whole rhythm. In 9/4 one bar has three dotted half notes - that's your beat. In 9/8 one bar has three dotted quarter notes, and that's your beat. In 4/4 you count quarter notes. You could think 9/4 and 9/8 as 3/4 with triplets.

Also, I listened to the rhythm and to me it didn't really make that much sense. It's a very impractical exercise. I would suggest doing something else if you want to improve your rhythm.


But yeah, count to three in 9/4 and 9/8 bars (look at the note groupings). Maybe think them as 3/4 with triplets.

Maybe this helps:



First figure out where the beats are. You may want to mark them. Just remember, in 9/4 you count dotted half notes, in 9/8 you count dotted quarters and in 4/4 you count quarters (obviously).
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at May 5, 2015,
#6
i'm loving those 32nd notes :upto:


and no, the eighth notes will become 16th notes essentially. Once it shift to 9/8 you basically 'transpose' the time to make it twice as fast. half notes become quarter notes, 32's becomes 64ths and stuff.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#7
Quote by MaggaraMarine
First of all, to me this exercise seems very impractical. It looks like the writer tried to make it look as complex as possible - and this is not how it's in real life. Most of the time people try to make notation as easy to read as possible. The change from 9/4 to 9/8 is unnecessary. The whole first 4 bars could have been notated in 9/8 (the first two bars with half note values).

The beat stays the same throughout the whole rhythm. In 9/4 one bar has three dotted half notes - that's your beat. In 9/8 one bar has three dotted quarter notes, and that's your beat. In 4/4 you count quarter notes. You could think 9/4 and 9/8 as 3/4 with triplets.

Also, I listened to the rhythm and to me it didn't really make that much sense. It's a very impractical exercise. I would suggest doing something else if you want to improve your rhythm.


But yeah, count to three in 9/4 and 9/8 bars (look at the note groupings). Maybe think them as 3/4 with triplets.

Maybe this helps:



First figure out where the beats are. You may want to mark them. Just remember, in 9/4 you count dotted half notes, in 9/8 you count dotted quarters and in 4/4 you count quarters (obviously).



It's part of an exam from a conservatory.
Thanks
#8
What Baby Joel said. Use the note equivalencies they give you to work it out.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#10
oh man I didn't notice the common time. it's just going to be one of those random in your face surprise time signature change


maybe someone smarter than me can explain it and stuff, but if it were me, I would jsut practice the transition over and over again
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#11
ok so i might be an idiot, but I looked at it again. looks like once you change into 4/4, the beat is what the dotted quarter notes used to be. so yes, i believe it would sound slower
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#12
Maybe use a metronome to practice the rhythm. The whole thing is in 54 bpm. In the first two bars a dotted half note = 54 bpm, in the 3rd and 4th bars a dotted quarter note = 54 bpm. In the 4/4 bars a quarter note = 54 bpm.

Look at the note I posted - it's the same rhythm without tempo changes. It makes it look a bit complicated, and I don't know if it's easier or harder to read. But this way you don't need to think about tempo changes.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#13
It's created to look much more complicated than what it really is. As for what's been stated, the 9/4 notation at a dotted half note BPM of 54 being turned into a 9/8 notation at a dotted quarter note BPM of 54 is completely unnecessary.

I will say, though, that in the 4th measure of the original notation that you presented doesn't equal a 9/8 notation, as in order for that to happen, another quarter note rest would have to be added at the end of it, since the 16th notes are written as 4 notes being equal to 2 notes. In order to make it work without the quarter note rest at the end, the 16th notes would have to be written as 2 notes being equal to 3 notes, as shown in this image down below.

Last edited by BiroZombie at May 5, 2015,
#15
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Maybe use a metronome to practice the rhythm. The whole thing is in 54 bpm. In the first two bars a dotted half note = 54 bpm, in the 3rd and 4th bars a dotted quarter note = 54 bpm. In the 4/4 bars a quarter note = 54 bpm.

Look at the note I posted - it's the same rhythm without tempo changes. It makes it look a bit complicated, and I don't know if it's easier or harder to read. But this way you don't need to think about tempo changes.


This.

It doesn't "speed up" at the modulation.

The initial tempo marking is dotted half = 54.

At the modulation, the new marking indicates that the dotted quarter = same duration as the dotted half - just a different subdivision of the beat.
"No one is a sorcerer every hour of the day. How could you live?" — Pablo Picasso
#16
Quote by MaggaraMarine
First of all, to me this exercise seems very impractical. It looks like the writer tried to make it look as complex as possible - and this is not how it's in real life. Most of the time people try to make notation as easy to read as possible. The change from 9/4 to 9/8 is unnecessary. The whole first 4 bars could have been notated in 9/8 (the first two bars with half note values).


This again.

In just about any real world musical situation I can think of, if I were to hand a chart like that to a group of musicians, they would just hand it back to me and ask me to rewrite it in a manner similar to the example you posted.
"No one is a sorcerer every hour of the day. How could you live?" — Pablo Picasso
#17
^ Nope, a lot musicians read metric modulated notation. One you get used to it, it isn't that hard. Conductors use it all the time to move between tempos in movements of music.
To OP: This is actually my specialty, so I'll write it out in a better way and guide you through it.
Last edited by GoldenGuitar at May 6, 2015,
#18
Quote by GoldenGuitar
^ Nope, a lot musicians read metric modulated notation. One you get used to it, it isn't that hard. Conductors use it all the time to move between tempos in movements of music.
To OP: This is actually my specialty, so I'll write it out in a better way and guide you through it.


It's not so much a question of whether anyone reads music notated this way - of course they do.

It's really a question of whether you want to get your ideas across in the simplest and/or least confusing possible way or not.

That's how I was trained, anyway.

YMMV.
"No one is a sorcerer every hour of the day. How could you live?" — Pablo Picasso
#19
The rhythm itself is not that hard. The tempo is slow so even the fastest note values aren't really that fast. I would say the most difficult part is not the "complex rhythms". It is the bar #4. That's where you change from triplets to straight 8ths. You just need to keep the same beat and change your thinking from triplets to straight 8ths.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#20
toine, for bar 4 I'd be thinking in a 3 over 2 polyrhythm. So that I'm hearing the triplets and quavers at the same time. Then I'd play the first quaver triplet, and the semiquaver triplet after the second quaver triplet. This will then sound like two quavers, so once you hear how two quavers sound at this tempo, you can then sub-divide in your head quavers and semiquavers for the rest of the bar. Also I've written below how I'd write it in metric modulation, it is also a common courtesy to write a new tempo marking every time you metric modulate as I've done below. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me.
Last edited by GoldenGuitar at May 6, 2015,
#21
Listen to Golden, he's the man at this stuff.

And this IS the simplest way in certain contexts.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#22
Quote by Jet Penguin
What Baby Joel said.

Quote by Jet Penguin
Listen to Golden, he's the man at this stuff. .



wounded
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#23
Sorry Baby Joel, but Golden's 'more' on it here.

He literally specializes in this, that wasn't a joke. It's his field.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#24
aye i gotcha :p
golden got that image and all that. case sorted nahmean
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#25
Yeah bruh. Check them PM's son.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp