#1
I'm in a pickle. I can't tell if I should go with a 2x12 or a 4x12. I'm going to be ordering from avatar. The price and space is no an issue, this is about speaker combos. I'm going to be using this with my Mesa Boogie dual rectifier for now, though at some point in the future I may sell it and get a 6534+ (nothing in stone yet)

If I went with the 2x12 I was going to do the V30, Creamback combo which I've heard will do really well with the 6534. The problem with going 2x12 is that I don't know which V30 avatar offers, I don't know if they would still just use the 30 watt v30 in a 2x12 or if they would use the 60 watt. I don't want to find out it's the 30 watt and then have it be a huge waste of time and money when it blows and I have to go buy the 60 watt after market and install it. Instillation is the other problem, I have no idea how to install speakers. However, if I go with the 4x12 I was going to do a G12H30 combo which I have heard will work relatively well with the mesa head.
Does anyone have any insight they can provide on this?
#2
AFAIK V-30s are all 60-watt. Anyhow, if I'm wrong, you'd be able to specify that with Avatar when you order it.

As for 412 vs. 212, that's entirely preference. But here are some differences:

412s sound 'bigger,' looser, and have more filled-in lows. Another plus is that they are taller so you're more likely to have speakers aimed at your head so you can really hear what's going on. (212s benefit from being lifted off the floor, because, as Cathbard would say, "you don't have ears on your feet.")

212s can still sound big, but not quite the same. The low-end is more focused (tighter). And obviously, they're easier to transport.

I prefer the sound of a 412 myself. It has nothing to do with volume, either. Both are capable of peeling paint off the walls with the right amp driving them. For my playing, I actually like a little bit of "looseness" or sag in my response and I want the guitar to sound huge. It is a bitch carrying my 100+ pound cab up and down the stairs though. However, with my gorilla arms, it's not too bad lol. But I use a dolly everywhere else. So if you've got stairs and are going to gig a lot -- I'd definitely consider a 212.
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#3
Quote by cheosamad
Instillation is the other problem, I have no idea how to install speakers.


Most speakers have flat terminals on them and the wires have kind of a socket that just slides on, so it's ridiculously simple

In the rare case that the speakers don't have those (heritage celestions for example, which cost about twice as much as the regular ones) you'd need to solder the wires to the speaker terminals.

So to change speakers in most cases is literally just:
Unscrew the back panel
Slide the wire off of the speaker (make a note of which wires go where)
Unscrew the speaker (normally just four screws, but can be eight)
Put the new speaker in place and screw it in (they have a standardised design so the screws will go back in the same place they were)
Slide the wires back on to the new speaker's terminals
Put the back panel back on the cab
Done


As far as speaker choice, it's all preference really.
I personally liked a v30/g12h30 combo, but then changed the v30 for a greenback which I preferred for the kind of sound I wanted. (I like the looseness compared to the v30)
Your tastes may be different.

I'd definitely rather go 2x12 if I had to carry it
But again it's a different sound and it's a preference. And obviously power handling comes in to it as well
Last edited by xnameisonx at May 6, 2015,
#4
Since price and space is not an issue, buy one of each.
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#5
Quote by Arby911
Since price and space is not an issue, buy one of each.


There ya go.
#7
My suggestion would be the 2x12 with Avatar's Hellatone 60's.

2x12 because it's smaller, lighter, and because you can put it on something like an OnStage RS7000 stand to get it up where you can hear it. While size and weight might not be a factor for your immediate future, your needs may change and 4x12s can be a PIA down the road.

I'm not exactly onboard with KailM's assessment of the sound differences (I have four 4x12s); my experience with them is that they beam treble (if you're not on axis with the center of the cabinet, which is 15" off the ground, you're not hearing what the cabinet is actually producing). I've worked with all four in a wall, with pairs in a stack, and with a single cab on the floor. I eventually found that the best results were with a full stack with only one side of each cabinet actually firing (you can easily do that with a "stereo" 4x12) so that it was like a pair of 2x12 set up vertically. At some point it occurred to me that aside from stage decoration, carting around 200 lbs worth of cabinets really made little sense. Didn't say I was the sharpest knife in the drawer <G>.

The 2x12 actually has wider dispersion side to side if you set it up vertically. Set up on a stand horizontally with a slight tilt to point it at your head, you'll hear exactly what it offers to any audience.

My favorite 2x12 comes with a pair of broken-in V30's I don't think there ARE any 30W Vintage 30's -- not sure where you got that. I don't recommend the V30/Creamback combination. What you hear when you get the 2x12 new will change over time, and won't sound as good longterm.

Note that I mentioned "broken-in" V30's. Avatar sells the Hellatone 60 (don't mistake this for the Hellatone 30, an entirely different speaker), which is a re-stickered Vintage 30 that's been put through a breaking-in process. The good news is that you start with a gorgeous-sounding cabinet and it stays that way. If you start with a Vintage 30 and a Creamback, the cabinet will sound decent enough, but will eventually seem to lose definition. This is because the Vintage 30 is mellowing a bit, and the slight harshness that the Creamback compensated for has disappeared, and now the combination sounds a bit lifeless. A pair of broken-in V30's (or the Hellatone 60's) will stay pretty much the same for a generation or two. The Hellatone 60s will still change a tiny bit, but will settle in pretty quickly.
#8
You can't go wrong either way. The 212 is way easier to haul around for gigs, but it's totally up to you.

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#9
I have been a gigging musician for over 20yrs, a good 4x12 can not be beat. I have a 2x12 that is great, but the 4x12 still wins every time.

A 2x12 you can carry in one hand, a 4x12 will roll on casters which is way easier.
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at May 6, 2015,
#10
Quote by Robbgnarly

A 2x12 you can carry in one hand


wtf i can barely lift a 2x12 in two
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#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
wtf i can barely lift a 2x12 in two

sorry Dave, but I'm like Thor, I can lift a Morris with one arm
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Lol
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
It's really all about moving in storage. If you have a road crew or you can easily move big stuff around get the 412. If it's just you and a small car, get the 212. I ditched the 412 cab when I turned 30 and I've never looked back.
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#14
Vertical 2x12
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#15
i say to go with the 4x12" if you have the space. i have six 4x12"s and two 2x12"s.

the size difference isn't that big, and i am with Robb. i can carry a 2x12" with one hand, but its easier to roll a 4x12". and even if you get a stand for the 2x12" its just another thing to carry. at that point you may as well just wheel a 4x12".

i really like V30's with K100's. that is what i use with my tremoverb and one of my splawns (they get moved around a bit). i love K85's/100's alone and mixed with V30's.

i haven't tried creambacks yet though. i want to though. i just don't have room for any more cabs.
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