#1
Hi, I've been playing guitar for about 5 years mostly classical with tabs (self taught). I've been playing some metal on and off (things like master of puppets, one, various intros etc.) but I can never get the amp settings right to make whatever I'm playing sound like legit metal. I've got a PRS standard SE and an original line6 pod. Could anybody give me any tips? Do I need different pickups/guitar? Do I need a new amp? Is there some playing technique I'm unaware of? Again, I mostly play classical, so I'm not really aware of a lot of the things I aught to be doing as a metal guitarist.

PS: I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section (wasn't quite sure where to ask).

Ben.
Last edited by benjaminhonan at May 10, 2015,
#2
not sure what amp models your POD has but on mine i use either the soldano or mesa amp models for metal stuff. start there.
#3
Hi monwobobbo,

I just have the barebones oldscool one. The amp models I have are Modern class A, Brit Class A, Brit Blues, Brit classic, Brit high gain, rectified, modern higain, fuzz box, tube preamp, pod clean, pod crunch, pod drive, pod layer, small tweed, tweed blues and black panel.

Thanks for your response,

Ben.
#4
Quote by benjaminhonan
Hi monwobobbo,

I just have the barebones oldscool one. The amp models I have are Modern class A, Brit Class A, Brit Blues, Brit classic, Brit high gain, rectified, modern higain, fuzz box, tube preamp, pod clean, pod crunch, pod drive, pod layer, small tweed, tweed blues and black panel.

Thanks for your response,

Ben.

Maybe you should get a new amp, but since I haven't much experience with the line 6 pod, I can't say much more.
#5
Quote by benjaminhonan
Hi monwobobbo,

I just have the barebones oldscool one. The amp models I have are Modern class A, Brit Class A, Brit Blues, Brit classic, Brit high gain, rectified, modern higain, fuzz box, tube preamp, pod clean, pod crunch, pod drive, pod layer, small tweed, tweed blues and black panel.

Thanks for your response,

Ben.


ok try Brit high gain, rectified, modern high gain. now don't go nuts with the gain setting just dial in enough to get a good crunch sound. this should get you going in the right direction. keep in mind that you aren't likely to be able to duplicate the tones you hear on songs but you should be able to dial in something that kinda sounds like it.
#6
Hey yeh, I can get a really dirty metal sounds if I do something like you pointed out. But what I would really like to get something more clean sounding. So I suppose buying a new amp would be best? Perhaps one of the newer POD models?

Thanks again btw,

Ben.
#7
well an amp would be good but don't get one if you can't afford something half way decent you'd be better off sticking with the POD. the fender amp models will give you a good clean sound (tweed, tweed blues, black panel)
#8
Quote by benjaminhonan
Hey yeh, I can get a really dirty metal sounds if I do something like you pointed out. But what I would really like to get something more clean sounding. So I suppose buying a new amp would be best? Perhaps one of the newer POD models?

Thanks again btw,

Ben.


If you really want to start playing metal, want to get a better metal sound and you are willing to spend some money, then I see no reason not to get a new amp. Go to the Guitar Gear & Accessories forum if you need help choosing a new amp.
#9
Quote by benjaminhonan
Hey yeh, I can get a really dirty metal sounds if I do something like you pointed out. But what I would really like to get something more clean sounding. So I suppose buying a new amp would be best? Perhaps one of the newer POD models?

Thanks again btw,

Ben.

I think part of the problem here is that you're not being specific enough. The POD has a massive array of tones and options available to it so to get something good out of it you need to know what you're aiming for. So the question is... what do you want to sound like? "clean sounding" doesn't really help very much, so as a starting point: can you give an example of the kind of sound you want to achieve?
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#10
It may be in your muting technique. You may not be able to achieve a "clean" tone, because your strings may be ringing out when they shouldn't. If you are used to playing with a clean sound (or on acoustic guitar), your muting technique may not be that great, because clean sound is kind of forgiving when it comes to muting. But on distortion you need to be more careful.
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#11
^ +1. Also digging in a bit for palm mutes etc. to get a bit of chunk. You don't really strum much in metal (or at least in the types of metal I play).
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#13
I love the way everyone's telling TS what to do when we don't actually have any information about what they want or what might be wrong yet
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#14
I feel like the answer is obvious enough. Ditch the pod. Get an amp. Better metal sound. Done. Especially if you're using that super old school original pod. Those things are tinny as hell.

But yeah, there could be some technique issues as well, if you're used to playing acoustic.
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Last edited by the_bi99man at May 10, 2015,
#15
Thanks so much for the help everyone!

I'm not being very specific because whenever I play something that's supposed to mimic metal, it always sounds dodgy as hell. The kind of sound I had in mind was something along the lines of slayer raining blood or something like that. I would be psyched to make my guitar sound like that.

So I suppose the best thing would be to ask around in the equipment section for amps, unless you guys don't mind me asking here? By the way I do actually own a vox ac15vr (in parents' house). Is there anyway I could get some "metal sounds" out of that (I've tried so hard over the years, distortion pedals etc.)?

I'll try palm muting etc. more in the future as well, thanks.
Last edited by benjaminhonan at May 10, 2015,
#17
Quote by benjaminhonan
Hi, I've been playing guitar for about 5 years mostly classical with tabs (self taught). I've been playing some metal on and off (things like master of puppets, one, various intros etc.) but I can never get the amp settings right to make whatever I'm playing sound like legit metal. I've got a PRS standard SE and an original line6 pod. Could anybody give me any tips? Do I need different pickups/guitar? Do I need a new amp? Is there some playing technique I'm unaware of? Again, I mostly play classical, so I'm not really aware of a lot of the things I aught to be doing as a metal guitarist.

PS: I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section (wasn't quite sure where to ask).

Ben.


The main reason why you're not getting that metal sound is because this sound is mostly achieved within the tube amp system and its internal gain and distortion. So unless you got the money for that you are probably with smaller amps, modelling amps etc. So we need pedals and effects.

My guitar has blues-type Gibson pickups (its a metal guitar) so EMG is not needed but that's why EMG pickups are there. Its built in metal fuzz.

When you start playing metal you either have EMG pickups or you will need distortion in your amp/pedals. Even with EMG you will need more. You will usually rev up the gain and scoop out the mids. This works in the worst possible way at getting your first metal sound. Now I learned somewhere that you should attempt to keep that metal sound but dial back on the gain and distortion and the settings and bring up the mids again, slowly. The more you are able to get a metal sound by playing without throwing your amp settings into extremes is something that helped me.

The next thing that helped me is to discriminate as a metal player between metal pedals/gear and non-metal pedals/gear. This means if it doesn't say metal on the pedal then its probably not going to get that metal sound you want. What do I mean by this? I mean there are awesome fuzz pedals like let's say Overdrive pedals or tubescreamers. The thing is, these are great for rock, hard rock but most metal needs more than that if its not in the amp. Amps sometimes are used in combination with a tubescreamer in metal but you don't need that for now.

The best move I made was to get a proper metal distortion pedal. Not something generalized but for distortion.

If you want 80s sound metal. The EHX Metal Muff is the job. You won't need another distortion box. If you want new sounding metal. The Dunlop MXR fullbore pedal is what you want. These changed everything I knew about metal distortion and getting that metal sound.

Hope this helps
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
Last edited by Deermonic at May 13, 2015,
#18
Quote by Deermonic
The main reason why you're not getting that metal sound is because this sound is mostly achieved within the tube amp system and its internal gain and distortion. So unless you got the money for that you are probably with smaller amps, modelling amps etc. So we need pedals and effects.

My guitar has blues-type Gibson pickups (its a metal guitar) so EMG is not needed but that's why EMG pickups are there. Its built in metal fuzz.

When you start playing metal you either have EMG pickups or you will need distortion in your amp/pedals. Even with EMG you will need more. You will usually rev up the gain and scoop out the mids. This works in the worst possible way at getting your first metal sound. Now I learned somewhere that you should attempt to keep that metal sound but dial back on the gain and distortion and the settings and bring up the mids again, slowly. The more you are able to get a metal sound by playing without throwing your amp settings into extremes is something that helped me.

The next thing that helped me is to discriminate as a metal player between metal pedals/gear and non-metal pedals/gear. This means if it doesn't say metal on the pedal then its probably not going to get that metal sound you want. What do I mean by this? I mean there are awesome fuzz pedals like let's say Overdrive pedals or tubescreamers. The thing is, these are great for rock, hard rock but most metal needs more than that if its not in the amp. Amps sometimes are used in combination with a tubescreamer in metal but you don't need that for now.

The best move I made was to get a proper metal distortion pedal. Not something generalized but for distortion.

If you want 80s sound metal. The EHX Metal Muff is the job. You won't need another distortion box. If you want new sounding metal. The Dunlop MXR fullbore pedal is what you want. These changed everything I knew about metal distortion and getting that metal sound.

Hope this helps


interesting but full of inaccuracies. you don't need EMGs or other active pickups to play metal for starters. a tubescreamer is an overdrive pedal they are a seperate thing. overdrive and fuzz aren't the same thing.

"metal" pedals often sound good at bedroom volumes but once you get to band volumes tend to fall short so keep that in mind.

Deermonic not picking on you and your advice isn't without merit just wanted to clear up a couple of things you are correct that much metal is done with tube amps. having said that for recording and increasingly live they are moving towrds modelling like Axe-FX. for practice purposes you can get a metal sound out of a POD reall with no problem. i use one to record with as it is easier to deal with than live micing an amp. (see link in profile).
#19
Dude if you reread my post you will see it agrees with your position. Do quote me specifically if you feel something's out.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#20
These are both quite inaccurate:

Quote by Deermonic
The main reason why you're not getting that metal sound is because this sound is mostly achieved within the tube amp system and its internal gain and distortion. So unless you got the money for that you are probably with smaller amps, modelling amps etc. So we need pedals and effects.

Modelling amps and small solid state amps will cover metal tones just fine for bedroom practice. Bigger modellers will cover live just fine as well. For example this is the gear that TS actually has:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHEYY1z4I5w

Quote by Deermonic
My guitar has blues-type Gibson pickups (its a metal guitar) so EMG is not needed but that's why EMG pickups are there. Its built in metal fuzz.

This is just wrong. EMGs aren't "built in metal fuzz" or anything close to it, they're high output for sure but the signal coming out of them itself is clean as anything; they were originally developed as pickups intended for jazz if I remember rightly. They're often used for metal because of their characteristically well defined tone and high output, nothing to do with "built in metal fuzz" at all. Hell, most bands that use them don't even use fuzz tones anyway. I would suggest that if the signal coming out of any set of EMGs you've used then they seriously need to be looked at.
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#21
I don't use EMG but had EMG MetalWorks EMG-81. I think they sounded crunchy, but each to their own. If you pull good metal tones from a Peavy modelling amp alone then fine but see my signature. Been there and bought the T-shirt.

I think the 186 people here are right http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/guitar_effects/electro-harmonix/metal_muff_with_top_boost&prev=search
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#22
Quote by Deermonic
I don't use EMG but had EMG MetalWorks EMG-81. I think they sounded crunchy, but each to their own. If you pull good metal tones from a Peavy modelling amp alone then fine but see my signature. Been there and bought the T-shirt.

I think the 186 people here are right http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/guitar_effects/electro-harmonix/metal_muff_with_top_boost&prev=search

They can have sounded any way you like through your gear but that doesn't make what you said any more true; they're super-clean, precise, and super high output due to the powered preamp on board. It provides no distortion, just a lot of signal so it hits your amp harder and may end up sounding like more gain/crunch that way.

And here is the amp in your signature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwCWLaGqN0s

If you can't get workable metal tones out of it that's your fault. I'm not questioning the Metal Muff, I'm sure it's fine, but any modeller worth the money has access to plenty of metal tones. Hell, I tend to find that super clean and high gain are the best tones from modellers, the mid- and low-gain tones tend to be the worst in my experience from anything short of an Axe-FX. Hell, I can get decent high gain tones out of my Roland Micro Cube, something like the Vypyr should be easy if you know what you're doing.
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#23
Quote by Deermonic
I don't use EMG but had EMG MetalWorks EMG-81. I think they sounded crunchy, but each to their own. If you pull good metal tones from a Peavy modelling amp alone then fine but see my signature. Been there and bought the T-shirt.

I think the 186 people here are right http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/guitar_effects/electro-harmonix/metal_muff_with_top_boost&prev=search


wow you mean you didn't get spectacular tones from a 15 watt practice amp with an 8" spearker, now way

the link you provided didn't work either. dude just because a bunch of people use EMGs doesn't mean it's the only way to go.

i've been playing metal since the late 70s thinking i might have learned a thing or two about getting metal tones along the way.
#24
I didn't say EMG is the way to go. Obviously you read my post again and realized I have double humbuckers and not EMG. However nearly all modern metal guitars have EMG.

As for modeling amp settings being sufficient. Your call. If you think its great fine. I think it sucked compared to what I use now. Fact is the pedals I mention simply destroy even the tubescreamer settings xxx or 6505. If you think your giving the OP the metal sound they want then have at it.

Here is the muff if he gets fedup trying to get blood from a stone - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/guitar_effects/electro-harmonix/metal_muff_with_top_boost
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
Last edited by Deermonic at May 14, 2015,
#25
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr


If you can't get workable metal tones out of it that's your fault. ....something like the Vypyr should be easy if you know what you're doing.


I don't know if you have ever personally used one but if you know what your doing then you look online for the settings to match a song by a band according to what combo you have. You dial in specifically the settings and there you have what everyone else has for that tune on that modelling combo. From there on in you tweak or not. You can't go wrong you just get what you paid for. Since he said Metallica then IMO he is talking Muff with the top boost. Just look it up.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
#26
^ If you know what you are doing, you don't have to look for presets online. (In my experience online presets don't even work that well. I have tried some of them with my RP355 and they have not sounded anything like what they are trying to sound like - well it's not a Vypyr, but whatever.) The best thing to do is just to listen to the album and trying to get as close as possible - and you don't really even need to get close to the tone on the album. Just tweak the settings and try to find a good tone. Use your ears.
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#27
They work just fine for Peavey. People talk about them on here. Obviously if it doesn't sound like the song go find a new one that does. Plenty of setting that work well with lots of different artists, albums, songs, riffs etc. I don't believe that someone does something "special" that someone else can't do by following the instructions. In fact that's the whole point of a modelling amp to the point that Line 6 lets people share settings via bluetooth. So copying other people's settings is not a problem and in fact other people do it here too plenty including putting together systems that model their fav artists.

In fact this method works just fine with any setup as long as you have the same technology, be it tubes, modelling or sticks on stones. Any claims that someone can always dial that little better isn't going to transform a room modelling amp into a thunderverb or rockerverb. That's done with new gear. These modelling amps are general purpose modelling amps. You get to hear what it "could" sound like if you had the real thing. Hence why most of us realize after awhile that if you play metal, then that's pretty technical and hence the need to expand beyond just the modelling amp for what you really want to hear. The best choice I ever made was going with metal gear for metal and not general gear trying to achieve it unless you have a very good amp.

BTW - the 6505 on the Peavey modelling amps are not great at all. The setting that makes this amp worth its money is the B-Kat setting that is modelling a Bad Cat. Its very close to how that very expensive rock amp sounds, but IMO that's where it ends when it comes to metal with these modelling amps. I would much rather have a Muff pedal and use the B-Kat setting than just trying to model metal using the 6505. Might sound great for the first few minutes you hear it but obviously the OP wants metal. Not pseudo-metal.
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Last edited by Deermonic at May 14, 2015,
#28
I'm gonna be quite honest here. I can get a pretty dang good metal tone out of a Fender Vibrolux tube amp, tc flashback delay, tubescreamer, and boss compressor. Even when plugging in a single coil strat, but especially with a Les Paul or other humbucker variant. I could do without the delay, but compressor seems to work great for getting a tight metal crunch. Also, my tubescreamer isnt maxed out on the gain by any means.


My point isn't that this is the best set up ever for metal, because its not. But a little experimentation with what you have can go a long way. It also can't be overstated how much technique and pick attack contribute to your tone as well.
#29
Quote by Deermonic
They work just fine for Peavey. People talk about them on here. Obviously if it doesn't sound like the song go find a new one that does. Plenty of setting that work well with lots of different artists, albums, songs, riffs etc. I don't believe that someone does something "special" that someone else can't do by following the instructions. In fact that's the whole point of a modelling amp to the point that Line 6 lets people share settings via bluetooth. So copying other people's settings is not a problem and in fact other people do it here too plenty including putting together systems that model their fav artists.

In fact this method works just fine with any setup as long as you have the same technology, be it tubes, modelling or sticks on stones. Any claims that someone can always dial that little better isn't going to transform a room modelling amp into a thunderverb or rockerverb. That's done with new gear. These modelling amps are general purpose modelling amps. You get to hear what it "could" sound like if you had the real thing. Hence why most of us realize after awhile that if you play metal, then that's pretty technical and hence the need to expand beyond just the modelling amp for what you really want to hear. The best choice I ever made was going with metal gear for metal and not general gear trying to achieve it unless you have a very good amp.

BTW - the 6505 on the Peavey modelling amps are not great at all. The setting that makes this amp worth its money is the B-Kat setting that is modelling a Bad Cat. Its very close to how that very expensive rock amp sounds, but IMO that's where it ends when it comes to metal with these modelling amps. I would much rather have a Muff pedal and use the B-Kat setting than just trying to model metal using the 6505. Might sound great for the first few minutes you hear it but obviously the OP wants metal. Not pseudo-metal.


dude really Peavey's modelling of their own amp doesn't cut it. most people say it's an excellent representation. if your way works for you then great but the OP doesn't have the Bad Cat option for starters so it's kind of a moot point. i had a Metal Muff a few years back and put it through a clean tube amp. sounded good at bedroom levels but live it just didn't make the grade. how much band experience do you have with the setup you are using? i've certainly managed to get some good metal tones from my POD. no 6505 on it though. as i said i use the dual rec or soldano amps and that works fine (hear results in profile link).
#30
Quote by monwobobbo
dude really Peavey's modelling of their own amp doesn't cut it. most people say it's an excellent representation.


No. It isn't. Play a Peavey tube amp and there is the difference.

if your way works for you then great but the OP doesn't have the Bad Cat option for starters so it's kind of a moot point.


I wouldn't use this option at all. My Peavey does something else. I use a Line 6 150W AmpliFi as in my sig... and yes, with a muff, at home. The difference is a world apart. I dial my muff like its an amp its that good.

i had a Metal Muff a few years back and put it through a clean tube amp. sounded good at bedroom levels but live it just didn't make the grade.


Oh interesting, because everyone who has used this pedal has hailed it for its Metallica-like sounds. Hence the 180+ reviews saying just that here on UG.

how much band experience do you have with the setup you are using? i've certainly managed to get some good metal tones from my POD. no 6505 on it though. as i said i use the dual rec or soldano amps and that works fine (hear results in profile link).


Well if you found that pedal to not make the grade then good look with your POD.

Also, if old metal is not someone's scene but new metal then that is what a Dunlop MXR fullbore is for.

The point is this. Older Metal bands use distortion in the amp. That's what you have to recreate.
Dean MAB1. Epiphone Annihilation V. EVH 5150III. Orange PPC112. Earthquaker devices - The Warden, Arrows, Acapulco Gold, Levitation, Night Wire. TS9, DD3, GE7, NS2, LS2, Polytune mini, Small Stone. SM57. Focusrite. LINUX!
Last edited by Deermonic at May 14, 2015,
#31
Quote by Deermonic
No. It isn't. Play a Peavey tube amp and there is the difference.


I wouldn't use this option at all. My Peavey does something else. I use a Line 6 150W AmpliFi as in my sig... and yes, with a muff, at home. The difference is a world apart. I dial my muff like its an amp its that good.


Oh interesting, because everyone who has used this pedal has hailed it for its Metallica-like sounds. Hence the 180+ reviews saying just that here on UG.


Well if you found that pedal to not make the grade then good look with your POD.

Also, if old metal is not someone's scene but new metal then that is what a Dunlop MXR fullbore is for.

The point is this. Older Metal bands use distortion in the amp. That's what you have to recreate.


ok next time i invite you to look into my profile perhaps you should. i have a really nice Peavey Ultra 2x12 as my main amp. pretty sure i know what a high gain peavey amp sounds like. played through many 5150s and 6505s over the years as well.

as for the Metal Muff. never said it doesn't give you that type of sound just that when turned up loud it doesn't sound the same. sorry but a distortion pedal will never sound as good as an actual cranked tube amp. even through a clean tube amp it just didn't cut it. i can find 180 reviews of a 15 watt Line 6 amp that will say it's "awesome" doesn't make it true.

my POD is just for recording and once again feel free to check out whether it succeeds or not. i don't play br00tz much thesedays but was in a thrash band back in the 80s.

once again i have no need to "recreate" those tones i can get them the way they were meant to.