#1
Hi

My band have recently said bye to our bass player. So i had the idea of running a sub octave pedal our from my guitar, since he only played what my rhythm guitar did anyway. We actually replaced him with another guitars since it makes more sense for our songs and style.

The combo of guitar and bass from one guitar does sound pretty good. In fact it sounds huge. I've used a tuner and noise suppressor to mute and have a really nice guitar tone already. But somethings is still not right. I know you obviously can't fully replace a bass guitar but I was looking for a pedal or something to give the bass a bit of space. I'm going to get a Bass EQ to find the tone and get the sound right but it still feel like it's too perfect, because i guess it is spot on. I almost need something to de-perfect the timing or something. haha.

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

Cheers
B
#2
You do realize that everything you play on your guitar will be lower in pitch not just the lower E string. A guitar run through an octave pedal sounds like a guitar run through an ocave pedal. It doen't sound like a bass guitar and unless your amp is a bass amp it won't even come close to having enough bottom end. If a bass guitar is important to your sound get another bass player. I'm not really sure what your question is but you can't replace a real bass sound with another guitar and an octave box.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at May 13, 2015,
#3
You can't replace a bass guitarist with another instrument. Especially considering that the rhythm section of the band is fundamental in determining how everything on top (vocals, guitar etc) is going to sound.
#4
I am using a bass amp. How else would i get a bass sound? My question had nothing to do with tone. I'm happy with the tone. I was asking if there was an effects pedal out there that could give the bass signal some space. Free it up a little so it had a bit of play to it. Your answer is exactly why I love posting on forums. Cheers.
#5
So you're asking about giving your sub-octave guitar signal "some space?" Or are you looking for a sub-octave pedal for your guitar to "make it" a bass? Or are you just trying to add a load of bass frequencies to a regular guitar signal?

Why not just route the money from whatever pedal that could exist and get a bass?
Last edited by Will Lane at May 13, 2015,
#6
If there was a way to replace bassists with pedals, we all would have done it a long time ago, lol!

A while ago I played a gig with a band whose bassist got injured a few days before the gig so he couldn't play.

What the rhythm guitarist did was plug his guitar into some sort of signal splitter. One side went to his regular pedal board and amp.

The other side went to an EQ pedal that he had configured as a low pass filter and plugged it into a bass amp.

It actually turned out pretty well but they were a spacey band without too much bass to begin with. I can't imagine this setup working anywhere near as well with any band.


Having a Bassist is like killing one thousand people to save a million. It's a necessary evil
#7
Options:

1) Emulate Charlie Hunter.

Hunter plays expensive 7 & 8 string custom hybrid guitars. They have 2 outputs, several pickups, and the bottom 2 strings are actual bass strings. The bass strings have their own bass pickups and their own output jack. He then runs them to a bass amp, while the guitar strings are monitored by guitar pickups and go to his guitar amp.

2) play a downtuned baritone guitar. Gets you close.

3) play a 6-string bass. Well, it IS a bass, but you can still have some fun with the upper 2 strings.

....or just find a new bass player.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at May 13, 2015,
#8
Flexiblemile is absolutely correct. If your bassist and drummer aren't in sync with each other the whole band sounds weak. I have played in bands of all sizes but my favorite band to work in was a trio (bass, drums, guitar) where everyone sang (leads and harmony). It could only happen because the bass and drums played simple and tight in sync with each other. I'd rather play with a good bass player and a drum machine than lose the bass.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at May 13, 2015,
#9
+1 to what everyone has said.

I know of a fairly big-name band (The Chariot) who lost their bass player for whatever reason. The guitarists traded off songs of playing sub octave guitars and normal guitar. But it was either guitar or bass, not guitar and bass at the same time from one guitarist. They did this with octave pedals and I guess an A/B switching between amps. That can work. But at that point just ditch one of the guitars and play an actual bass.

If you need a tight bass rhythm section, I do not recommend splitting a sub signal from a regular guitar part. For messier bass sections, yeah a sub signal split from regular guitar can work. But I don't even really recommend that, having a bass player is much better.

Your OP is asking for a pedal to make your pseudo bass guitar sound rougher (at least I think that is what you are asking). If you're playing the guitar as a bass octave down, then the EQ may help. But even bass guitars have higher frequencies, and that rough, "imperfect" sound comes from upper frequencies that don't really happen from a 6-string like you might would think. So put the money that would go to a pedal to a bass guitar.
Last edited by Will Lane at May 13, 2015,
#10
We've had a number of threads from guitarists that want to play guitar and somehow be the bass player at the same time. They all seem to want to try doing it with an octave pedal that feeds into a bass amp.

It doesn't work.

If your old bass player was doing nothing more than playing what you're playing on rhythm guitar now, you were probably right to get rid of him. Get a good bass player instead.

Understand something (that's been said in the posts, above). A bass player works with the drummer more than he does the guitar players. The two of them set the basis of the band far more than the guitar players do. This is something that newbs never get.
#11
Yep. Remember Rage Against the Machine? One of the things that made that band work so well was their rhythm section was tight as hell. The bass & drum made a foundation so solid, it allowed the other 2 to do whatever the hell they wanted, and it would still work.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at May 13, 2015,
#12
Hell, The Who's sound was all about Entwhistle and Moon. They'd let Pete hit a "KerCHANG" every now and then, but that's it.
#13
We tried this exact thing in my band a while ago (3 guitars. drums, vox), with me playing octave lines.

It didn't sound bad, but ti didn't sound good either. It sounded like 3 guitars and an octave generator.

A bass has a very different timbre when compared to a standard guitar, and it can only really be replaced by a keyboard, synths , and in some cases, a tuba can get the job done .

Find a new bassist.
'91 Epiphone by Gibson Sheraton JLH
Godin 5th Avenue
ESP/LTD BELLA LUGOSI DRACULA
--
Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 5
Hughes & Kettner 1x12 w/ Vintage 30's
Fender Mustang II
VOX AD30VT
--
MXR Super Badass Distortion>Boss CE-5>Boss OC-3> ???
Last edited by boblittle at May 13, 2015,
#14
Quote by boblittle
A bass has a very different timbre when compared to a standard guitar, and it can only really be replaced by a keyboard, synths , and in some cases, a tuba can get the job done
Oh, imagine if a hardcore band had a mic'd tuba player as their bassist...
#15
Going back to my original question. So there isn't a pedal that can give the bass single any space?

Irrelevant of music, tone, or opinions about replacing a bass player with a pedal. Just looking for a pedal that could separate the bass signal a little more. The only issue that I have with this set up is that its too perfect. It's too much on time. The bass signal I'm getting sounds exactly like a bass guitar. As it should do being an octave down and going through a bass amp. It's in fact, exactly like a bass guitar. It just needs a bit of wiggle room. Some kinda delay or reverb to make it more spacey.

I'm already EQing the signal to get a better tone, sounds really nice.

Quote by dspellman

Understand something (that's been said in the posts, above). A bass player works with the drummer more than he does the guitar players. The two of them set the basis of the band far more than the guitar players do. This is something that newbs never get.


Mental. No word. hahaha. You've enlighten me. 'Understand Something' hahahahahah, brilliant. 'This is something that newbs never get' even better, hahahhhahahahaha. Maybe stop playing your guitar through a line 6 'my first amp' before you call people newbs.
Last edited by brenmyster at May 14, 2015,
#16
Quote by Will Lane
Oh, imagine if a hardcore band had a mic'd tuba player as their bassist...


i was in a Nirvana cover band in high school and our bassist got sick the day of an important gig.

One of the guys in the schools band played a ridiculous amount of instruments, so we asked if he played bass and would mind filling in for us.

He said he occasionally played for the jazz band and as long as we had sheets he'd do it for us.

The night comes and the guys shows up to the dingy club, in full concert dress mind you, armed with his brand new tuba.

needless to say; it was weird as hell, but it worked

Quote by brenmyster
Going back to my original question. So there isn't a pedal that can give the bass single any space?



Just get a POG or and Octave Generator. if you really want to 'deperfectize' it, look into the BOSS OC-3 or the OC-2.

a slightly more complicated thing you could do, since your 'bass tone is so perfect', is send the bass signal (assuming you're splitting the signal, which is the best way to do this stuff) into a delay with a predelay control. set it so there is no repeats and then a set the predelay to a few ms.
'91 Epiphone by Gibson Sheraton JLH
Godin 5th Avenue
ESP/LTD BELLA LUGOSI DRACULA
--
Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 5
Hughes & Kettner 1x12 w/ Vintage 30's
Fender Mustang II
VOX AD30VT
--
MXR Super Badass Distortion>Boss CE-5>Boss OC-3> ???
Last edited by boblittle at May 14, 2015,
#17
Quote by brenmyster


Mental. No word. hahaha. You've enlighten me. 'Understand Something' hahahahahah, brilliant. 'This is something that newbs never get' even better, hahahhhahahahaha. Maybe stop playing your guitar through a line 6 'my first amp' before you call people newbs.



Uh...right.
Best of luck to you.
#18
Quote by brenmyster

Mental. No word. hahaha. You've enlighten me. 'Understand Something' hahahahahah, brilliant. 'This is something that newbs never get' even better, hahahhhahahahaha. Maybe stop playing your guitar through a line 6 'my first amp' before you call people newbs.


You might not like what he said, and you might not like how he said it, but he's probably been gigging longer than you've been alive...and has better gear than you and I combined.

I think I understand what you're trying to do, but unless you can find a pedal that will allow you to set a random range of delay, I'm not sure how you're going to reduce how 'tight' your bass signal sounds. (And if you found said pedal, you would want to run it on your guitar signal, not the bass. You probably don't want the bass lagging the guitar.)
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at May 14, 2015,
#19
Quote by brenmyster
Going back to my original question. So there isn't a pedal that can give the bass single any space?


I don't know, off hand, of a *pedal* that will do that.

But there are certainly pro audio gizmos that will. Unfortunately, they tend to be pricey. These are designed to provide synchronization of speaker arrays (in this mode they'll provide a "distance" model that can get down to a .01ms resolution) that are different distances from the audience or for correcting for temperature (air density) changes to the speed of sound. There are versions that are used to sync audio to video that can be used in this way as well. Most of them are rack units, but you can find them for somewhere in the $300 range used. Best thing to do is to find one that does what you want and then hunt down a used one; as rack units they'll generally be in pretty good condition.

The only problem with these is that they're very precise, and I'm thinking that what you're looking for might be a bit more "random" approach, as if the bass player were slightly off-time late now and then, and off-time early now and again. I haven't worked with these recently, but it might be possible to modify one to randomize the delay parameters. Again, a good pro audio engineer might be where you'd want to go to get a good answer on this.
#20
*Headscratch*

Hmmm. Too bad you don't have a keyboard player; I was just poking around on my Korg Kronos X and found something that would maybe do what you're looking for (you can actually feed the bass signal into the Korg and tweak it real time before sending it back out). OTOH, a Kronos X is a $3500 chunk. And if you had one already, you probably won't be playing bass <G>.
#21
The Morpheus Dive Bomber might be more fun than a standard octave pedal. Of course, it would also mean you'd be deciding on whether you're playing more bass or guitar notes, continuously...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDRtoEpcCuc&sns=em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTbtU81ZhD8&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwAsYAKzQUA&sns=em
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#22
Even if it was possible to double a guitar and get a perfect bass sound out of something you're still missing what a real bass player adds to a song. If your bass player only played root notes following the guitar chords then he didn't play well and it might not have been a great loss but a good bass player adds another important dimension to the band and a texture that you won't be able to duplicate on a guitar by splitting the signal and running it through anything. Bass players play bass lines that are just as important as any other instrument (on some songs they add lines that are the most important part of the song). Three guitars no matter how good they are can't replace a real live bass.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at May 15, 2015,