Poll: should medical stuff be cheaper?
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View poll results: should medical stuff be cheaper?
nah keep it the same
1 3%
nah it should cost more
3 8%
yeh
34 89%
Voters: 38.
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#1
I've never really understood why doctors and surgeries and stuff of that nature costs so much, or even is allowed to cost so much. I mean yeah, doctors and surgeons are hard to come by. And med school isn't cheap either. But it's always felt a bit like monopolizing.
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#2
Cheaper to who? The hospitals when buying equipment/hiring staff? Or to the public?

If the former - nurses and doctors already work for a low wage relative to their skill set, outside of private healthcare and certain types of doctor/surgeon.

If the latter - only really applies to the US, as you can't get cheaper than 'free' for the majority of the developed world.
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#4
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Cheaper to who? The hospitals when buying equipment/hiring staff? Or to the public?

If the former - nurses and doctors already work for a low wage relative to their skill set, outside of private healthcare and certain types of doctor/surgeon.

If the latter - only really applies to the US, as you can't get cheaper than 'free' for the majority of the developed world.

Latter. Can you really get healthcare free in other countries?
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#7
ikr? If I could afford all them fancy doctor doohickies, I wouldn't have to be cauterizing all these bullet holes in me.
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#8
I think doctors should be paid extra to try to fix your brain, and figure out why you ask such dumb questions
.
#9
Quote by CaptainCanti
I've never really understood why doctors and surgeries and stuff of that nature costs so much, or even is allowed to cost so much.

capitalizm yeh

I'd venture to guess that it's because

a. it isn't regulated by the government,
b. because of (a), there are higher administrative costs to healthcare,
c. doctors are experts, and you always have to pay experts more. Med school isn't cheap,
d. medical equipment is really expensive,
e. malpractice


I agree that medical and healthcare costs are very expensive, and in a capitalistic society, a disease can really ruin someone's life financially. But I'm a libtard, what do I know?

Quote by CaptainCanti
Latter. Can you really get healthcare free in other countries?

Have you really never heard of universal healthcare?
Last edited by chrismendiola at May 14, 2015,
#10
Everything should be cheaper. Or just free. Why even have money?
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#12
Quote by CaptainCanti
Latter. Can you really get healthcare free in other countries?


No, "Free" Healthcare doesn't exist. Anywhere. It's a political misnaming designed to deceive.

It may not be paid for at the point of service, nor directly by the individual receiving the care, but it's still being paid for.

And provider labor cost isn't the most significant cost in Health Care by a large margin. Note that the article linked above that claims that Doctor salaries are to blame only quotes raw numbers, but doesn't both to put them in context.

To put it in context, the 58 Billion that he bemoans is 1.8125% of the total US healthcare spend, hardly the lions share.
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Last edited by Arby911 at May 14, 2015,
#13
hello i would like morphine to cost five cents per litre.
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#14
Doctors I feel should be allowed a big salary for the most part. Most jobs you can get at work being a bit hungover or tired. You might make 10 speling mistakes on a meeting report big whoop. A doctor however often has one shot, and it must be perfect, cause there's no ctrl-Z option on a severed limb.

Doctors have to be on top of their game and require near perfection in some medical procedures. People getting run over and being near death also happens randomly. You can be eating your lunch, and next minute you are with a scalpel in someone's ribcage performing a surgery against the clock.

However, do some earn too much? Probably, being lazy is a human trait, and some can do it very "strategically" and efficiently as far as workload>effort>salary goes, but it's imo one of the least worst out their, compared to some other jobs.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at May 14, 2015,
#15
When you get charged $5000 for some crappy scan, 2 shots of weak pain reliever, sitting in a hospital bed for 3 hours AFTER SITTING IN THE WAITING ROOM DOUBLED OVER IN PAIN FOR 6 ****ING HOURS WITH KIDNEY STONES You might want to change your mind if you think they should charge more.


Edit:
To post below me.
In the above instance, I saw the doctor for maybe 3 minutes.

But, I do see you point in what they have to go through to become doctors.
Last edited by CodeMonk at May 14, 2015,
#16
After seeing what doctors have to go through compared to the average person, they deserve to be paid significantly more than pretty much any profession on average.

Plus the fact that they pretty much start their career half a mill in the hole doesn't help either. Subsidizing med school tuition for docs would allow their salaries to get knocked down a bit. "Free" healthcare cannot and will not succeed in the US.
#17
Quote by CaptainCanti
I've never really understood why doctors and surgeries and stuff of that nature costs so much, or even is allowed to cost so much. I mean yeah, doctors and surgeons are hard to come by. And med school isn't cheap either. But it's always felt a bit like monopolizing.



Other countries with similar quality medical care cost less.

All medical facilities and everything else has costs. Scalpels, light bulbs, water and stuff and labor for workers .

The problem is the cost of education.

Any sort of education beyond high school is going to put you in debt (slavery) unless your parents are wealthy or you are in the top 5-10% of your class for whatever reason and you get accepted for scholarships, which are often partial.

Not to mention med school. The primary medical education universities pass down an elitist system from professor to student.

This society has run for too long on the paradigm that was person is superior to another. Sports/American Idol type programs (key word there) have come to strip the masses of real cognitive thought and reduced them to comparing strength and personal skill down to fractions of a percentile.

And for what?


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#18
because like fkn everything in the west, health care is first and foremost a BUSINESS and therefore primarily exists as an industry to make money. the individual doctors and nurses are very often in it for the right reasons ("i became a doctor for the money" said no veteran doctor ever) but the industry itself is regulated and operated in a way that forces high costs--whether through insurance, private, or subsidized.
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#19
I love that TS is shocked by free health care. (Places exist outside the US, TS, thank god eh)
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#20
Quote by Acϵ♠
because like fkn everything in the west, health care is first and foremost a BUSINESS and therefore primarily exists as an industry to make money. the individual doctors and nurses are very often in it for the right reasons ("i became a doctor for the money" said no veteran doctor ever) but the industry itself is regulated and operated in a way that forces high costs--whether through insurance, private, or subsidized.



Preach it!
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#21
Quote by Fat Lard
I think doctors should be paid extra to try to fix your brain, and figure out why you ask such dumb questions

damn
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#22
Doctors' salaries are not even close to the costs that are passed down to you. They get paid a fair salary for what they do.

Your medical bill is not a reflection of that. Rather, it is a reflection of the medical industry as a whole. It has been widely documented that the material, administrative, and "other" costs are completely arbitrary in regards to accounting. They charge what they do because fuck you, what are you going to do about it? You are absolutely powerless to say no.

That's why I feel while low cost health insurance is desirable, it ultimately masks the real problem: the medical industry has the upper hand on the ultimate demand (life), and they know people will pay just about anything to get life.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#23
Insurance companies' lobbies with the gov't to pay less for the same service as people too. Also, what, you expect hospitals to downsize or something? No way, we need all of these beds.

Also, somebody's gotta pay for all these beds we don't need rn. And since you're the only one sitting in one..... $500 pls huehue
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#25
Quote by Thrashtastic15
that's definitely one of the inherent issues with privatization of healthcare.


Agreed. It's one of the places where a putative "free market" is not the most efficient answer to the problem.

The problem here in the US is that I'm not convinced our Gov't is competent to do it any better.
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#27
Quote by Arby911
Agreed. It's one of the places where a putative "free market" is not the most efficient answer to the problem.

The problem here in the US is that I'm not convinced our Gov't is competent to do it any better.

To be fair the reason why the American government probably isn't competent enough to do a very good job is pretty similar. Far too much corruption and greed dictating policy.
#28
Doctors are indeed highly qualified people with a lot of responsibility and a lot of stress. A typical doctor apparently earns £100k? That seems like a lot, but these are valuable people in our society. I think however Nurses and support staff should be paid more, at the expense of a proportion doctors salaries.

The question should be, why are medical practitioners paid less than bankers?

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#29
Quote by seanlang01
"Should x be cheaper?"

This is such a dumb question.

"Could doctors/medical stuff be cheaper?"

there, fixed it for you bb

but real talk doctors deserved to be paid a good salary. same with educators and other such areas of significant importance to the general well-being of society. if you don't make sure that the financial benefit is there the best qualified and intelligent individuals will not flock to these positions, the competition will be lessened and the standards will slip or there will be shortages. especially for doctors/surgeons considering how demanding and stressful the work is relative to other fields. the payment is justified & that is not where the financial issues are. hmu.
Last edited by Thrashtastic15 at May 14, 2015,
#30
Quote by Thrashtastic15
To be fair the reason why the American government probably isn't competent enough to do a very good job is pretty similar. Far too much corruption and greed dictating policy.


I'll agree with the greed, but there's surprisingly little corruption. Granted we could (and should) do better, but I think the perception outstrips the reality.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results
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#31
Doctors definitely deserve high pay for their on-call hours/job stress/difficulty/societal benefit/etc, but holy damn...


they don't need to be writing on 'check the blood pressure/etc after the nurse just did' onto their billable hours.
.
#32
Quote by Fat Lard
I think doctors should be paid extra to try to fix your brain, and figure out why you ask such dumb questions


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#33
Quote by Arby911
I'll agree with the greed, but there's surprisingly little corruption. Granted we could (and should) do better, but I think the perception outstrips the reality.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

I'm not really sure how we got to the surprisingly little corruption conclusion to be honest. Sure, it's not quite Montreal and from a global perspective isn't particularly corrupt. But there is still pretty widespread corruption in the sense that politicians are heavily influenced by corporate money because they require the funding to maintain their positions. This mandatory influence of ideology in order to acquire political power obviously then has an influence on policy and how the country is run. Is this not corruption or am I missing something here?

This is also definitely not strictly an American issue as well.
#34
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I'm not really sure how we got to the surprisingly little corruption conclusion to be honest. Sure, it's not quite Montreal and from a global perspective isn't particularly corrupt. But there is still pretty widespread corruption in the sense that politicians are heavily influenced by corporate money because they require the funding to maintain their positions. This mandatory influence of ideology in order to acquire political power obviously then has an influence on policy and how the country is run. Is this not corruption or am I missing something here?

This is also definitely not strictly an American issue as well.

Nope that's legal and called 'lobbying' so it's perfectly okay.


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#35
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Nope that's legal and called 'lobbying' so it's perfectly okay.


>tfw Citizens United rulings to exhibit corrupt practices end up making them worse
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at May 14, 2015,
#36
For what services?

Basic shit, like to keep you healthy? Heck yeah.

Services to fix shit that you ****ed up from not being healthy?

Sorry, payup sucka!!
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#37
You think paying to preserve a life is expensive, try paying to have one ended. And shit, after reading a few of these posts I may have to start saving up again.
Last edited by wafflesyrup at May 14, 2015,
#38
Quote by Fat Lard

they don't need to be writing on 'check the blood pressure/etc after the nurse just did' onto their billable hours.



There are reasons that's done, btw, and fairly legitimate ones at that.
#39
Quote by CaptainCanti
Latter. Can you really get healthcare free in other countries?

Its costs borne by the government. Some places put a coverage cap. It's still incredibly expensive regardless
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#40
Quote by Thrashtastic15
To be fair the reason why the American government probably isn't competent enough to do a very good job is pretty similar. Far too much corruption and greed dictating policy.


That's the problem with career politics.

Even Hitler said it's a system destined to fail, as anyone who would get to that level is an inherent opportunist.
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