#1
hello guys

ive been learning a few licks

and i was wendering how can i transform them to mine ?

i mean if a lick is in a key , following specific chords ,

and im in another key playing other chords ,

how can i transform it ?

( ps : i know the freatboard and the keys all some music theory )

for example , if a lick has been played in the key of c , where its following An fM chords and d minor

and im playing in a d key , wich has a dmajor# Gmajor# Amajor# Gminor

how can i transforme the lick ?

another question ,

in sweet home alabama , there is a part where he plays E F F# and the song is in G

in the video the dude says that its a blues lick , i didnt catch that , ( since i dont that much about blues )

thanks
#2
The Sweet Home Alabama is less of a blues thing and more kind of an old country thing where you use chromatic passing tones. It's commonly done with hammers for the chromatic notes on the G string and then a note picked on the E string with the middle finger. Southern rock bands like Skynyrd, .38 Special, the Outlaws, etc take a lot of influence from country guitar playing and so elements like that tend to pop up freauently. I would tab out a couple of examples expanding on the topic but I am on my phone right now. I'll throw something together later.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#3
Quote by theogonia777
The Sweet Home Alabama is less of a blues thing and more kind of an old country thing where you use chromatic passing tones. It's commonly done with hammers for the chromatic notes on the G string and then a note picked on the E string with the middle finger. Southern rock bands like Skynyrd, .38 Special, the Outlaws, etc take a lot of influence from country guitar playing and so elements like that tend to pop up freauently. I would tab out a couple of examples expanding on the topic but I am on my phone right now. I'll throw something together later.


thanks ,

chromatic passing tones ?

whats that ?
#4
Passing tones are non-chord tones that are used to move between chord tones. In this case they are chromatic notes. So the notes E-F-F#-D (with the first three at frets 9, 10, and 11 9n the G string and D on the 10th fret of the first string) in the key of G roughly outline a D chord with the E and F as passing tones with the E being the second in your D, and the F being a chromatic accidental that does not naturally occur in G. Next you could follow up with the same thing played down a step to outline a C chord D-Eb-E-C. I'll head down to my computer to tab it out.

Okay, so...

The first beat outlines a D, then C, Bm, and then the last two eighth notes of the first measure are Bbm and Am before going to a G in the next major (the chromatic iii-biii-ii-I ending is very common in old country). The 3rd and 4th measures use the same idea to outline the whole I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viidim-I in G.
Attachments:
chromatic country licks.gp5
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Last edited by theogonia777 at May 17, 2015,
#5
Quote by theogonia777
Passing tones are non-chord tones that are used to move between chord tones. In this case they are chromatic notes. So the notes E-F-F#-D (with the first three at frets 9, 10, and 11 9n the G string and D on the 10th fret of the first string) in the key of G roughly outline a D chord with the E and F as passing tones with the E being the second in your D, and the F being a chromatic accidental that does not naturally occur in G. Next you could follow up with the same thing played down a step to outline a C chord D-Eb-E-C. I'll head down to my computer to tab it out.


to be honest i didnt get it , i though that passing tones should be in the same key of the chords , even if they are not in the chords , but F , isnt in the key of G neither in the chords ,

and what about the first question ?
#6
Quote by sayed.alghilan
to be honest i didnt get it , i though that passing tones should be in the same key of the chords , even if they are not in the chords , but F , isnt in the key of G neither in the chords ,

and what about the first question ?


Passing tones are usually from the same key, but sometimes they are chromatic accidentals, particularly in genres like blues, country, jazz, and other genres commonly influenced by those. I edited the previous post and added a tab of a couple of licks.

As for the first part... I'm not sure what you are asking exactly. Do you mean how do you play a lick in a different key? In that case, you're just raising or lowering the whole lick.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#7
Quote by theogonia777
Passing tones are usually from the same key, but sometimes they are chromatic accidentals, particularly in genres like blues, country, jazz, and other genres commonly influenced by those. I edited the previous post and added a tab of a couple of licks.

As for the first part... I'm not sure what you are asking exactly. Do you mean how do you play a lick in a different key? In that case, you're just raising or lowering the whole lick.


i got it , thanks for your effort , it doesnt have to be 100% correct to sound good ,

as for the first question , yes , i do the raising and lowering thing ,

but the lick's construction is bassed on a specific chords progression ,

and i want to use it in another chords progression ,

for example ,

a lick in the key of C , that follows : F Am g

and im playing in a d key : d# G# A# Gm

, if a raise the lick , it would sound nice with G Bm A ( the raising )

but not with my chords ( and im playing in a d key : d# G# A# Gm)

i hope that you got what i'm saying

thank you
Last edited by sayed.alghilan at May 17, 2015,
#8
If the lick is one that helps transition from one chord to another it will usually only for the same type of transition, which can be transposed as you say, but won't work as well over a change that isn't the same thing but moved higher or lower. Sometimes you can take the general idea of the lick and move some notes around to get it to work though. To do that you have to look at how the lick is interacting with the chords.

Say you had something like this over Am and G
  Am                G
|----------------------------
|-----------5----------------
|-------5-----7-6-5-4---7----
|-7-5-7---7-----------5---5--
|----------------------------
|----------------------------


and wanted something similar over A# and Gm you could do something like this

  A#                 Gm
|----------------------------
|----------------------------
|-------7---10-8-7-6-----7---
|-8-7-8---8----------8-5---5-
|----------------------------
|----------------------------



Just see what the chord tones are in the lick and where the passing tones are and whether or not they're in the scale, then see if you can use that to fit it over the thing you're trying to fit it over. If they're not too far different, like in the above case, it's not too difficult, but if they're wildly different you probably won't get anything even close.

If it's a short lick that's centered on one chord and not a change then that makes things much easier. Just change the notes to match the chord, but keep the same structure.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at May 17, 2015,
#9
The second chord progression you posted is not in the key of D. It is in the key of Eb.

Eb-Ab-Bb-Gm - I-IV-V-iii

Not all licks work over all chord progressions, but usually simple pentatonic licks work over a lot of things. Sometimes you just can't use your favorite lick. Try something else.


I would suggest learning about chord functions and what chords can be found in what keys. Also, learn about scale degrees. That will help a lot with transposing. That way if you have a lick in C major that goes like A G Eb E C, you can just think in scale degrees. In C major the lick would be 6 5 b3 3 1. To move it to another key, let's say Eb major, you just look at the scale degrees. 6 5 b3 3 1 in Eb major would be C Bb Gb G Eb. That's how transposing works. You figure out the scale degrees of your melody, and then figure out what notes the scale degrees are in your new key.

We can transpose that lick to any key. In G major it would be E D Bb B G. In Bb major it would be G F Db D Bb.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#10
Quote by The4thHorsemen
If the lick is one that helps transition from one chord to another it will usually only for the same type of transition, which can be transposed as you say, but won't work as well over a change that isn't the same thing but moved higher or lower. Sometimes you can take the general idea of the lick and move some notes around to get it to work though. To do that you have to look at how the lick is interacting with the chords.

Say you had something like this over Am and G
  Am                G
|----------------------------
|-----------5----------------
|-------5-----7-6-5-4---7----
|-7-5-7---7-----------5---5--
|----------------------------
|----------------------------


and wanted something similar over A# and Gm you could do something like this

  A#                 Gm
|----------------------------
|----------------------------
|-------7---10-8-7-6-----7---
|-8-7-8---8----------8-5---5-
|----------------------------
|----------------------------



Just see what the chord tones are in the lick and where the passing tones are and whether or not they're in the scale, then see if you can use that to fit it over the thing you're trying to fit it over. If they're not too far different, like in the above case, it's not too difficult, but if they're wildly different you probably won't get anything even close.

If it's a short lick that's centered on one chord and not a change then that makes things much easier. Just change the notes to match the chord, but keep the same structure.


wow , thank you , but how can i determine which notes is the transition note

and especially to what chord these notes belong to ,

for example in back in black he plays : Eminor D A chords

then he plays a lick : G E D B A B A G

another example : in sweet home alabama

he plays D C G chords

then he plays a lick : A B D E D B A G

i cant find the relation between the chords and the lick , in a specific order . any idea ?


And is there another subject i should give it more important that would make my phrasing better ?

and thank you for your effort
#11
Minor pentatonic works over almost anything (at least in rock music). The Back in Black lick is just a descending E minor pentatonic scale. It's really not related to any chord, it's just a minor pentatonic lick, played using the minor pentatonic that has the same tonic as the key.

It is played over nothing - there are no chords in the background, but the key is still E. That's why E minor pentatonic works. There are no chords behind it (well, you could argue that it is actually played over an A major chord, but the chord isn't ringing), but if they played the same lick in Eb, it would just sound off, because we are still in the key of E. And in the key of E Em pentatonic usually works pretty well.

The Sweet Home Alabama lick is played over a G major chord, and you may notice that the notes form the G major pentatonic scale (G A B D E). They are mostly chord tones (B D and G) and then there are a couple of non chord tones (the 2nd - A - and the 6th - E). But you can always play the major pentatonic scale over a major chord. If you are playing over G major chord, you can always use notes in G major pentatonic.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#12
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Minor pentatonic works over almost anything (at least in rock music). The Back in Black lick is just a descending E minor pentatonic scale. It's really not related to any chord, it's just a minor pentatonic lick, played using the minor pentatonic that has the same tonic as the key.

It is played over nothing - there are no chords in the background, but the key is still E. That's why E minor pentatonic works. There are no chords behind it (well, you could argue that it is actually played over an A major chord, but the chord isn't ringing), but if they played the same lick in Eb, it would just sound off, because we are still in the key of E. And in the key of E Em pentatonic usually works pretty well.

The Sweet Home Alabama lick is played over a G major chord, and you may notice that the notes form the G major pentatonic scale (G A B D E). They are mostly chord tones (B D and G) and then there are a couple of non chord tones (the 2nd - A - and the 6th - E). But you can always play the major pentatonic scale over a major chord. If you are playing over G major chord, you can always use notes in G major pentatonic.


thaks , that makes sence , but the thing is , when some one is start playing ,

i dont think of it like ( he plays a major chord so maybe a minor penta would work )

i just calculate the flats and sharps in the chords he playing , find the right scale and memorize the notes on that scale and start playing ,

i didnt get it when you said play minor over major , isnt just a key signature thing ?
#13
I didn't say minor over major chord. It's an A major chord, but the key is E. In a key there are many chords. You can play the key scale over every chord in the key. For example if your progression is, let's say, A-F#m-Bm7-E7, we are in the key of A major, and you can play A major over all chords, because all of the chords are diatonic to A major. You play A major over the F#m and Bm chords too. The key doesn't change, the scale doesn't (have to) change.

Minor pentatonic does work over a major chord progression, if you are after a more bluesy sound. It works in rock music (not always, but in this case it does). The Back in Black progression is E-D-A, the key is E. The D major chord is not part of the key signature, but a bVII chord is really common, especially in rock music.

But yeah, minor pentatonic works pretty well over almost anything (especially in rock music). So if the key is E, you can use the E minor pentatonic.

But the Em pentatonic doesn't even clash with the A major chord tones - A C# E. There is no C# or C natural in Em pentatonic, so nothing will clash with the third. Both A and E are part of the Em pentatonic scale. That's why Em pentatonic works pretty well over A major chord. But why it also works is because we are in the key of E, so we use some sort of an E scale.


BTW, do you have two accounts?
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#14
I guess I'll speak up and suggest that you start a lot further back, from where you are, and make sure you understand music and how things connect.

Have you ever thought about getting a private teacher? The responses you give to the answers people have given suggest that you're not even ready for this level yet. You have given answers that show effort, so I'm not shooting you down here, but there are very visible gaps in your bucket and the answers are flowing right out, and you need to fix those holes before even trying to ask these questions - and actually, by fixing them, you wont have these questions any longer.

Good luck!

Best,

Sean
#15
Pentatonic scales work because they generalize the harmony in a key to the tonic triad. Any chord progression in a key can be reduced to its tonic by using a pentatonic scale based off said triad.

When you rip over Maggara's progression with A major pentatonic, you are just playing a big huge embellished Amaj triad for everything.

Or perhaps you are just playing OVER an Amaj triad the whole time....

Just as all those chords revolve around Amaj, all your notes do as well, so it checks out.

Yes, this is an unnecessarily complex explanation. Maggara's advice is rock solid, listen to that.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#16
Quote by Sean0913
I guess I'll speak up and suggest that you start a lot further back, from where you are, and make sure you understand music and how things connect.

Have you ever thought about getting a private teacher? The responses you give to the answers people have given suggest that you're not even ready for this level yet. You have given answers that show effort, so I'm not shooting you down here, but there are very visible gaps in your bucket and the answers are flowing right out, and you need to fix those holes before even trying to ask these questions - and actually, by fixing them, you wont have these questions any longer.

Good luck!

Best,

Sean

hi , i kept reading your comment alot of times ,

it's really killing me x)

why ?

i live in north africa , in a country :

1/ that speaks french ( music sources are in english especially youtube / books )

2/ where music is dead , exept some traditional shit

3/ where there is no music schools , no music public teachers neither private

4/ where people dont use visa to pay only cash

in conclusion: i though of getting a private teacher ( in real life or online) ,

i even tought of paid courses ,

but i cant , despite the fact that i have enough money for that

+ i start learning english 4 years ago so i can learn guitar from youtube
and as a source of information , that's why my english isnt that good

what im trying to say , i think that youtube cant offer me much more in such a level ( im not saying im good , or fine )

thats why i'm trying desperitly to analyse people's music to understand how they think

thats why i asked about licks ,

i love music , and i wanna get alot better ,


so if you got any other advicec rather than having a private teacher it would be awesome
#17
First of all much respect. Teaching yourself English is not easy. You've done a very good job at explaining yourself.

For someone like you, in your situation and country, there are ways to learn this. I asked about a private teacher, not knowing your situation.

For example, I have been privately mentoring players here for years. It's totally free. But the first thing I'd need to do is identify what you understand and what you don't so that I could see where the holes are.

Maybe share what you feel like you know already, or I could send you an assessment that would help reveal those holes. Only then could I suggest an approach that you might pursue and self-study, gradually filling out those holes in your knowledge, and check progress with questions, here or via PM.

I'm sure not just me, but many people here would give you sincere advice and support along the way. You'd be doing the work and we'd help answer the questions. People here respect those who put in the effort.

Wish you the best. I would be happy to help where I can!

Best,

Sean

Quote by aselfmman
hi , i kept reading your comment alot of times ,

it's really killing me x)

why ?

i live in north africa , in a country :

1/ that speaks french ( music sources are in english especially youtube / books )

2/ where music is dead , exept some traditional shit

3/ where there is no music schools , no music public teachers neither private

4/ where people dont use visa to pay only cash

in conclusion: i though of getting a private teacher ( in real life or online) ,

i even tought of paid courses ,

but i cant , despite the fact that i have enough money for that

+ i start learning english 4 years ago so i can learn guitar from youtube
and as a source of information , that's why my english isnt that good

what im trying to say , i think that youtube cant offer me much more in such a level ( im not saying im good , or fine )

thats why i'm trying desperitly to analyse people's music to understand how they think

thats why i asked about licks ,

i love music , and i wanna get alot better ,


so if you got any other advicec rather than having a private teacher it would be awesome
#18
Quote by Sean0913
First of all much respect. Teaching yourself English is not easy. You've done a very good job at explaining yourself.

For someone like you, in your situation and country, there are ways to learn this. I asked about a private teacher, not knowing your situation.

For example, I have been privately mentoring players here for years. It's totally free. But the first thing I'd need to do is identify what you understand and what you don't so that I could see where the holes are.

Maybe share what you feel like you know already, or I could send you an assessment that would help reveal those holes. Only then could I suggest an approach that you might pursue and self-study, gradually filling out those holes in your knowledge, and check progress with questions, here or via PM.

I'm sure not just me, but many people here would give you sincere advice and support along the way. You'd be doing the work and we'd help answer the questions. People here respect those who put in the effort.

Wish you the best. I would be happy to help where I can!

Best,

Sean


thank you very much , reading this was a relieving for me ,

i didn't understand ( here or via PM.)

but i can give you an idea about what i know

heres what ive done till now :


1)
i learned chords very well , how to play them

but only minor and major ounces , cause i dont where to use to other once

like major 7 , but i know how are they constructed ( from the scales )

2)
i learned how to play arpeggios ( using the chords )

and i didn't find a problem with strumming

cause i used to play an instrument that looks like drums ( small african version )

so i developed a great sense of rhythm with i was a kid


3)
i learned the notes on all the guitar ,

i trained myself , i know where all the G's are , and so on ,

i start to imagine the guitar as places , low places and high places


4)
i learned scales , and i found it very easy cause i knew the notes ,

i look at them as pictures , i mean the shapes , but i dont like to use them alot

cause when i do i feel like im playing like a robot ,

so i use them to start playing , and as a guide if im looking for an escape

5)
i learned key signatures and circle of fifth , how keys work

for example , if a friend played Gm Am Fm i would say those are in the key of c

cause they have the notes on a c major scale ( a minor scale )

if he played Am then C then Dm

i would say : hi , the Dm has an Fsharp , and the rests are in the key of c

whats the key that has Fsharp ? Gm (E Minor )

if he's using a capo , and hes playing Cm D'Minor Fm ,

and the capo is on the fourth fret

i would say , the key in A Minor , and i go 4 half steps , so the key is Csharp minor

thats how i determine the key , and i use the circle of fifth

to know what are the sharps and flats on that key ,

and i start using the scales as a start ,

then i focus on my ears ( avoiding the notes that are not in that key )

5) i start learning licks , and try to relate them with chords ,

for exp , if a lick in following a Gm , i would higher and lower it to another chord

if the lick isn't following any key , i would keep it in mind as a budget

and try out in without thinking in a specific key , maybe it would work

6)
now im reading about blues , and alot of players say the same thing

blues licks are very good for improvising , but i cant get it

if a the blues has its own scales , then is has its own chords , another world

so how can i apply it for a natural chord progression in C for example

7 )
i started to learn how to read music , so i can play a cool piano song for exp

that's would be all i guess , i know it's a mess , i hope you will stay alive after reading it
#19
Hi there!

It sounds like you know what you're talking about, but there's a small communication issue that might confuse some people which I'd like to clear up.

5)
i learned key signatures and circle of fifth , how keys work

for example , if a friend played Gm Am Fm i would say those are in the key of c

cause they have the notes on a c major scale ( a minor scale )

if he played Am then C then Dm

i would say : hi , the Dm has an Fsharp , and the rests are in the key of c

whats the key that has Fsharp ? Gm (E Minor )

if he's using a capo , and hes playing Cm D'Minor Fm ,

and the capo is on the fourth fret

i would say , the key in A Minor , and i go 4 half steps , so the key is Csharp minor

thats how i determine the key , and i use the circle of fifth

to know what are the sharps and flats on that key ,

and i start using the scales as a start ,

then i focus on my ears ( avoiding the notes that are not in that key )

Major and Minor both start with the letter m, but when we say Am or Fm it means MINOR.

On its own, F means F major and if you want to be more clear you can say Fmaj.

The notes of the chords C, Am and F belong to the C major scale.
A Dmaj chord has an F# in it. Dm has an F natural
The key of G major has the same notes as Em.

It seems from your post that you understand this stuff, I just wanted to clear up the naming issue!
Last edited by Declan87 at May 24, 2015,
#20
OK, I follow most of that.

Do you know what Diatonc Harmony is?

Based upon where you are, I would say that the top three things you might want to work on, are determining the key, using your ear, diatonic harmony, and cadences. It's as simple as this: If a song you were listening to were to end right now, what note would sound to end it. Start as simple as that.

Once you find that key, using the notes you know on the neck, then let's assume that most of the time, things are either Major or Minor keys.

Do you know the chords built from the major scale? Diatonic harmony? If I said list the Diatonic chords/triads in A Major, would you be able to?

Best,

Sean
#21
Quote by Sean0913
OK, I follow most of that.

Do you know what Diatonc Harmony is?

Based upon where you are, I would say that the top three things you might want to work on, are determining the key, using your ear, diatonic harmony, and cadences. It's as simple as this: If a song you were listening to were to end right now, what note would sound to end it. Start as simple as that.

Once you find that key, using the notes you know on the neck, then let's assume that most of the time, things are either Major or Minor keys.

Do you know the chords built from the major scale? Diatonic harmony? If I said list the Diatonic chords/triads in A Major, would you be able to?

Best,

Sean


well i dont know these terms , but i think youre right im gonna ket deep in all of what you've said , especially determining the key i think im gonna try other ways rather than calculation notes ill be back , thanks for the subjects
#22
Quote by Declan87
Hi there!

It sounds like you know what you're talking about, but there's a small communication issue that might confuse some people which I'd like to clear up.


Major and Minor both start with the letter m, but when we say Am or Fm it means MINOR.

On its own, F means F major and if you want to be more clear you can say Fmaj.

The notes of the chords C, Am and F belong to the C major scale.
A Dmaj chord has an F# in it. Dm has an F natural
The key of G major has the same notes as Em.

It seems from your post that you understand this stuff, I just wanted to clear up the naming issue!

thank you , i'm sorry i should pay much attention to this from now on ,