#1
Heya fellow guitarist & gear enthusiasts!

So, making a long story short, I've been trying to get a more consistent sound when I play live and perform with my band. I've started getting tired of always having to mic up my amp.. Often there wasn't a lot of time to do it, so often it sounded bad..
So, I decided to go on a quest to find an easier way to go about this - and still being able to sound good..

Normally I use a Fender Strat into a Boss GT-10 and into my Marshall MG100DFX, but then, after a lot of research and asking questions, I tried running my GT-10 directly to the PA during rehearsal - man, it blew my mind! The built-in amps and cabs on the GT-10 is absolutely amazing! It takes very little tweaking with the knobs and parameters to create a good sound!
I had mixed feelings trying it out, but it ended up giving me a great sound and I've really needed that for a loong time..
I heard a lot of people saying that running a multi effects straight to the PA wouldn't sound good - but I found that it really wasn't true.. Of course it depends on the person and his/her preferences..

I'm gonna try this setup out for a while and try gigging without my amplifier - makes it a lot easier for us to get around!

Eventually I will need a D.I. Box, because of the GT-10 not having balanced output.. But hey, that's totally worth it!

Well, just thought that I'd share this with all you fellow musicians!
Maybe someone out there's facing the same questions or thoughts!

Peace!
#2
Never tried the GT-10, but it's a similar concept to the modeling devices out there, like the Kemper Profiler, Axe FX and Eleven Rack. They can also be run directly into the PA. I'm planning on buying a Kemper Profiler this summer. I still like the idea of micing up my amp, when I play at church.
#3
Going direct is fine until you end up at a club that doesn't have a decent monitoring system, then you'd play without hearing yourself, unless you can use some kind of power wedge.
If you need a DI, there's a stereo passive DI box made by Radial that I can recommend.
Anything over the DFX amp is an improvement
#4
Of course you liked it, you were using one of the worst amps on the planet prior to this.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#5
Quote by Arby911
Of course you liked it, you were using one of the worst amps on the planet prior to this.


Seriously. If you were using standalone effects pedals, you could probably run THAT straight into the PA and sound better than anything run into your MG. Get a good amp, and you'll WANT to go back to miking up.
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#6
Quote by diabolical
Going direct is fine until you end up at a club that doesn't have a decent monitoring system, then you'd play without hearing yourself, unless you can use some kind of power wedge.
If you need a DI, there's a stereo passive DI box made by Radial that I can recommend.
Anything over the DFX amp is an improvement


I already have an IEM setup from my regular live rig, so when I HAVE to go direct I still have those in my ear,

Not sure what you do or how serious are about this sort of stuff, but it makes your back up a life saver when you need it. Best of luck.
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#7
Quote by KG6_Steven
Never tried the GT-10, but it's a similar concept to the modeling devices out there, like the Kemper Profiler, Axe FX and Eleven Rack. They can also be run directly into the PA. I'm planning on buying a Kemper Profiler this summer. I still like the idea of micing up my amp, when I play at church.


Hey!

Yeah, you're right - but the GT-10 is solid and really good. It has never let me down!
Exactly, that's what they're made to do
Oh, nice, that's a good choice - good luck with that, mate!
Well, yeah okay, if you have the time for it, then I can understand!
#8
Quote by diabolical
Going direct is fine until you end up at a club that doesn't have a decent monitoring system, then you'd play without hearing yourself, unless you can use some kind of power wedge.
If you need a DI, there's a stereo passive DI box made by Radial that I can recommend.
Anything over the DFX amp is an improvement


Hmm, well yeah, you're right. But with my band, we always bring our own equipment, so that shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, I have seen those, I'll look a bit more into that!
Hmm, I don't see what you would say that - I really like my Marshall!
Atleast that's my opinion!
#9
Quote by the_bi99man
Seriously. If you were using standalone effects pedals, you could probably run THAT straight into the PA and sound better than anything run into your MG. Get a good amp, and you'll WANT to go back to miking up.


Hmm, I guess I could, but for the kind of music I play with my band I really like the GT-10. It has everything I could possibly need and I don't have to carry a large pedalboard around..
The MG is a good amp, I've never had any problems with it.. I think it sounds good, but of course that's a personal preference...
For now I'll keep going direct
#10
Quote by Katsock
I already have an IEM setup from my regular live rig, so when I HAVE to go direct I still have those in my ear,

Not sure what you do or how serious are about this sort of stuff, but it makes your back up a life saver when you need it. Best of luck.


Oh yeah, I see, that's a good idea, and I've thought of exactly the same thing - when I have got the money for a system like that I'll be buying one

Right now I just have a monitor that's giving me my sound - but yeah, I will buy a IEM system I'm seriously about my playing and what I do, so I'm always trying to improve it!

Thanks!
#11
Well the MG is pretty horrible, and the amp/cab sims are OK at best. I can see why you would prefer the GT-10 over the Marshall.

It is nice to have a light, small back-up though. I lug a POD XT around just in case
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#12
Quote by PedalFreak94
Hmm, well yeah, you're right. But with my band, we always bring our own equipment, so that shouldn't be a problem
Yeah, I have seen those, I'll look a bit more into that!
Hmm, I don't see what you would say that - I really like my Marshall!
Atleast that's my opinion!


Well...ok. If you're happy, you're happy. Tone is subjective and we like what we like. That being said, the fact that you much preferred your sound when you went direct tells me you didn't like it as much as you thought you did.

The problem is that it's not really a Marshall, it's merely a mediocre to poor solid state amp that Marshall slapped their name on. It sounds nothing like any of the amps that made Marshall's legacy and is commonly recognized as the Line 6 Spider of the Marshall lineup.

Believe me this is not mere internet bandwagonning, I own one. It gets used as a place to set my beer...

When you're ready to move up amp-wise, let us know, it's a question that gets answered here on a regular basis.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#13
Quote by Arby911
Well...ok. If you're happy, you're happy. Tone is subjective and we like what we like. That being said, the fact that you much preferred your sound when you went direct tells me you didn't like it as much as you thought you did.

The problem is that it's not really a Marshall, it's merely a mediocre to poor solid state amp that Marshall slapped their name on. It sounds nothing like any of the amps that made Marshall's legacy and is commonly recognized as the Line 6 Spider of the Marshall lineup.

Believe me this is not mere internet bandwagonning, I own one. It gets used as a place to set my beer...

When you're ready to move up amp-wise, let us know, it's a question that gets answered here on a regular basis.
+1. I have an MG too. And I'm selling it for dirt cheap. For the price of an large-watt MG new, there are other options that are much more worthwhile. The small versions might be good for a beginner, but the stacks and larger combos aren't worth it. I feel if you play through a subjectively "better" amp, you'll change your mind about the MG. I can get it to work, but I'd always rather something else.

You might like to use the GT with the MG again, but with a different method. Go straight from guitar to the input of the MG on the clean channel. Get something crisp going, cut a bit of bass maybe and boost the mids and treble on the amp board. Put the GT through the effects loop, that way you're giving the GT a nice-ish signal and the models are just being amplified by the MG's power amp. That's what you would be doing with another amp I presume unless you ditch the models. But you'd still want to compare it to the GT direct.
Last edited by Will Lane at May 28, 2015,
#14
Quote by PedalFreak94

I heard a lot of people saying that running a multi effects straight to the PA wouldn't sound good - but I found that it really wasn't true.. Of course it depends on the person and his/her preferences..

I'm gonna try this setup out for a while and try gigging without my amplifier - makes it a lot easier for us to get around!


There's a LOT of this going around these days <G>.

Most of my amps are getting a bit dusty these days. With a modeler, I'm using full-range powered recording monitors at home, full-range cabinets and a power amp for rehearsals, and direct-to-PA-mixer with a personal wedge or IEM for onstage monitoring. The good news is that this tends to be fairly consistent in each environment and, as you note, requires a lot less hauling.
#15
My GT10 sounds awful going direct when using any amount of OD/distortion, cleans are fine though, congrats on getting yours working for your needs.

A Tech 21 PE60 would work better live with it being smaller & light weight than the MG100, its got a DI on it too, not to mention its louder for its size.
#16
I also have a GT-10 and you can dial it in good, I do some small rehearsals and gigs with it through a friends Bose PA system (those small speaker towers). It sounds surprisingly good for anything other than metal.

Great suggestion on the Tech21!
#17
Quote by PedalFreak94
I heard a lot of people saying that running a multi effects straight to the PA wouldn't sound good - but I found that it really wasn't true.. Of course it depends on the person and his/her preferences..
Quote by steven_ferns84
My GT10 sounds awful going direct when using any amount of OD/distortion, cleans are fine though, congrats on getting yours working for your needs.
I would think when people say that "unit to PA is bad", chances are there were user error issues with setting the unit. In my experience, running distortion in a digital multi unit is never like driving a real amp with distortion, especially if the digital unit doesn't have amp models/ the distortion isn't in front of the model. Running distortion into a delay, for example, can sound pretty messy in a bad way.

Also, a cab-sim direct box helps as well. Cab sims within a digital multi unit can help, but distortion gnarl and messiness can still leak through. Behringer carries the Ultra-G direct box with a cab sim (really a glorified low pass filter IIRC) that helps some, and there are some higher-budget options as well.
#18
I have a GT-100 and I never run it straight into the PA. Why? Because COSM is shit. My RM's are far, far better. Compared to an MG, COSM is ok - but that's because MG's are shite.
It's all relative, man.
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#19
Quote by Cathbard
I have a GT-100 and I never run it straight into the PA. Why? Because COSM is shit. My RM's are far, far better. Compared to an MG, COSM is ok - but that's because MG's are shite.
It's all relative, man.


yea, boss is so far behind the game, especially on MFX, its not even funny. especially the amp models.
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youre just being a jerk man.



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#20
Quote by trashedlostfdup
yea, boss is so far behind the game, especially on MFX, its not even funny. especially the amp models.


Why would you say that? Boss is one of the leading companies to improve their COSM technology and its features?
It's all relative - yeah, that's right - so of course we all have different opinions on what good gear is, but Boss isn't behind on anything..

I didn't make this post to make a big discussion - I just wanted to state what I've found out and what I've been using it for...
#21
Quote by PedalFreak94
Why would you say that? Boss is one of the leading companies to improve their COSM technology and its features?
It's all relative - yeah, that's right - so of course we all have different opinions on what good gear is, but Boss isn't behind on anything..

I didn't make this post to make a big discussion - I just wanted to state what I've found out and what I've been using it for...

If you compare Boss COSM amp/cab models to anyother company like Zoom,Digitech,L6 floor boards their not a good/nice sounding. Now this doesn't mean they are bad per se but they are behind the curve on it. Of course the GT-10 has good FX and this is what saves the GT-10 and the GT-100 and the fact Boss makes some road worthy units.


So what is being said is for the money if you want amp modeling the GT10- is not what myself or others here would get.

But your right, different strokes for different folks
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#22
Quote by Will Lane
I would think when people say that "unit to PA is bad", chances are there were user error issues with setting the unit. In my experience, running distortion in a digital multi unit is never like driving a real amp with distortion, especially if the digital unit doesn't have amp models/ the distortion isn't in front of the model. Running distortion into a delay, for example, can sound pretty messy in a bad way.

Also, a cab-sim direct box helps as well. Cab sims within a digital multi unit can help, but distortion gnarl and messiness can still leak through. Behringer carries the Ultra-G direct box with a cab sim (really a glorified low pass filter IIRC) that helps some, and there are some higher-budget options as well.

Well there is an easier way to improve on the GT units by adding an external amp+cab sim unit into its effects loop when going direct. A tech 21 character series pedal would do wonders for gainier sounds while still keeping everything compact on the floor. Even cheaper would be to use a joyo clone of those pedals but since the gig is on the line, a used original would be a better investment.


The cab sims are a disaster in the GTs, a external cab sim would help but behringer gi100 might not be something to rely upon live. Palmer makes some, Lodigy EPSi is another good option. Here's a vid of Jack Thammarat using the pdi09 with the gt8: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5eq_-UM7ETY
#23
Quote by PedalFreak94
Why would you say that? Boss is one of the leading companies to improve their COSM technology and its features?
It's all relative - yeah, that's right - so of course we all have different opinions on what good gear is, but Boss isn't behind on anything..

I didn't make this post to make a big discussion - I just wanted to state what I've found out and what I've been using it for...


no need to freak out. or get butt hurt

i don't see how you could say that they are 'the' forerunner. the effects are ok, but the amp sims are pathetic. ten years ago, boss was on top, or close to. Line 6 came up fast and IMO has earned a place at the top. Line 6 is winning in the amp sims department and in my opinion, as well as others.

you like it. yes you have a right to. but you might be wrong.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#24
Quote by steven_ferns84
Well there is an easier way to improve on the GT units by adding an external amp+cab sim unit into its effects loop when going direct. A tech 21 character series pedal would do wonders for gainier sounds while still keeping everything compact on the floor. Even cheaper would be to use a joyo clone of those pedals but since the gig is on the line, a used original would be a better investment.


The cab sims are a disaster in the GTs, a external cab sim would help but behringer gi100 might not be something to rely upon live. Palmer makes some, Lodigy EPSi is another good option. Here's a vid of Jack Thammarat using the pdi09 with the gt8: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5eq_-UM7ETY


So, if I were to only use the amps in the GT-10, but turning the cab sims off and then using a device like the Palmer PDI-09 - that would make the sound more realistic and better?
Would that be the way to do it?
#25
Quote by PedalFreak94
So, if I were to only use the amps in the GT-10, but turning the cab sims off and then using a device like the Palmer PDI-09 - that would make the sound more realistic and better?
Would that be the way to do it?

No need to spend that type of money

Use what you like and make your sound. Your tastes will change over the years (trust me!)and you will figure out what you need/want to make your sound a reality

I used to hate Marshall amps, now every amp I own is based on a Marshall circuit

Now isn't that some shit
2002 PRS CE22
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
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#26
Quote by PedalFreak94
So, if I were to only use the amps in the GT-10, but turning the cab sims off and then using a device like the Palmer PDI-09 - that would make the sound more realistic and better?
Would that be the way to do it?


To be honest with you the clean sounds on the GT series are very good and you don't need to do anything to them. The higher gain stuff gets kinda iffy and either requires a lot of tweaks going through the sound system you're going to use. The half gain/crunch settings are also ok going the way they are.

So that leaves you trying out a few things. You can get the Palmer, or H&K Redbox strapped on the output before going into PA. I think some of the Sansamp boxes also have speaker emulation where you can defeat the box effect, like the TRI-OD has for example, when everything is turned off works only as speaker emulator. That one you can add on the fx loop. The Redbox you can put in last and feed that to PA.

Remember the GT units have a lot of things you can tweak, so people are often getting confused with what they're doing and end up slagging the unit.

If you want to stay on cab emulation you have these options as your last stage (Output settings, I think both GT-10 and GT-100):

JC-120 Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a Roland JC-120 guitar amp.

SMALL AMP Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to a
small guitar amp.

COMBO AMP
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a combo-type guitar amp (i.e., a single
unit that contains the amp and speaker) other than
the JC-120.
For some types of guitar amps, the JC-120 setting
might produce better results.

STACK AMP
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a stack-type guitar amp (i.e., one in
which the amp and speaker are separate units).

JC-120 RETURN Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of the JC-120.

COMBO RETURN Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of a combo-type guitar amp.

STACK RETURN
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of a stack-type guitar amp. You should
also choose the STACK RETURN setting if you're
using a guitar power amp together with a speaker
cabinet.

LINE/PHONES
Choose this setting if you're using headphones, or if
the GT-100 is connected direct to PA.

So these options here should be what you tweak first, also keep in mind that you won't always get the best results going into your designated amp. I've had to use "Combo Return" on a JCM900 head which was clearly "Stack return"

You could also do another trick - add a pedal that has speaker emulation built in, Sansamp GT-2 and others, H&K Tubeman , Blackstar HT - Dual , Mesa V-Twin and defeat the amp+cab emulation completely for some patches.

Now, for the high gain some people have blended two sounds and applied drastic eq and have made the high gain sound good, there are some of these samples on Youtube.

As far as the GT-10 I know that Jennifer Batten toured with one for all her sounds for about 2 years while she was with Jeff Beck, also Glenn Drover recorded his "Metalusion" album with one and I can't say either of them was getting bad sounds.
I personally couldn't hear a place where you'd say..."ewww that digital emulation sounds like crap, the Boss COSM is so behind the times"

You need to know what you're doing, period
#27
Quote by diabolical
To be honest with you the clean sounds on the GT series are very good and you don't need to do anything to them. The higher gain stuff gets kinda iffy and either requires a lot of tweaks going through the sound system you're going to use. The half gain/crunch settings are also ok going the way they are.

So that leaves you trying out a few things. You can get the Palmer, or H&K Redbox strapped on the output before going into PA. I think some of the Sansamp boxes also have speaker emulation where you can defeat the box effect, like the TRI-OD has for example, when everything is turned off works only as speaker emulator. That one you can add on the fx loop. The Redbox you can put in last and feed that to PA.

Remember the GT units have a lot of things you can tweak, so people are often getting confused with what they're doing and end up slagging the unit.

If you want to stay on cab emulation you have these options as your last stage (Output settings, I think both GT-10 and GT-100):

JC-120 Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a Roland JC-120 guitar amp.

SMALL AMP Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to a
small guitar amp.

COMBO AMP
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a combo-type guitar amp (i.e., a single
unit that contains the amp and speaker) other than
the JC-120.
For some types of guitar amps, the JC-120 setting
might produce better results.

STACK AMP
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
guitar input of a stack-type guitar amp (i.e., one in
which the amp and speaker are separate units).

JC-120 RETURN Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of the JC-120.

COMBO RETURN Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of a combo-type guitar amp.

STACK RETURN
Choose this setting if the GT-100 is connected to the
RETURN jack of a stack-type guitar amp. You should
also choose the STACK RETURN setting if you're
using a guitar power amp together with a speaker
cabinet.

LINE/PHONES
Choose this setting if you're using headphones, or if
the GT-100 is connected direct to PA.

So these options here should be what you tweak first, also keep in mind that you won't always get the best results going into your designated amp. I've had to use "Combo Return" on a JCM900 head which was clearly "Stack return"

You could also do another trick - add a pedal that has speaker emulation built in, Sansamp GT-2 and others, H&K Tubeman , Blackstar HT - Dual , Mesa V-Twin and defeat the amp+cab emulation completely for some patches.

Now, for the high gain some people have blended two sounds and applied drastic eq and have made the high gain sound good, there are some of these samples on Youtube.

As far as the GT-10 I know that Jennifer Batten toured with one for all her sounds for about 2 years while she was with Jeff Beck, also Glenn Drover recorded his "Metalusion" album with one and I can't say either of them was getting bad sounds.
I personally couldn't hear a place where you'd say..."ewww that digital emulation sounds like crap, the Boss COSM is so behind the times"

You need to know what you're doing, period


Thanks you so much, mate!
That's exacylt what I'm thinking too.. To many people give up on tweaking the knobs and selecting the right output and just end up slamming the unit.. To be honest that's not really fair..
I must say that I do A LOT of tweaking with the knobs, because I really wanna make as good a sound as possible - I'm kind of a perfectionist when it comes to that.

I think I'm gonna try a couple of things out and see what It'll do
Thanks!
#28
I have a bank where I am using amp sims on the GT-100. I have tweaked them quite a bit but they are still only there in case of emergencies - because my RM's kick its arse easily.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#30
Quote by PedalFreak94
Why would you say that? Boss is one of the leading companies to improve their COSM technology and its features?
It's all relative - yeah, that's right - so of course we all have different opinions on what good gear is, but Boss isn't behind on anything..


Okay, so you're obviously a fan of BOSS stuff.
Then that's the gear you should be using. But the basic setup remains the same.
#31
I'm a fan of Roland in general too and is one reason I bought a GT-100. I don't delude myself that COSM is any good though - because it aint. It has good effects and shitty modeling. I didn't buy it for its modeling.
Sure it's good compared to an MG - but what isn't?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band