#1
I spent 5 hours today perusing all the guitar shops in the area for a combo amp to use during church. I was looking for something portable and light (my only amp, a B-52 AT-112 weighs a whopping 77 lbs!) and having good pristine cleans (all overdrive/edge of breakup sounds from my pedalboard), and since the church mic's our amps, not needing too much volume (or conversely, if high wattage, then having a good tone at low volumes).

I looked and played for hours and hours, and on my last stop, I finally found something that clicked with me---albeit a Bugera V55 Infinium head paired with 2x12 cabinet. I liked everything about that amp---cleans+reverb sounded great. Alas, they didn't have anything in combo form, and they couldn't order anything till they checked Monday, because they had recently stopped stocking Bugeras and needed to get in touch with their purchase guy.

The tentative plan was to get the setup in a combo form. I knew that the combos would be 1x12 as opposed to 2x12, so there'd be slight difference in tone, but probably one I could live with. I figured I would have them order a V22 combo for me, since it seemed light/portable enough and I figured I wouldn't need 55 watts.

Alas, when I checked Bugera's website, I found that for some reason, the V22 combo has EL84s, as opposed to the 6L6 on the V55s. Now I'm not sure what to do. I see that the V55 is in combo form as well, so I suppose I could order that instead, but with such high wattage, I wouldnt be able to crank it too high at church, so I don't know if it would sound good at low volumes. On the other hand, I don't want to get a V22 combo and get a completely different tone than the one I clicked with.

1) V22 vs V55...due to different tube types, what would you say the differences in tone are. Anyone here play both?

2) Does the V55 cleans sound good at low volumes (ie volume knob will probably go up to 9--11'o clock max).
#2
The cleans will sound better with higher wattage.

You will also get better bass response from the larger transformer.

As for differences in tone, unless you're cranking it I doubt you'd be able to hear the difference
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#3
Don't even bother. Bugeras are not known for reliability in the slightest. Thing will be liable to go all Varg Vikernes on you and well....
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#4
Quote by TheStig1214
Don't even bother. Bugeras are not known for reliability in the slightest. Thing will be liable to go all Varg Vikernes on you and well....


These Bugeras are the newer Infinium series, which I've scoured the net for news if reliability has improved. So far, looks like they're a lot more trustworthy than their predecessors.
#6
Quote by Always-Ben
These Bugeras are the newer Infinium series, which I've scoured the net for news if reliability has improved. So far, looks like they're a lot more trustworthy than their predecessors.

Really? We get plenty of "my amp broke" threads in here for them. Behringer is NOT reliable, regardless of what their marketing department says.
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#7
Quote by Cathbard
Really? We get plenty of "my amp broke" threads in here for them. Behringer is NOT reliable, regardless of what their marketing department says.


I did see those, but they all concerned the 333XL Infiniums. The V22/V55 Infiniums, I haven't seen those threads yet. If you could link me to one, though, that'd be great for me to read through and study.
#8
The V series does seem to be a bit better but man, they're still Behringer rubbish. It's your money but unless it was on Stupid Deal Of The Day for really stupid cheap, I wouldn't touch one.
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#9
The reason the 333XL is mentioned so much is because it's their most popular head. The V series is only marginally better.
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#10
Bugeras do have a high failure rate unfortunately. Ive ordered two different models so far at two different time periods: the first one fried after a month, the second showed up DOA. That said, once you have them fixed up, they are reliable and sound amazing. My 333 was fixed up and ive had it for 5 or 6 years now. My 6262 is in the shop right now to figure out the power supply issue; man, the tech was gawking and eye-fuking the amp when I brought it in there.

The question is- can you accept that there is a reasonable chance the amp will fail? You could be premptive and bring it to a tech and have him clean it up before issues arise too. Once its fixed up, itll rip. Otherwise, you have to pay more money for the brands that overcharge, but seem to have better "out-of-the-box" quality, which definitely carries a value
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#11
I wouldn't get a Bugera man, and not because of the supposed reliability issues (albeit there have been threads, but not that many more than other amplifier manufacturers, and nobody seems to be able to provide a proportionate reading of how many break compared to other manufacturers), but because you'll be getting comments like these. They made a bad name for themselves, it ballooned, and as a guitarist, just that means you want to stay away from them.
The above post is in terms of 'YMMV' and 'IMO', etc...

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We need to start at the very beginning. What is tone.
#12
Quote by Cathbard
Really? We get plenty of "my amp broke" threads in here for them. Behringer is NOT reliable, regardless of what their marketing department says.


The last several broke amp threads have been peavey and Mesa IIRC, and of course one abbey...

FFS.


As usual a lot of bandwagon, not much substance.
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Last edited by Arby911 at May 30, 2015,
#13
Quote by Arby911
The last several broke amp threads have been peavey and Mesa IIRC, and of course one abbey...

FFS.


As usual a lot of bandwagon, not much substance.


Actually I think someone is keeping track of all the busted Bugera threads.... 311?

Not saying certain lines of other amps are not reliable (hell, I own a Laney which was pretty shoddy in the 90s) but Bugeras have definitely proven themselves to be relatively less reliable across the board compared to competitors. I've dealt with a bad one personally, and I warned my friend that bought it that it was going to die on him in a month. I was wrong in the end.... it took 2 weeks....
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Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#14
Quote by TheStig1214
Actually I think someone is keeping track of all the busted Bugera threads.... 311?

Not saying certain lines of other amps are not reliable (hell, I own a Laney which was pretty shoddy in the 90s) but Bugeras have definitely proven themselves to be relatively less reliable across the board compared to competitors. I've dealt with a bad one personally, and I warned my friend that bought it that it was going to die on him in a month. I was wrong in the end.... it took 2 weeks....


I know about 311's log, who has kept track of the other manufacturers?

As humans we are wired to see patterns and draw conclusions on thin evidence, but from a simple mathematical standpoint avoiding Bugera because of the few failures claimed here simply doesn't make sense.

It's not my argument, it's simple logic supported by math.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#15
Quote by Arby911
I know about 311's log, who has kept track of the other manufacturers?

As humans we are wired to see patterns and draw conclusions on thin evidence, but from a simple mathematical standpoint avoiding Bugera because of the few failures claimed here simply doesn't make sense.

It's not my argument, it's simple logic supported by math.

Agreed. And when put against some of the more than usually-recommended and also MIC amps, it becomes easier to go with the crowd, safety in numbers, etc. (boring )

I've been lucky with the 1990 when they sold for stupid prices (MFSDotD), new. It's ~5 years old, been passed around (kinda like by the girls' swim, golf, soccer, etc. teams in HS when they wanted to get their BFs jealous), has accumulated the sleaze bar film and smells, and still going strong after all the preamps where replaced by some nice Shuguang Gen 9s.

BTW, I spammed Arby's memo when the 6260 went for below 200, a MFSDotD 3 days ago ... price of a pedal or dinner with your favorite girl.
#16
Quote by Arby911
The last several broke amp threads have been peavey and Mesa IIRC, and of course one abbey...

FFS.


As usual a lot of bandwagon, not much substance.

Man, Behringer is Behringer. We all know what that means.
You got yours as a SDOTD, I did mention that. If a V22 popped up for $100 then it's worth a gamble. Otherwise, well, it's fvcking Behriinger FFS, so, no.
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Behringer/Bugera are (slowly) improving (and God, let's hope so because they've just bought TC). I think they've realised that even with their price points, they can't keep their market share without better QC and customer service.

There's a bit of a bandwagon here about them, but it's up to you whether or not it's worth the risk.
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#18
Quote by Arby911
I know about 311's log, who has kept track of the other manufacturers?

As humans we are wired to see patterns and draw conclusions on thin evidence, but from a simple mathematical standpoint avoiding Bugera because of the few failures claimed here simply doesn't make sense.

It's not my argument, it's simple logic supported by math.


if the few failures reported here was all we had to go by then the math might be right. go to any guitar board or talk to any full time amp tech and then the numbers may tell a different story. i think the overall numbers support the fact the Bugera has a higher failure rate than any of the major amp companies. now i think it's fair to say that the actual numbers don't show that buying a bugera means your amp is doomed to fail automatically. they are high enough that it should at least give you pause when making a decision.

Bugera is a classic case of quantity over quality. they deliver a ton of desireable features dirt cheap. well it's cheap for a reason.
#19
Ts u described perfectly what a blues junior does. Grab a used one, they are also very light weight.
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#20
Quote by monwobobbo
if the few failures reported here was all we had to go by then the math might be right. go to any guitar board or talk to any full time amp tech and then the numbers may tell a different story. i think the overall numbers support the fact the Bugera has a higher failure rate than any of the major amp companies. now i think it's fair to say that the actual numbers don't show that buying a bugera means your amp is doomed to fail automatically. they are high enough that it should at least give you pause when making a decision.

Bugera is a classic case of quantity over quality. they deliver a ton of desireable features dirt cheap. well it's cheap for a reason.


Ok fine, how high are the numbers? At what level should it give one pause?

You're talking generalities as if they were specifics and not mentioning that many of us frequent several forums, which makes it likely that many of the complaints are about the same failures.

I've shown elsewhere that even were the numbers significantly HIGHER than the only real data we have suggests they are that from a rational standpoint they are still an excellent bargain.

But people love to pretend that inferential and/or anecdotal "data" has the same value as validated data and draw conclusions that simply cannot be supported, similar to your "well it's cheap for a reason". That is no doubt true but what you've not shown is what that reason actually is. You've merely made a statement, given a single reason and implied that reason is the only explanation possible.

It's not.

Also, to Cath:

Your claims, of anyone here, offend me the most, I KNOW you are smart enough to see that the math doesn't add up, but you still go on saying crap that can't be supported because it pleases your sense of irascibility. You buy cheap Chinese stuff pretty regularly and make no apologies for it (nor should you) but then you turn around and claim that because Bugera is owned by the same holding company that owns Behringer that it's automagically garbage.

That's just ****ing stupid, and you're not stupid.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at May 31, 2015,
#21
Whilst bugera aren't the best quality you can have, if it's got a warranty and you can return it later on I'd take the chance.
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#23
Quote by 7thString
wtf? Behringer is Bugera? It all makes sense now...



Not exactly. Bugera is owned by Music Group, which also owns Behringer. Music Group also owns a few other brands.

http://www.music-group.com/brands.aspx
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#24
for what it's worth, I had the V22 for a few years and I beat the hell out of it ( standby switch broke off in on position, replaced speaker with a crate, hit it with my car, fell off stage, duct tapes rear tolex) and it never gave up. I sold it for $200, still. the cleans sounded like garbage, and they were all I used. I wouldn't recommend anything below 30 watts for your church band.
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#25
Quote by monwobobbo
if the few failures reported here was all we had to go by then the math might be right. go to any guitar board or talk to any full time amp tech and then the numbers may tell a different story. i think the overall numbers support the fact the Bugera has a higher failure rate than any of the major amp companies. now i think it's fair to say that the actual numbers don't show that buying a bugera means your amp is doomed to fail automatically. they are high enough that it should at least give you pause when making a decision.

Bugera is a classic case of quantity over quality. they deliver a ton of desireable features dirt cheap. well it's cheap for a reason.

While I'm not full time, I do deal with all the amps that come through the local guitar shop as well as offer tech services to the students of several local tutors.

In the past 12 months I've had 2 Bugeras across my various benches, one was a blown preamp tube on a fairly well used amp (so I won't count that as a fault), the other one was a failed capacitor.

So one failed bugera, compare that to about 5 oranges, 4 blackstars,bin excess of 20 Marshalls, 3 fenders, 3 carvins and a multitude of other brands that had component failure.

I short I'd really have to disagree with your sweeping statement.

Disclaimer: we are not a bugera dealership so out-of-the-box faulty and warranty repairs don't run by me, but none of the other brands i listed come under those areas either
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#26
If you want a bugera dude, get one. I have 2. a 333 and 6262 and they are both great, no issues at all. the 333 has great cleans. Both way more reliable than my old jcm800 that blew up on a monthly basis.
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#27
Quote by Always-Ben
I spent 5 hours today perusing all the guitar shops in the area for a combo amp to use during church. I was looking for something portable and light (my only amp, a B-52 AT-112 weighs a whopping 77 lbs!) and having good pristine cleans (all overdrive/edge of breakup sounds from my pedalboard), and since the church mic's our amps, not needing too much volume (or conversely, if high wattage, then having a good tone at low volumes).


Try a modeler with a powered speaker.

I've felt your pain. My workhorse Carvin XV112E is well over 75 lbs (100W, big transformers, bigass 15 lb magnet on the back of the EV-L, etc.). After a while, you look like Quasimodo, leaning to one side.

A Carvin PM12A weighs in the neighborhood of 30 lbs, a modeler a few pounds and you can run your signal from the modeler directly into the church's mixer (no miking required). The Carvin works equally good as a stand-mounted speaker or as a wedge monitor and since it's got a 400W amp built in, you have headroom for days.
Last edited by dspellman at May 31, 2015,