#1
Hi guys

I've tried searching on here but I haven't found anything that answers my question.

I'm looking at swapping out one of the tone pots on my Gibson Les Paul for a push/pull pot (or ideally a push/push pot if possible) to swap the phasing on the neck pickup to be able to get that lovely out of phase tone.

The guitar is completely standard and has Gibson's ceramic pickups in. Before anyone suggests it I don't fancy changing to the Bare Knuckle PG set or anything similar as I'm happy with the current sound (I just want to add another sound).

Is this a simple mod? Does anyone have any instructions on how to re-wire the pots/pickups to get this to work? And is there a push/push pot and knob combination that won't look out of place on a Les Paul (preferably gold top hat style)?

Thanks
#2
Yeah it's simple

Here you go:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w_phase


You can use the knobs that are currently on the guitar if you are happy with them. You need to take those off to remove the pots they're attached to anyway.

Edit:
Should mention that Gibson and SD colour code their wires differently so the colours in that diagram are different from your pickups
Last edited by xnameisonx at Jun 4, 2015,
#3
If you don't like having a push/pull, you could always just reverse the phase with wiring or a magnet flip.
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#4
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
If you don't like having a push/pull, you could always just reverse the phase with wiring or a magnet flip.


Yeah but then you lose the normal both pickups sound rather than having the out of phase sound being an extra. If you never ever use your middle position then this would be fine. (And slightly less work than wiring a phase switch)
#5
Quote by xnameisonx
Yeah but then you lose the normal both pickups sound rather than having the out of phase sound being an extra. If you never ever use your middle position then this would be fine. (And slightly less work than wiring a phase switch)


Not really, you just roll down the volume a tiny bit on one pickup and its back in phase. Nothing I've had to think about dealing with. Easier than dealing with DPDT stuff and switches IMO since I'm always riding the volume.


FWIW, 3 of my LPs are OoP that way.
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#6
you need two four wire pickups, or I've heard gary moore when someone worked on his guitar they put the neck pickup on backwards for the out of phase sound.

in a pickup we have two poles
north - where good boys get gibsons and fenders if they do their chores
south - where bad boys get squiers and epiphones
so with 4 wire pickups if you change where the hot lead and ground go you reverse the polarity.

to make the "X" on the top 2 and bottom 2 wires you can cheat and use like capacitor leads or many other things

focus on the push pull pot, you can add out of phase to any passive wiring. This can be added to the tone or anything else. There is also the half out of phase mod for 2 wire pickups.
Last edited by Tallwood13 at Jun 4, 2015,
#7
Quote by Tallwood13
you need two four wire pickups, or I've heard gary moore when someone worked on his guitar they put the neck pickup on backwards for the out of phase sound.

in a pickup we have two poles
north - where good boys get gibsons and fenders if they do their chores
south - where bad boys get squiers and epiphones
so with 4 wire pickups if you change where the hot lead and ground go you reverse the polarity.

to make the "X" on the top 2 and bottom 2 wires you can cheat and use like capacitor leads or many other things

focus on the push pull pot, you can add out of phase to any passive wiring. This can be added to the tone or anything else. There is also the half out of phase mod for 2 wire pickups.



Nope. Rotating the pickup will have no effect on polarity (go try it without magnet flipping first). On the Moore/Green/Melvin burst, the magnet in the neck was oriented the wrong way (which is what produces the OoP sound). Green's pickup was malfunctioning so he had it repaired at Selmer's. When they took the thing apart, they didn't mark N/S on the magnet and put it in backwards by mistake. The rest is history.


The magnet flip has been confirmed by people who have actually held that guitar/worked on it/owned it too. The fact that the pickup was rotated was just an error when they were reinstalling the pup in the guitar. Has no bearing on phase or anything.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#8
Quote by Tallwood13
you need two four wire pickups,


No you don't. You only need a hot and a ground wire to switch around, the other two stay as they are when you change the phase so you don't need access to them
#9
Quote by xnameisonx
No you don't. You only need a hot and a ground wire to switch around, the other two stay as they are when you change the phase so you don't need access to them


+1
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#10
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Not really, you just roll down the volume a tiny bit on one pickup and its back in phase. Nothing I've had to think about dealing with. Easier than dealing with DPDT stuff and switches IMO since I'm always riding the volume.


FWIW, 3 of my LPs are OoP that way.


I'm pretty sure lowering the volume doesn't affect the phase of the pickup, though it would reduce the cancelling effect as there is just less signal to cancel.


Randomguitar777, if you're soldering this yourself, why don't you try it his way (just reverse the wires on one pickup) and see if you like it that way as it doesn't require any new components. Then if you feel that you've lost something, install a switch so you can have it both ways.
#11
Quote by xnameisonx
I'm pretty sure lowering the volume doesn't affect the phase of the pickup, though it would reduce the cancelling effect as there is just less signal to cancel.


Randomguitar777, if you're soldering this yourself, why don't you try it his way (just reverse the wires on one pickup) and see if you like it that way as it doesn't require any new components. Then if you feel that you've lost something, install a switch so you can have it both ways.


It doesn't effect the phase, sure. But it sounds close enough for me to not notice.


I just mentioned it so TS had another option if he doesn't want to go the push-pull or switches route. People do it pretty often. It's not uncommon.
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My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#12
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
It doesn't effect the phase, sure. But it sounds close enough for me to not notice.


I just mentioned it so TS had another option if he doesn't want to go the push-pull or switches route. People do it pretty often. It's not uncommon.


Fair enough

Like I say, nothing to stop him trying it that way first to see if it works for him before deciding if he wants to modify it further
#13
Quote by xnameisonx
Fair enough

Like I say, nothing to stop him trying it that way first to see if it works for him before deciding if he wants to modify it further


Yeah I mean it's such a quick and simple thing to do either way. Worth a shot, you know?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


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I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#14
I have a short ton of guitars with a phase switch, but most of mine have a nice little miniswitch that does the honors. It's a pain in the butt to be flipping magnets and all that. Obviously you'll only get the effect if you have the pickup selector switch in the "both pickups selected" position and the maximum effect is with the volumes at the same point on both pickups. Roll back the volume on one or the other of the pickups and the "nasal" mid-rangey sound will change to favor the pickup that still has the volume on full.

There's actually a better way -- I have a blend switch on several of my guitars. When both pickups are selected, I can roll the blend switch one way or the other and it leans toward one pickup or the other. My pots have detents so that I can find the middle position,which has both pickups equal volume. When you switch to an out of phase condition, however, the blend pot allows you to move from one pickup to the very out of phase condition in the middle, and to the other pickup, with the out-of-phase effect diminishing as you roll through. The benefit is that the volume stays the same no matter where you're set.
#15
Thanks everyone - I never realised it was such a quick thing to try. If I can get my soldering iron working I'll try just swapping the wires around. I don't normally use the two pickups together unless I want that inbetween kind of sound that OoP will make better.

Just to check - this will only change the sound when the two pickups are selected together. The bridge pickup on its own will still sound the same on its own right?
#16
Quote by RANDOM777

Just to check - this will only change the sound when the two pickups are selected together. The bridge pickup on its own will still sound the same on its own right?


Yup.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.