#1
So I was having trouble in a full band with my triple xxx; As distorted as my amp was by myself, it took noticeably more to get the same tones. Like, my ultra channel was doing thrash with the gain at 11:00, but with the full band I had it at 1:00 with a green rhino boosting it to get the same tone.

If this is common/expected in a full band setup I'll cope (been a while since I've used full band settings), but is it fixable?

I replaced the power tubes about a week ago, read something about replacing the driver at the same time too (I didn't); is this a thing/should I? The other pre-amp tubes don't look too worn.

I had the bias knob at noon, if it's relevant. Damping was tight, but I don't know how much that'll affect the distortion.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 4, 2015,
#3
Quote by diabolical
I think you reached the point at which I discovered this amp is crap. Mid channel crunch with overdrive gets Exodus tones, try that. The ultra channel is a fizzy farting mess.


I mean, it wasn't a mess, per say. It just didn't sound as heavy with the band than myself. Tonally/EQ-wise, it was fine.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#4
What kind of pre-amp tubes are in it? I have JJ's in my Ultra which is very similar to the XXX, really beefs it up, makes it a lot meaner.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#5
could it be that if you play with your band and everyone plays around the same frequency, your sound just drowns away?
In wich case u should fiddle with the eq to punch trough the rest of the band and get your sound out there.
(not sure if it can be that, but there's people that know more about this stuff on this forum that'll correct me if I'm wrong)
#6
Quote by diabolical
I think you reached the point at which I discovered this amp is crap. Mid channel crunch with overdrive gets Exodus tones, try that. The ultra channel is a fizzy farting mess.


I don't agree at all that the amp is crap, but I do agree that the ultra channel isn't very good, at least to my ears.

I'm also not sure that the OP actually has a "problem" per se. Playing live v. playing at home pretty much always requires some knob tweaking to sit in the mix properly.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#7
Quote by stef.van.poucke
could it be that if you play with your band and everyone plays around the same frequency, your sound just drowns away?
In wich case u should fiddle with the eq to punch trough the rest of the band and get your sound out there.
(not sure if it can be that, but there's people that know more about this stuff on this forum that'll correct me if I'm wrong)


This. I don't know how you're EQ'd, but if your mids are scooped, put them back into the mix. Boost them a little, even. It'll help you cut through with the full band.
#8
depends on your band set up
but when i play with my band (two guitars a bass and keyboards) the bass can really muddy things up so i pretty keep that low for both guitars i have the mids pretty high (7-8) and trble around the same so maybe you just have some muddyness issues also try using less gain more volume

the speakers also matter if the amp is at your feet and your feet dont have ears theres no way youre going to hear it
#9
You're going to *perceive* a lot more bottom end sitting in a bedroom with the amp at normal levels. But cranking up a 2x12 combo amp in a band setting is going to leave most of that bottom end behind. It happens more quickly with an open-back combo amp than it does with a closed-back cabinet, but the old saw about 100W Marshall stacks is that the louder you turn it up, the less bass it has.

What's happening is that bottom end requires MUCH more power than mids (a speaker needs to move four TIMES as much air to reproduce a note an octave down at the *same volume*), and as you use more of the amps power to produce overall volume, you lose what you need at the bottom end.

IN short, if you've got the bottom end cranked up and you turn up the volume, the amp will become progressively LESS "heavy." Almost always happens this way in a band setting.

There are solutions.
#10
are you playing at teh same volume when alone. if not then that is part of the problem. getting a more saturated / distorted sound at lower volumes is much easier than at band volumes. just the way the amps are.

record the band and see how it sounds that way. it may be better than you think.
#11
Amp tubes: power=jj 6l6gc (a week old), preamps=EHX 12ax7. The driver isn't about to blow but it looks a little less fresh than the others.

My amps settings: Tight damping, ultra channel, mostly EQ at noon. The EQ wasn't the issue, though; I could hear myself fine. Just the amount of gain seemed off from my expectations and how the gain on the amp usually acts for other xxx users.

The other guitarist had a line 6 half stack (spider IV head if I had to guess) but our volume were about equal.

Honestly I figured it was just adapting from just me to full band, but after swapping tubes for the first time I just wanted to make sure.

Side note: Does it matter that my power and pre-amp tubes don't match up brand-wise and age-wise?

Personal story time: This actually almost prevented me from getting a second shot wit this band, on top of the fact that they tried making line6 sound better than peavey. The singer said that even a Boss heavy metal pedal could do the trick. Boss distortion pedals. Jesus.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 4, 2015,
#12
Quote by Maidenheadsteve


Personal story time: This actually almost prevented me from getting a second shot wit this band, on top of the fact that they tried making line6 sound better than peavey. The singer said that even a Boss heavy metal pedal could do the trick. Boss distortion pedals. Jesus.


Might have been a blessing in disguise...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#13
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
Amp tubes: power=jj 6l6gc (a week old), preamps=ehx 12ax7. The driver isn't about to blow but it looks a little less fresh than the others.

My amps settings: Tight damping, ultra channel, mostly EQ at noon. The EQ wasn't the issue, though; I could hear myself fine. Just the amount of gain seemed off from my expectations and how the gain on the amp usually acts for other xxx users.

The other guitarist had a line 6 half stack (spider IV head if I had to guess) but our volume were about equal.

Honestly I figured it was just adapting from just me to full band, but after swapping tubes for the first time I just wanted to make sure.

Side note: Does it matter that my power and pre-amp tubes don't match up brand-wise and age-wise?

Personal story time: This actually almost prevented me from getting a second shot wit this band, on top of the fact that they tried making line6 sound better than peavey. The singer said that even a Boss heavy metal pedal could do the trick. Boss distortion pedals. Jesus.


Boss HM-2 would only do the horrid black metal sound with a Peavey Rage 158

I think you could scoop your mids a bit.. if your Peavey is anything like a 6505 that is. I find their mid presence at best when it's around 3.5-4 (9-10 o'clock).

Your pre-amp tubes aren't the best as in terms of reliability.. but if they work, I guess they work. I liked JJs and TADs a lot... but these days I don't have any tubes in my signal chain. That might change.. or might not, hah.
Gear pics

Quote by Cathbard
Bugera cloning Blackstar is a scandal cloaked in a tragedy making love to a nightmare.

#14
Buy a three-set of JJ ecc83 tubes. Yank the EH 12ax7 (don't throw them away, just store them in a safe place, they are fine for other applications or as a band-aid if you have a tube go out in the future). Leave the EH 12ax7 that is in the Phase Inverter slot as that tube is more than likely balanced. Change the other preamp tubes to JJ. Preamp tubes aren't terribly expensive, and it is worth playing around with them to dial in an amp to your liking. EH tubes are too bright and thin for the XXX. They work fine in plexi type amps where you want a lot of crunch and classic gain, but they will make a high gain amp seem anemic.

What genre of music are you playing? Is it some kind of funky djent music or something? I only ask because, I can't see any reason to use the tight setting on a XXX. Switch that thing over to the loose setting, that is where all the ooomph is on those amps.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#15
Quote by ThunderPunk
Buy a three-set of JJ ecc83 tubes. Yank the EH 12ax7 (don't throw them away, just store them in a safe place, they are fine for other applications or as a band-aid if you have a tube go out in the future). Leave the EH 12ax7 that is in the Phase Inverter slot as that tube is more than likely balanced. Change the other preamp tubes to JJ. Preamp tubes aren't terribly expensive, and it is worth playing around with them to dial in an amp to your liking. EH tubes are too bright and thin for the XXX. They work fine in plexi type amps where you want a lot of crunch and classic gain, but they will make a high gain amp seem anemic.

What genre of music are you playing? Is it some kind of funky djent music or something? I only ask because, I can't see any reason to use the tight setting on a XXX. Switch that thing over to the loose setting, that is where all the ooomph is on those amps.


The tight setting is what I use when I'm alone; I do Maiden (surprise, surprise) and 80's thrash. The amp calls for 12ax7's (says so right next to the sockets), so should I just get JJ's instead of the EHX's 12ax7's in there now? Or will the amp be fine with other tube models?
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 4, 2015,
#16
You can use any 12ax7 or ecc83 - same thing different designation. I believe ecc-83 is the British designation for what we call a 12ax7 tube in the U.S. Brits also call them valves rather than tubes... but back on track: Different manufacturer tubes give different 'flavor' is the best way to put it.

JJ preamp tubes will mean up your amp a bit more. Just change the three toward the front of the amp that are in a row.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#17
Quote by Arby911
Might have been a blessing in disguise...


have to agree. did you have to match up to the other guys Line 6? if so then part of the issue may be there. your amp should be able to bury his volume and tone wise.

word from the wise if these guys are bozos then don't join you will regret it down the road.
#18
I have the exact same amp it sure isn't a "crap" amp. Hard to tweak yeah active eq's take some getting use to. Try some lower gain pre tubes 12at7's for the ultra channel. Leave it on loose as suggested at band levels. Use the mids but remember one setting mids,bass etc effect all the others. I get all my lead tones and rhythm tones on the crunch channel myself. With 12ax7's the ultra is pretty sloppy try some at7's makes it more usable like the crunch channel.
Mesa Boogie Single Rectoverb 50 series 2 combo
Randall RM100
Peavey 5150 4x12
Peavey XXX 2x12 combo
Pedals
#19
Sometimes, it just where your amp is sitting in the room.

Some rooms have pretty big acoustic nodes that will swallow the best of a guitar amp. Move it 4' to the left and shazam! Tone! Weird but true. Some guys are fanatical about amp placement in certain rooms.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#20
Quote by monwobobbo
have to agree. did you have to match up to the other guys Line 6? if so then part of the issue may be there. your amp should be able to bury his volume and tone wise.

word from the wise if these guys are bozos then don't join you will regret it down the road.


I like their style, I just question their self-appointed gear savvy-ness. But bury him, even though I have a 2X12 combo and he has a head/4X12 cab?


I think I'll ponder the preamp tubes. Not before messing with the damping switch, but it's something to ponder. Anyone else want to weigh in on EHX vs JJ's (at least in an 12ax7/ecc83 context)?
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 4, 2015,
#21
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
I like their style, I just question their self-appointed gear savvy-ness. But bury him, even though I have a 2X12 combo and he has a head/4X12 cab?


I think I'll ponder the preamp tubes. Not before messing with the damping switch, but it's something to ponder. Anyone else want to weigh in on EHX vs JJ's (at least in an 12ax7/ecc83 context)?


Oh hell yeah.
I have a Vox AC30 (30 watts) with a 2x12 and can bury or at the very least keep up with many 100 watt 4x12 amps. And stay cleaner at the same time.
Speaker choice can make a difference here.
I can't count the number of times I've been asked to "turn it down".

And as has been pointed out, room acoustics can play a MAJOR role in how your amp (and everybody else's gear) can sound.
The wall your amp is pointed at (material, shape, etc.)
Same with amp placement, left, right, up, down, etc. all can make a big difference.
Where you and everybody else is on relation to an amp.
So many factors can affect how an amp can sound.

As for tubes, mixing brands is not a problem.
I prefer JJ tubes myself. YMMV.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Jun 4, 2015,
#22
Quote by CodeMonk
Oh hell yeah.
I have a Vox AC30 (30 watts) with a 2x12 and can bury or at the very least keep up with many 100 watt 4x12 amps. And stay cleaner at the same time.
Speaker choice can make a difference here.
I can't count the number of times I've been asked to "turn it down".

And as has been pointed out, room acoustics can play a MAJOR role in how your amp (and everybody else's gear) can sound.
The wall your amp is pointed at (material, shape, etc.)
Same with amp placement, left, right, up, down, etc. all can make a big difference.
Where you and everybody else is on relation to an amp.
So many factors can affect how an amp can sound.

As for tubes, mixing brands is not a problem.
I prefer JJ tubes myself. YMMV.


I'll keep it in mind and see if I can move the amp around. Would you say that the JJ's are better for a more aggressive amp like mine?
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#23
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
I like their style, I just question their self-appointed gear savvy-ness. But bury him, even though I have a 2X12 combo and he has a head/4X12 cab?


I think I'll ponder the preamp tubes. Not before messing with the damping switch, but it's something to ponder. Anyone else want to weigh in on EHX vs JJ's (at least in an 12ax7/ecc83 context)?


his 100 watts of modeled power vs your 60 watts of tube is no contest. i'll bet i could drown him out with my 1x12 Valveking and sound better doing it. i've already sent 2 guys begging for mercy with my Ultra 2x12 vs their MG w/4x12. believe me you will be louder and sound better.

if these guys are like that about gear then don't be suprised if other things pop up as you go along. never let them act like they are doing you a favour by letting you in the band. if anything you need to (without being a douche) give off the vibe that you are doing them a service by having you in the band. a little confidence goes a long way.
#24
Also, how are you setting your volumes? You have a Master Volume and then Channel Volumes for both the crunch and ultra. Mess around with those knobs a bit. Crank up the master volume and adjust the channel volume to flavor and then try it the other way around - crank the channel and use the master, and then somewhere in between - a compromise of both extremes. Mess with those knobs and see if that helps at all.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#25
Quote by monwobobbo
his 100 watts of modeled power vs your 60 watts of tube is no contest. i'll bet i could drown him out with my 1x12 Valveking and sound better doing it. i've already sent 2 guys begging for mercy with my Ultra 2x12 vs their MG w/4x12. believe me you will be louder and sound better.

if these guys are like that about gear then don't be suprised if other things pop up as you go along. never let them act like they are doing you a favour by letting you in the band. if anything you need to (without being a douche) give off the vibe that you are doing them a service by having you in the band. a little confidence goes a long way.


I mean, I'm certainly not acknowledging the singer's thought on distortion as relevant. I personally agreed with their premise that the distortion sounded a bit off the first time through, and I felt like the settings were higher than what it actually sounded like (basically the reason for this thread).

And yes, I did consider master vs channel volumes today when I had time to ponder all this; if i'm not mistaken, a lower master volume allows for higher distortion (for lack of better terminology), right?
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 4, 2015,
#26
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
I mean, I'm certainly not acknowledging the singer's thought on distortion as relevant. I personally agreed with their premise that the distortion sounded a bit off the first time through, and I felt like the settings were higher than what it actually sounded like (basically the reason for this thread).

And yes, I did consider master vs channel volumes today when I had time to ponder all this; if i'm not mistaken, a lower master volume allows for higher distortion (for lack of better terminology), right?


yes basically. it's easier to achieve a higher distortion level when the master is down. this is why SS amps often sound halfway decent at bedroom voume but suck at band volume. have you tried to adjust your overdrive a bit to compensate?
#27
You'll get distortion either way. Not necessarily less, just different. It differs in where you're going to get that distortion from and the characteristics of that distortion. Pushing the master volume harder works the power tubes. It pulls back some of the fizz and beefs up the tone when you push the Master harder.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
Last edited by ThunderPunk at Jun 4, 2015,
#28
I usually crank the channel volume wide open or close to it then add in the master to get to band practice gig levels it pushes your pre tubes harder that way. Also Ehx tubes are to harsh in the xxx imo. I've got a mix of nos rca,new mullard reissues and tungsols. I just tried lots of combos till I found what I liked. Ten band eq helped as well.
Mesa Boogie Single Rectoverb 50 series 2 combo
Randall RM100
Peavey 5150 4x12
Peavey XXX 2x12 combo
Pedals
#29
Quote by Maidenheadsteve
I'll keep it in mind and see if I can move the amp around. Would you say that the JJ's are better for a more aggressive amp like mine?


Well, the only thing I can say about that is that my AC30 came stock with EHX tubes.
The JJ's were a little darker.