Page 1 of 4
#1
Out of Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart, whos compostional skills do you respect the most,and why? I do realise music is subjective but It would be intersting to know other peoples opinions on three of the biggest composers in histroy.
radiantmoon is the toughest person I know. He inflects a sense of impending doom upon any who look upon his stone-chiseled face. The children run out of fear, while the men run for they know that the stories are true.
#2
Those guys are more known for their names than for their music in general. Most people know Beethoven's 5th, 9th, and Fur Elise and people have heard A Little Night Music and Toccata and Fugue in D minor (whose authorship is questionable) but don't know the composer. Nobody is well acquainted with their music outside of classical music fans and music students, which is a small percentage of musicians and a smaller percentage of non-musicians.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#3
Bach everytime cause Glenn Gould

Mozart is boring and Beethoven is ok. but Bach...
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#4
I am not a connoisseur in those genres, but I like Beethoven the most. I find that guy is a beast. Obviously they are all great, and Mozart was a musical genius, but I like Beethoven's music most, from what I've heard.
#5
Quote by theogonia777
Those guys are more known for their names than for their music in general. Most people know Beethoven's 5th, 9th, and Fur Elise and people have heard A Little Night Music and Toccata and Fugue in D minor (whose authorship is questionable) but don't know the composer. Nobody is well acquainted with their music outside of classical music fans and music students, which is a small percentage of musicians and a smaller percentage of non-musicians.


Those guys have names because of their compostional skills, hence why their works are studied throughout the world, and why they are known. To someone who doesnt listen to classical music then they are just names, but to fans of classical music then they are among some of the most admired composers. I was reaching out to people that actually were familair with their music and didnt just know Joy of Mans Desiring and Eine Kleine Nactmusik. I would think being on a music theory board some people may know about composers.
radiantmoon is the toughest person I know. He inflects a sense of impending doom upon any who look upon his stone-chiseled face. The children run out of fear, while the men run for they know that the stories are true.
#6
a bunch of us do, a bunch of us don't :shrug:
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#7
D. None of the above.
Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky is the classical composer who taught me my biggest lesson. I am not a big fan of classical music but when I was very young I was a horror movie fanatic (follow me here, I know this sounds stupid). Two of my favorite movies were the original Dracula and Mummy movies. They both used the same tune under the opening credits. Turns out it is the main theme to finale of Tchaikovsky's "Swan Lake". I bought a vinyl copy of "Swan Lake" and listened to the entire finale. What I discovered was that while the actual melody of the theme didn't change, the chord structure behind it did. It alternated between being played in a major mode and a minor mode that is enhanced brilliantly by the dynamics of the performance itself. It starts with very few instruments and builds slowly and more dramatically until the end when it all stops dead and goes into a very simple but ultimately dramatic end. During the whole piece the main melody doesn't change. The tempo does and it goes from a minor backing to a major backing several times.

From this I learned just how major and minor chord structure influences the emotional tone of a piece and how even a simple melody can be turned into something awesome with a great arrangement.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Jun 9, 2015,
#8
Quote by radiantmoon
I would think being on a music theory board some people may know about composers.


Then why didn't you pick better composers like Schubert or Brahms or Stravinsky or Balakirev or Ives or Tchaikovsky or Penderecki or Kondo or someone else that isn't just one the three most well known composers? It's like asking which was the greatest rock band: Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, or the Jimi Hendrix Experience? Besides, this is A) a music talk board and not specifically or exclusively music theory and B) not everyone listens to or enjoys classical music and not everyone thinks that it is the holy pinnacle of musical achievement.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#10
Classical music composers aren't important outside of Western Music. They are only important because the people who wrote the history books put them in there, that's pretty much it.
Last edited by GoldenGuitar at Jun 9, 2015,
#11
Quote by GoldenGuitar
Classical music composers aren't important outside of Western Music. They are only important because the people who wrote the history books put them in there, that's pretty much it.


And they're not even important to much of western music, such as any of the folk traditions.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#12
Personally never got that into Mozart or Beethoven's work. I grew to enjoy Bach and studied his music during my time in college for music, even though i went in for jazz performance.

Studying Bachs music taught me a lot about counterpoint, harmony in general and constructing flowing lines that outline the chord changes. All of which i have taken into my jazz playing since then. I think there are a lot to be learned from classical musicians, even for us that don't play classical music. (Of course the same can be said in reverse) Some of my heroes studied works of classical composers (Charlie Parker studied Bartok and Stravinskys work for instance, and Coltrane studied some Indian Classical music), and i firmly believe that in every genre there is at least one composer you will like. For me it is Bach when it comes to classical music, i do enjoy some John Dowland as well, but Bach definitively takes the spot as the main influence on me from the classical realm.

That being said, you study what you like. There is certainly a lot to be learned from musicians like Bach, but the same can be said for musicians like Charlie Parker, Allan Holdsworth, Tony Rice, John Petrucci, B.B King and Chet Atkins. All players from different styles, point being that you can always further your knowledge regardless of your taste.

But to quote Hail, "but bach tho".
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#13
^But Bach tho.

But seriously, why can't they all be good? Ugh.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#14
Quote by Jet Penguin
^But Bach tho.

But seriously, why can't they all be good? Ugh.


Or bad.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#15
Quote by Jet Penguin


But seriously, why can't they all be good? Ugh.


Agreed.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#16
Seriously, someone's music doesn't negate someone else's.

I like them all equally, and each has their ups and downs. We need to stop putting things in a box and thus denying ourselves part of the musical experience.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#17
Yep, these are all great composers. It might be more interesting to have a discussion on what we get from each them. For example, one thing I really like about Bach is that he's a true polyphonic composer, yet he is obviously quite mindful of fundamental bass and root progressions. While analyzing harmonic structure in his music, it's amazing to see what he does in the horizontal structures. He's a common practice era composer, but with one foot firmly planted in the Renaissance.
#20
Quote by Jet Penguin
^But Bach tho.

But seriously, why can't they all be good? Ugh.

cause mozart sucks


Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Beethoven is objectively the best. Mozart is a wannabe Haydn and Bach is cool when you're 16.

when was the last time I told you you were the worst?
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#24
Quote by theogonia777
Then why didn't you pick better composers like Schubert or Brahms or Stravinsky or Balakirev or Ives or Tchaikovsky or Penderecki or Kondo or someone else that isn't just one the three most well known composers? It's like asking which was the greatest rock band: Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, or the Jimi Hendrix Experience? Besides, this is A) a music talk board and not specifically or exclusively music theory and B) not everyone listens to or enjoys classical music and not everyone thinks that it is the holy pinnacle of musical achievement.


Better? Define what is better? I like Bach more than any of the composers you listed, so is he better? Give the reasons you think the composers you listed are better instead of just saying they are better because you prefer their music over the composers I listed. Also classical music gives a lot to analyse in music theory terms because there is so much going on. Especially when the music has been written for an entire orchestra. If you dont think classical music is the pinnacle then dont post in this thread and take your ignorance somewhere else. The fact is the composers I listed are all great composers, and if you knew anything about classical music you would understand why they all are so well known.
radiantmoon is the toughest person I know. He inflects a sense of impending doom upon any who look upon his stone-chiseled face. The children run out of fear, while the men run for they know that the stories are true.
#26
While from a different time, and considerably different style of music, Dvorak will always be my number 1 composer.
#27
Quote by radiantmoon
If you dont think classical music is the pinnacle then dont post in this thread and take your ignorance somewhere else. The fact is the composers I listed are all great composers, and if you knew anything about classical music you would understand why they all are so well known.

Kristen isn't the ignorant one, you are by saying that. A lot of us here have formal training in music so yeah, we do know about classical music. There isn't really such a thing as 'objectively better', because then you'll be saying one thing is more musical than another. As I have said before, they are only so well known because someone put them in a history book.
#28
Quote by Elintasokas



That definitely is a strong piece, I'll give you that for sure.

I think we can all agree that there are a number of good pieces written by all of those guys, and that they are good in different ways.

I still prefer Beethoven's style though. He can get a great feel of power from his orchestra, and his sonatas are great too.

For me, Mozart is a little too waltzy, and little diddly trills, and uses a lot of common cadence to finish his phrases, for my taste. But he is obviously a genius nonetheless.
#30
^This. Three geniuses, that more or less can't be argued, we can only argue who we like better.

Each brings a unique voice and style to the table, and each has things we like and hate, but the things we like and hate doesn't negate their talent, only our perception of it.

Just cuz you hate fugues doesn't turn Bach into a hack, he still writes a kickass fugue, etc.

Also, I have to agree with GG. Classical music is not the pinnacle.

It's probably electronic music, because it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the natural world or our silly human limitations.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#31
Quote by GoldenGuitar
As I have said before, they are only so well known because someone put them in a history book.


Well, that statement’s misleading – you make it sound like these guys are little more than historical curiosities. Whether you like them or not, these men represent the pinnacles of their genres. Mozart and Beethoven have been continuously performed in the concert hall since their own lifetimes, and Bach since Mendelssohn “rediscovered” him (and Bach was never out of use in musical academia). No history books had anything to do with that. These composers are remembered because they were great composers, and their compositions are memorable.
#32
Quote by Harmosis
Well, that statement’s misleading – you make it sound like these guys are little more than historical curiosities. Whether you like them or not, these men represent the pinnacles of their genres. Mozart and Beethoven have been continuously performed in the concert hall since their own lifetimes, and Bach since Mendelssohn “rediscovered” him (and Bach was never out of use in musical academia). No history books had anything to do with that. These composers are remembered because they were great composers, and their compositions are memorable.


We're actually trying to stop that . Orchestras are dying all around the world, because they've been doing it waaaaaaaaaaaay to much. As a composer, I would rather they not continue to play the music of dead white European men and start playing some new stuff. Having said that, all three of those composers were innovators during their time, and I respect that.

No actually, what you're saying is only half correct. During every era, there's more music going on than just concert music. What about folk, tavern music, street music, bawdy songs etc.? Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven were really only important to "some" people (*cough* people with enough money to see concerts), that was the point I was trying to make.
#34
Quote by GoldenGuitar
We're actually trying to stop that . Orchestras are dying all around the world, because they've been doing it waaaaaaaaaaaay to much. As a composer, I would rather they not continue to play the music of dead white European men and start playing some new stuff.


That's neither here nor there to the point being made here.

Quote by GoldenGuitar
No actually, what you're saying is only half correct. During every era, there's more music going on than just concert music. What about folk, tavern music, street music, bawdy songs etc.? Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven were really only important to "some" people (*cough* people with enough money to see concerts), that was the point I was trying to make.


The fact that other music besides theirs has always been around is not an argument. I never said that only their music ever existed or exists, not did I say that they were important to all people. Got any actual arguments?
#35
I wasn't arguing against you though? I also never said they weren't important, but you said that I implied they weren't important. But they are only remembered because the people who wanted them remembered, wanted them to them to be remembered by everyone else too. Get my point? They could have easily been erased from the memories of people, if no one who program's concerts put any of their music in the programs.
I actually do like all three of them, and have a huge Bach and Beethoven collection (not so much Mozart though).
#36
I get your point but it's not true. You can't make people remember composers and/or compositions just because you want them to be remembered. It doesn't work that way. That's not the reason people remember these composers. The music is memorable - that's why it's remembered, that's why the music gets programmed.

It seems to me that you're actually trying to make a secondary point - that these composers shouldn't be programmed just because they've traditionally been programmed for the last 200+ years. It sounds like you're making a case for new music to be programmed, that we don't need to continue worshiping these old guys in the concert hall. Yes? If so, I basically agree. I personally think that there's room for everything though.
#37
Look, fair enough. They did write a lot of memorable stuff.

As for the second point. That is the argument that I'm making. I also agree that there is room for everything else too. Just in moderation.
#39
Honestly music that is in between Mozart and Bach is better than either of their work. Mach pieces, you know. Especially in D minor.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#40
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Bach is cool when you're 16.


You must've been almost as cool at 16 as I was

Quote by Jet Penguin
^This. Three geniuses, that more or less can't be argued, we can only argue who we like better.


+1, I love them all

that being said, if I have to pick, beethoven.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Page 1 of 4