#1
One of my favorite songs at the moment is Frantic Disembowelment by Cannibal Corpse.

Before anyone says anything, I am aware that I possess -100% of the skill required to even play this song slowly. I don't expect to play this song in the next 10+ years. But I would like to know a couple things.

What skills does someone need to practice to reasonably even attempt to learn this? String skipping etc. I would kill to be able to play this years from now, so being able to focus my practice on skills that would be necessary to play it would be fantastic.

My other question is, how does this stack up to something like Animals As Leaders or
Blotted Science ( Alex Webster's other project.)? Is this song as technical as something like CAFO?
#2
I tried listening to it, but I just couldn't do it..
From what I listened to it didn't sound very technical at all. Sounds like all the other generic high tempo tremolo picking death metal.. Perhaps there was a specific part you were interested in, but to me nothing technical stood out.
I've listened to CAFO (really didn't like the song unfortunately), but Cannibal Corpse is 100 times less technical than Animals as Leaders. There's a very very big difference between prog metal and death metal (or whatever you call Cannibal Corpse)
Last edited by vayne92 at Jun 17, 2015,
#3
If you don't expect to play this song in the next 10+ years, you don't need to think about anything specific to this song, or even this general style.

From your post, I am assuming you are a beginner in the early stages of learning. Focus on that. Develop general good technique & theory knowledge. As a learner, you need to get the basics down first.
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#4
it's just a repeating pattern moved around and played fast. honestly if it takes you 10 years to get to that then you need to quit .

seriously that looks more impressive than it really is. most of it was played with downstrokes and it's just fast. still it's just a repeaating pattern moved around the neck and is easier than you think. animals As Leaders is a whole different thing and not even comparable.

cheeseshark buddy with a little more time i i think you'll discover that many things aren't as hard as they seem to play. i know i've had more than 1 "that's all it is" moments when learning. the sound that EVH makes at the beginning of Atomic Punk comes to mind. couldn't figure that out for the life of me. when someone showed me it was like Doaah....
#5
Quote by vayne92
I tried listening to it, but I just couldn't do it..
From what I listened to it didn't sound very technical at all. Sounds like all the other generic high tempo tremolo picking death metal.. Perhaps there was a specific part you were interested in, but to me nothing technical stood out.
I've listened to CAFO (really didn't like the song unfortunately), but Cannibal Corpse is 100 times less technical than Animals as Leaders. There's a very very big difference between prog metal and death metal (or whatever you call Cannibal Corpse)


Quote by monwobobbo
it's just a repeating pattern moved around and played fast. honestly if it takes you 10 years to get to that then you need to quit .

seriously that looks more impressive than it really is. most of it was played with downstrokes and it's just fast. still it's just a repeaating pattern moved around the neck and is easier than you think. animals As Leaders is a whole different thing and not even comparable.

cheeseshark buddy with a little more time i i think you'll discover that many things aren't as hard as they seem to play. i know i've had more than 1 "that's all it is" moments when learning. the sound that EVH makes at the beginning of Atomic Punk comes to mind. couldn't figure that out for the life of me. when someone showed me it was like Doaah....


That is kinda interesting to hear. I've heard a few people cite it as a pretty difficult song, and the studio video make it look pretty pretty difficult to play. But I guess tapping sounds impressive until you can do it as well. And I don't honestly think it would take to 10 years to play this song, just over exaggerating a bit.

This is the video I was talking about, technical or not, at this point my left hand would probably fall off even trying that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Jun 17, 2015,
#6
What little I could stand of it looked pretty quick. Regardless of what exactly he's playing you'd have to work on speed for a while to get it down. Sorry, but I can't take much more of that song to bother figuring it out.
#7
Quote by Cheeseshark
That is kinda interesting to hear. I've heard a few people cite it as a pretty difficult song, and the studio video make it look pretty pretty difficult to play. But I guess tapping sounds impressive until you can do it as well. And I don't honestly think it would take to 10 years to play this song, just over exaggerating a bit.

This is the video I was talking about, technical or not, at this point my left hand would probably fall off even trying that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw


that's the same video i watched. yes it's fast and that will take some time for sure. if you watch his fingers (or the bass players) you'll see that it is a pattern based on a scale that just repeats. if you cn learn the pattern then building the speed is all that it would take. as i said it looks way harder than it is. shortly after i started to learn to play VH came out. eruption seemed like the most out of hand difficult guitar piece ever. now you see 11 year old kids burning it off on you tube. it's easier than it sounds.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
that's the same video i watched. yes it's fast and that will take some time for sure. if you watch his fingers (or the bass players) you'll see that it is a pattern based on a scale that just repeats. if you cn learn the pattern then building the speed is all that it would take. as i said it looks way harder than it is. shortly after i started to learn to play VH came out. eruption seemed like the most out of hand difficult guitar piece ever. now you see 11 year old kids burning it off on you tube. it's easier than it sounds.

So basically once you can play fast this isn't tough?
#9

So much bollocks in this thread.

Quote by vayne92
I tried listening to it, but I just couldn't do it..
From what I listened to it didn't sound very technical at all. Sounds like all the other generic high tempo tremolo picking death metal.. Perhaps there was a specific part you were interested in, but to me nothing technical stood out.

Then you're not listening carefully enough. Frantic Disembowelment is hard. Really REALLY hard. It's constant skipping strings, running all over the fretboard, alternate picking almost constantly through it all, and it just doesn't let up at all: It's 3 minutes of pure intense playing.

Quote by vayne92
I've listened to CAFO (really didn't like the song unfortunately), but Cannibal Corpse is 100 times less technical than Animals as Leaders. There's a very very big difference between prog metal and death metal (or whatever you call Cannibal Corpse)

Aaaaaaaand no. They're extremely different ways of playing but calling one inherently more technical than the other is just misleading; they use vastly different skills, and AAL may be faster when Tosin's shredding out but his playing isn't as purely demanding in terms of getting through a song, or set, than CC. Tosin uses a lot of sweeping and economy picking, a lot of legato and tapping, most of which you just won't find in the average CC song, and the kind of constant alternate picking, string skipping at speed, and tremolo picking will hardly ever turn up in an AAL song.

Quote by monwobobbo
it's just a repeating pattern moved around and played fast. honestly if it takes you 10 years to get to that then you need to quit .

seriously that looks more impressive than it really is. most of it was played with downstrokes and it's just fast. still it's just a repeaating pattern moved around the neck and is easier than you think. animals As Leaders is a whole different thing and not even comparable.

cheeseshark buddy with a little more time i i think you'll discover that many things aren't as hard as they seem to play. i know i've had more than 1 "that's all it is" moments when learning. the sound that EVH makes at the beginning of Atomic Punk comes to mind. couldn't figure that out for the life of me. when someone showed me it was like Doaah....

Again, this is really selling short the kinds of skills you need to be able to play that Cannibal Corpse song. Saying 'it's just a repeating pattern' is misleading at best; there is a central theme to the main riff but it's still really hard, as I mentioned above is skips strings a lot and flies about the fretboard a fair bit. It's also not downpicked, as if that makes it any easier anyway. Conceptually it may be simple, but then again so is the AAL track; most things really aren't difficult from an intellectual standpoint, but the playing it is a whole different thing.

Quote by monwobobbo
that's the same video i watched. yes it's fast and that will take some time for sure. if you watch his fingers (or the bass players) you'll see that it is a pattern based on a scale that just repeats. if you cn learn the pattern then building the speed is all that it would take. as i said it looks way harder than it is. shortly after i started to learn to play VH came out. eruption seemed like the most out of hand difficult guitar piece ever. now you see 11 year old kids burning it off on you tube. it's easier than it sounds.

I'll say it again: you're really selling this song short. It is HARD. REALLY HARD. Saying it like that does not get across the fact that the song itself, no matter how easy it might be to understand, is really bloody difficult to actually play!

Quote by Cheeseshark
So basically once you can play fast this isn't tough?

That's a gross oversimplification sadly. And that's not your fault, the others in this thread are really not getting across what's going on with this song. A section like this:


-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
--8-------9---9----|------8---5--------|--6---6-------5----|
------7-8---5------|--9-8---4-----3-4--|----2-----6-5---1--|
----6-----------6--|------------3------|--------3----------|


Is just hard, the idea may be basic but it's been refined and perfected; it's not even that fast, but that doesn't mean it's easy by any stretch. There are all kinds of things you could be able to play fast without being able to play this, because of the way it's played. Frankly, I'm a decently fast player, and I can't play this, because it's not part of the skill set that I've developed in my practice, but that doesn't stop me from being a decently quick player.

Blotted Science, as a band, is much more comparable, but again I don't know that I'd say anything about relative technicality. If only because comparing that way is entirely pointless. Even if you learned everything Blotted Science ever released, you'd still have to put in the time to practice this song; it might be shorter because you're an over all better player, and some of the skills are very similar, from the other music you've learned but you still don't know how long it's going to take you to learn a piece until you've done it.
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jun 18, 2015,
#10
zaphod buddy you need to really read what was said. no one said that it was "easy" just that it isn't as hard as it appears. it is fast no one can doubt that and to get it down that fast will take time and practice. it is a pattern as your tab shows. i'll have to watch the vido again but it did seem to have a lot of down picking and you can't effectively skip strings will double picking ( yes you can use upstrokes but not exactly the same thing).

you offered no tips on playing this why, as you seem to know the song and the CC style.
#11
Quote by monwobobbo
zaphod buddy you need to really read what was said. no one said that it was "easy" just that it isn't as hard as it appears. it is fast no one can doubt that and to get it down that fast will take time and practice. it is a pattern as your tab shows. i'll have to watch the vido again but it did seem to have a lot of down picking and you can't effectively skip strings will double picking ( yes you can use upstrokes but not exactly the same thing).

It's pretty clear that TS is not getting that from the language you're using and isn't getting that it is still a very difficult piece of music:
Quote by Cheeseshark
That is kinda interesting to hear. I've heard a few people cite it as a pretty difficult song, and the studio video make it look pretty pretty difficult to play.


Quote by monwobobbo
you offered no tips on playing this why, as you seem to know the song and the CC style.

Really though, there aren't many tips to playing this; it's the basics, taken to extremes. Standard technique still applies: alternate picking, economy of motion, relaxation, start slow and speed up, all that junk. For all the really hard bits there's really nothing unorthodox in terms of technique, it's just really solid application of the basics.
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#12
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
It's pretty clear that TS is not getting that from the language you're using and isn't getting that it is still a very difficult piece of music:


Really though, there aren't many tips to playing this; it's the basics, taken to extremes. Standard technique still applies: alternate picking, economy of motion, relaxation, start slow and speed up, all that junk. For all the really hard bits there's really nothing unorthodox in terms of technique, it's just really solid application of the basics.


ok fair enough.

Cheeseshark a lot of guitar looks hard when you don't know how to do it. take some time with the tab zaphod provided. if you wath the vid you will notice that the guitar players has his hand spread out to cover the distance of the frets and just hits the notes without moving his hand out of that position. be sure to watch the open strings when string skipping and try to mute them as you play. again takes time to learn. this will take some time to nail but i assure you once you really dig into it that past the speed it''s not as hard as it looks from a playing perspective. the speed and precision is the hard part.
#13
Excuse my ignorance then Zaphod. I've always highly respected your opinions and unfortunately I've never listened to Cannibal Corpse
Last edited by vayne92 at Jun 19, 2015,
#14
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr

So much bollocks in this thread.


Then you're not listening carefully enough. Frantic Disembowelment is hard. Really REALLY hard. It's constant skipping strings, running all over the fretboard, alternate picking almost constantly through it all, and it just doesn't let up at all: It's 3 minutes of pure intense playing.


Aaaaaaaand no. They're extremely different ways of playing but calling one inherently more technical than the other is just misleading; they use vastly different skills, and AAL may be faster when Tosin's shredding out but his playing isn't as purely demanding in terms of getting through a song, or set, than CC. Tosin uses a lot of sweeping and economy picking, a lot of legato and tapping, most of which you just won't find in the average CC song, and the kind of constant alternate picking, string skipping at speed, and tremolo picking will hardly ever turn up in an AAL song.


Again, this is really selling short the kinds of skills you need to be able to play that Cannibal Corpse song. Saying 'it's just a repeating pattern' is misleading at best; there is a central theme to the main riff but it's still really hard, as I mentioned above is skips strings a lot and flies about the fretboard a fair bit. It's also not downpicked, as if that makes it any easier anyway. Conceptually it may be simple, but then again so is the AAL track; most things really aren't difficult from an intellectual standpoint, but the playing it is a whole different thing.


I'll say it again: you're really selling this song short. It is HARD. REALLY HARD. Saying it like that does not get across the fact that the song itself, no matter how easy it might be to understand, is really bloody difficult to actually play!


That's a gross oversimplification sadly. And that's not your fault, the others in this thread are really not getting across what's going on with this song. A section like this:


-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
-------------------|-------------------|-------------------|
--8-------9---9----|------8---5--------|--6---6-------5----|
------7-8---5------|--9-8---4-----3-4--|----2-----6-5---1--|
----6-----------6--|------------3------|--------3----------|


Is just hard, the idea may be basic but it's been refined and perfected; it's not even that fast, but that doesn't mean it's easy by any stretch. There are all kinds of things you could be able to play fast without being able to play this, because of the way it's played. Frankly, I'm a decently fast player, and I can't play this, because it's not part of the skill set that I've developed in my practice, but that doesn't stop me from being a decently quick player.

Blotted Science, as a band, is much more comparable, but again I don't know that I'd say anything about relative technicality. If only because comparing that way is entirely pointless. Even if you learned everything Blotted Science ever released, you'd still have to put in the time to practice this song; it might be shorter because you're an over all better player, and some of the skills are very similar, from the other music you've learned but you still don't know how long it's going to take you to learn a piece until you've done it.



Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
It's pretty clear that TS is not getting that from the language you're using and isn't getting that it is still a very difficult piece of music:


Really though, there aren't many tips to playing this; it's the basics, taken to extremes. Standard technique still applies: alternate picking, economy of motion, relaxation, start slow and speed up, all that junk. For all the really hard bits there's really nothing unorthodox in terms of technique, it's just really solid application of the basics.


That does clarify things a lot more, thanks. I'll admit I was misunderstanding what the others were trying to say. Just out of curiosity what would you rate this song out of 10? Would I have to practice 8+ hours a day just to hope to play this in five years? I hope not, I have trouble focusing on one thing for that long.

So basically technique-wise nothing I won't find in Hammer Smashed Face, just pushed to its limits? Thanks again.

Quote by monwobobbo
ok fair enough.

Cheeseshark a lot of guitar looks hard when you don't know how to do it. take some time with the tab zaphod provided. if you wath the vid you will notice that the guitar players has his hand spread out to cover the distance of the frets and just hits the notes without moving his hand out of that position. be sure to watch the open strings when string skipping and try to mute them as you play. again takes time to learn. this will take some time to nail but i assure you once you really dig into it that past the speed it''s not as hard as it looks from a playing perspective. the speed and precision is the hard part.

Yeah I'll give it a try. I definitely don't expect to play even that riff up to speed yet. Though this song does give me a pretty difficult long term goal.
Last edited by Cheeseshark at Jun 19, 2015,
#15
Quote by Cheeseshark
That does clarify things a lot more, thanks. I'll admit I was misunderstanding what the others were trying to say. Just out of curiosity what would you rate this song out of 10? Would I have to practice 8+ hours a day just to hope to play this in five years? I hope not, I have trouble focusing on one thing for that long.


About the technique required to play the song and all that stuff was already covered, so I'll just answer your question there.

It's almost impossible to answer that question. It depends. I may take 2 months to learn it practicing 4 hours a day, but the other guy may take only 1 month while practicing the same 4 hours a day as me. There's no such thing as how much time it will take to become good at guitar or how long it will take you to learn a song. Yes, it depends a lot from the quality of your training, how much time you practice per day, etc, but the guitarist himself is one of the most important factors too. Some take longer learn, other's learn stuff way faster.

I suppose you haven't been playing guitar for too long, so try not to think too much about learning difficult songs. Start slow, work with easier songs and go from there. You'll eventually be able to play that song. You'll know it when you're ready
#16
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr

So much bollocks in this thread.


Then you're not listening carefully enough. Frantic Disembowelment is hard. Really REALLY hard. It's constant skipping strings, running all over the fretboard, alternate picking almost constantly through it all, and it just doesn't let up at all: It's 3 minutes of pure intense playing.


Pretty much this. People seem to greatly exaggerate the technical difficulty of death metal rhythm guitar. In my years of playing just about every subgenre of metal, I can say that death metal riffs, or at least the stuff done by the more brutal bands, is the most technically demanding thing in metal guitar.

People that don't have experience with death metal don't realize how involved things like this can get. String skipping, tremolo starting and stopping on demand, cross picking, not to mention the proper palm muting technique, which is more difficult than people realize when combined with all those other things.

And really, the stamina required is more difficult than anything, since you're down on the low strings. Bigger strings means more mass to move, and so it takes more energy. Nothing makes your hands sore quite like sliding powerchords around on the three low strings for an hour.

I would put it up there with the also underrated bluegrass rhythm guitar playing as arguably the most physically demanding thing you can play on guitar in terms of the required stamina and precision.
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#17
That makes sense. I have one last question, are the riffs themselves all super challenging to play? Or is the required endurance what makes this a really hard song?
#18
^^In that song in particular or death metal in general? Definitely not all death metal is that challenging to play; it depends on the song.

Since you seem to be into Cannibal Corpse, I can say that a song such as Hammer Smashed Face isn't nearly as difficult or physically demanding as Frantic Disembowelment. But to the casual listener (or more specifically, someone who doesn't have experience with death metal/doesn't care for it), they may all sound about the same in terms of difficulty.

It takes a trained ear to hear and appreciate all that is going on in death metal. Admittedly, the tempo of some death metal songs is so ferocious that most people really don't hear all of what's going on, and a simpler approach to some of the riffs might not sound entirely different to most people. Case in point -- Alex Webster's bass playing on CC records. He is one of the most talented bass players in existence -- yet a lot of what he does blends in to the mix; and it takes a critical ear to appreciate what he's doing. Don't let some of the comments in this thread dissuade you from learning that style.

The best advice I can give you is to take your time with it and enjoy the ride. Learn the skills (tremelo picking, galloping, start/stop riffs, palm and fret-hand muting, and string-skipping) separately and then focus on putting them together. Just realize that it can take years just to build up the endurance and stamina, let alone the skill to play some of the material in the DM genre.

I was playing for some of my students one day (and I'll go straight out and play death/black metal for them), and one of them asked me "Don't you get TIRED playing that way?" In the first few years of learning the genre, I would have. But now my right hand is like a robot hand -- it'll go until I tell it to stop.
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Last edited by KailM at Jun 20, 2015,
#19
Quote by KailM
^^In that song in particular or death metal in general? Definitely not all death metal is that challenging to play; it depends on the song.

Since you seem to be into Cannibal Corpse, I can say that a song such as Hammer Smashed Face isn't nearly as difficult or physically demanding as Frantic Disembowelment. But to the casual listener (or more specifically, someone who doesn't have experience with death metal/doesn't care for it), they may all sound about the same in terms of difficulty.

It takes a trained ear to hear and appreciate all that is going on in death metal. Admittedly, the tempo of some death metal songs is so ferocious that most people really don't hear all of what's going on, and a simpler approach to some of the riffs might not sound entirely different to most people. Case in point -- Alex Webster's bass playing on CC records. He is one of the most talented bass players in existence -- yet a lot of what he does blends in to the mix; and it takes a critical ear to appreciate what he's doing. Don't let some of the comments in this thread dissuade you from learning that style.

The best advice I can give you is to take your time with it and enjoy the ride. Learn the skills (tremelo picking, galloping, start/stop riffs, palm and fret-hand muting, and string-skipping) separately and then focus on putting them together. Just realize that it can take years just to build up the endurance and stamina, let alone the skill to play some of the material in the DM genre.

I was playing for some of my students one day (and I'll go straight out and play death/black metal for them), and one of them asked me "Don't you get TIRED playing that way?" In the first few years of learning the genre, I would have. But now my right hand is like a robot hand -- it'll go until I tell it to stop.

What exactly are start/stop riffs?
Also, since you seem to be familiar with CC can you recommend a song to learn after I finish Hammer Smashed Face?
#20
Quote by Cheeseshark
What exactly are start/stop riffs?
Also, since you seem to be familiar with CC can you recommend a song to learn after I finish Hammer Smashed Face?



I should have clarified myself on that, sorry. What I really ought to have said is "excellent control of muting with both hands."

A lot of death metal features chord progressions and riffing at blinding speeds, and then all of a sudden there will be a tempo change and you instantly switch to another style of riff. A "start/stop" is simply when you mute all sound for an instant and either play a similar idea again or switch to something else entirely. Since in death metal you'll be playing with a ton of gain, it's easier said than done -- your amp will not go silent from a heavy palm mute alone -- you must also mute with your fretting hand (and having a noise gate helps as well -- **but shouldn't be solely relied upon).

As for other CC songs, I can't really help you there. I've only got one of their albums -- Gore Obsessed. Some of it would be relatively easy but some of it would be difficult as well. "When Death Replaces Life" would be one of their slower songs, but it's got a great groove to it and might be a good song to try.

I'm more into bands like Decapitated, At the Gates, and Bloodbath when it comes to death metal...
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Last edited by KailM at Jun 22, 2015,