what are your opinions on stock buybacks? aka become a socialist today

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#3
#rekt

#oldguy

#politics

#hilarity
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#4
Quote by ErikLensherr
That sloppy old geezer needs a comb buyback.

#hillary


this is not a hillary vs bernie thread please stay on topic
#5
Don't you mean "become a pathetic, watered-down American socialist today", comrade?
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#6
Stock buybacks are short term speculative plays. A company believes it's stock price is too low and certain to rise. Sometimes they are wrong.

There are a lot of things about Bernie I like, but income equality/Marxism has been tried in the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Korea, Cambodia, and Venezuela. They rapidly turned into a manure pile 100x worse than the USA, with the systematic govt sanctioned murder of a bunch of their citizens. Need a better plan.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#9
Quote by Cajundaddy

There are a lot of things about Bernie I like, but income equality/Marxism has been tried in the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Korea, Cambodia, and Venezuela. They rapidly turned into a manure pile 100x worse than the USA, with the systematic govt sanctioned murder of a bunch of their citizens. Need a better plan.


irrelevant. different conditions and different policies.
#10
Quote by Godsmack_IV
irrelevant. different conditions and different policies.


That's what they said 5 years before they began murdering millions of their own citizens. "This time it will be different!" Marxism is consistently the best of intentions with the worst of outcomes.

Suggested reading to better understand why and how this happens: Animal Farm- George Orwell
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#11
Quote by Cajundaddy
That's what they said 5 years before they began murdering millions of their own citizens. "This time it will be different!" Marxism is consistently the best of intentions with the worst of outcomes.

Suggested reading to better understand why and how this happens: Animal Farm- George Orwell


read it.

very relevant to the system we have now where we have corporate elite ****ing everyone else over.

not so relevant to a systematic reform which would put those elites' power back into the hands of the masses by promoting worker cooperatives.

suggested reading, anything that actually explains how marxism is an analysis of how capitalism as a system where a privileged group controls profits becomes unsustainable in the long run faced with development of the means of production (see globalization and automation).
#12
Quote by Godsmack_IV
read it.

very relevant to the system we have now where we have corporate elite ****ing everyone else over.

not so relevant to a systematic reform which would put those elites' power back into the hands of the masses by promoting worker cooperatives.

suggested reading, anything that actually explains how marxism is an analysis of how capitalism as a system where a privileged group controls profits becomes unsustainable in the long run faced with development of the means of production (see globalization and automation).


If Marx came back today and looked at the 100 year history of Marxism in practice all around the world he would surely say: "I'm sorry, I was wrong!"

There are no utopian societies because basic human nature always intervenes.

Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. Socialism is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jun 22, 2015,
#13
Quote by Cajundaddy
If Marx came back today and looked at the 100 year history of Marxism in practice all around the world he would surely say: "I'm sorry, I was wrong!"

There are no utopian societies because basic human nature always intervenes.

Actually, he'd probably say "if you all had mighty beards like mine, the world would be a wondrous place. But even those lumbersexuals are getting it wrong. To hell with the lot of you".
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#14
Quote by Cajundaddy
If Marx came back today and looked at the 100 year history of Marxism in practice all around the world he would surely say: "I'm sorry, I was wrong!"


No, if you've read Marx he comes off as pretty pretentious and I think he would say "I'm sorry, you were wrong.".

But also irrelevant to the topic at hand. Are you running out of strawman arguments yet?
#15
I used to be like you, OP. Using words like the masses and means of production and saying this time it'll be different and trying to ignore every historical instance where socialism was tried and failed horribly. I'll pray you see the error of your ways. Before it's too late and you're an aging hippie weirdo like Bernie Sanders.

#Hillary
#16
Quote by Godsmack_IV
No, if you've read Marx he comes off as pretty pretentious and I think he would say "I'm sorry, you were wrong.".

But also irrelevant to the topic at hand. Are you running out of strawman arguments yet?


Marxism is the strawman here. It defines false hope.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#17
Quote by Cajundaddy

There are no utopian societies because basic human nature always intervenes.


The fact that utopian societies can't exist doesn't imply that we shouldn't strive for something better.

Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. Socialism is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill


Defining things in a way that reinforce your point while defying analysis is certainly one non-argument you could make to come across like a jackass.
#18
Just quoting wise men who clearly understood the folly of Marxism. If by "striving for something better" you mean something that has not been proven as an utter failure around the world, we agree.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jun 22, 2015,
#19
I'm not sure anyone visited the links posted but the harvard business review article was quite interesting.

So the suggested policies:

1) Ban buybacks

2) Limit stock-based pay

3) Change the make-up of boards of directors to include a wider range of stakeholders

4) Hike corporate taxes
#20
Harvard Bolshevik Review

I should seriously work for like Fox News.
Last edited by ErikLensherr at Jun 22, 2015,
#21
Godsmack is actually a socialist.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I debate him.


*tip*
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Violets are blue
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Shindeiru



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#22
Eliminating market speculation would go a long way towards making the economy healthy and viable.

Corporations don't actually pay taxes. Taxes are always paid by people. Either by shareholders (lower returns), customers (higher prices), or employees (lower wages).
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#23
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Godsmack is actually a socialist.

I'll keep that in mind the next time I debate him.


*tip*


I can't even remember the last time ug had a good debate.
#24
Quote by Godsmack_IV
I can't even remember the last time ug had a good debate.

It always ends up as a stalemate, because the Pit is full of master debators.
Quote by Diemon Dave
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#25
Quote by Cajundaddy
Corporations don't actually pay taxes. Taxes are always paid by people. Either by shareholders (lower returns), customers (higher prices), or employees (lower wages).


I guess the question we really should be asking is who should be footing the bill for economic growth?
#26
DISCLAIMER: THIS POST DOES OR DOES NOT REFLECT OR IMPLY THAT THE POSTER MAY OR MAY NOT LIKE SOCIALISTS


Basically how it works: corporations = people (the shareholders). The more stock you own in a company, the more equity you have in it (claim you have to its assets should the business liquidate/claim bankruptcy/etc), and a share in its dividends or lack of dividends should there be profit/loss/break-even.


So naturally, these stocks are recorded by the business on the credit side (the basic formula: Assets = Liabilities + Stockholders' Equity).

When the company buys back stock, it is called treasury stock, and that now becomes a debit.


PS. didn't read about the Sanders link, was just spittin' facts for fun
#27
Quote by Cajundaddy

There are a lot of things about Bernie I like, but income equality/Marxism has been tried in the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Korea, Cambodia, and Venezuela. They rapidly turned into a manure pile 100x worse than the USA, with the systematic govt sanctioned murder of a bunch of their citizens. Need a better plan.


you know it's kind of lame when people use these as examples to discredit the idea of even aspiring towards economic equality. and I don't even mean that in the typical "but these aren't actually communist" way. regardless of what you call them does anybody actually believe these governments have ever really cared about equality? lol

(this is just from skimming the thread I'll give an actual good response as we continue in the meantime just gonna enjoy listening to fat lard and people arguing with him )
#28
Quote by Cajundaddy
Stock buybacks are short term speculative plays. A company believes it's stock price is too low and certain to rise. Sometimes they are wrong.

There are a lot of things about Bernie I like, but income equality/Marxism has been tried in the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Korea, Cambodia, and Venezuela. They rapidly turned into a manure pile 100x worse than the USA, with the systematic govt sanctioned murder of a bunch of their citizens. Need a better plan.


Why do conservatives always make this leap? Bernie himself says he wants to more closely follow the Nordic model of social democracy. Are those countries "manure piles" with "systematic government sanctioned murder" of their own citizens?
#DTWD
#29
Bernie ought to stick to writing his rape fanfic and leave politics to the professionals.

ʎɹɐllᴉɥ#
#31
Quote by ErikLensherr
Harvard Bolshevik Review

LOL

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#32
Quote by slipknot5678
does anybody actually believe these governments have ever really cared about equality? lol


If you read what they actually wrote (Che, Chavez, Trotsky, Mao) it was always their intention to create a fully cooperative society with equal sharing of food, resources, and income. They had the best of intentions in the very beginning and believed Marxism was the true path to equality. Somewhere along the way basic human nature intervened, benevolence went out the window, and the murdering of citizens began "for the good of the republic." It didn't start out that way at all. History is very clear on this.

I never read Pol Pot or Kim Il Sung so I can't speak to their intent, but the fall from Marxism to totalitarian dictatorship happens very consistently over time.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#33
Quote by primusfan
Why do conservatives always make this leap? Bernie himself says he wants to more closely follow the Nordic model of social democracy. Are those countries "manure piles" with "systematic government sanctioned murder" of their own citizens?



Norway Finland and Denmark are fairly unique. They are clearly not Marxist socialism but share very high taxes and public social services. They are also fiercely competitive marketplaces in hi tech. Cost of living is also extremely high there so it is a tradeoff. Cost of electricity or dining out is typically 4x what it costs here. We could learn from these countries about managing public education better though.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/12/18/why-sweden-denmark-and-norway-have-high-taxes-and-still-show-up-to-work

One of my friends currently lives in Norway and loves it but she is highly skilled and in great demand. Others with less skill don't fare so well there and the winters are long.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jun 22, 2015,
#34
There you have it. Bernie Sanders: Wrong On Winter -- Wrong For America.

It's probably pretty easy to be a low-skill worker when you can go to college for almost, or actually, free in order to gain skills.
#DTWD
Last edited by primusfan at Jun 22, 2015,
#35
Quote by Cajundaddy
Animal Farm- George Orwell


Quote by Cajundaddy
Winston Churchill


Quote by Cajundaddy
basic human nature


adorable
i don't know why i feel so dry
#37
Quote by Godsmack_IV
I guess the question we really should be asking is who should be footing the bill for economic growth?


Economic growth occurs when capital is reinvested. Goods and services increase to the benefit of both consumers and producers in free markets. Nobody "foots the bill" for it.
#38
Quote by Rossenrot
Economic growth occurs when capital is reinvested. Goods and services increase to the benefit of both consumers and producers in free markets. Nobody "foots the bill" for it.


Now you're just being petty. Who should be the one's investing the capital considering the S&P 500 companies don't want to and instead look to the government to do it on their behalf? The money's gotta come from somewhere.
#39
Quote by Godsmack_IV
Now you're just being petty. Who should be the one's investing the capital considering the S&P 500 companies don't want to and instead look to the government to do it on their behalf? The money's gotta come from somewhere.

Maybe you should, then.

sell a kidney and some of your liver.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#40
The money comes from the customers that will it due to seeing it as the superior product, and is reinvested in different degrees of appreciation:depreciation
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