#1
C Aug: C, E, G#
E Aug: E, G#, C

Same chord, just an inversion. Of course, this would work for any 1/3 combo (G and B, for example) within a major scale. The bass could switch between the two roots. I was playing "Some Enchanted Evening" at the music store today through a Broadway music book (I was bored) and found this neat-o musical artifact.

Another thing I've found is that the diminished 7th chord (B, D, F for example) is nearly the same structure as the V7 (G7 in this case, G B D F). Bdim7. Shows the need for a bass player. c:

ALSO something that sounds neat: making the 4th chord in a major scale (so Fmaj) minor (Fmin) for a small period of time resolving to the 1st chord (Cmaj). Subbing the 2nd (Dmin) and making it diminished (Ddim, Ddim7) is neat and keeps the same feel.

Any other things I don't know about that I should? Or maybe proper names for these findings...
Last edited by Will Lane at Jun 22, 2015,
#2
a nitpicky point just for the sake of clarity: e augmented is e g# b#

the b# and c are enharmonic so they'll sound the same, but technically the c aug/e aug equivalency, as far as note naming, is incorrect
#3
^This can actually be a big deal.

E G# and B#(C) augmented all SOUND the same. They do not BEHAVE the same.

The second thing you are talking about is a primitive form of upper structure triads. A (B) diminished triad is an upper structure of G7.

The third thing is a form of modal interchange, referred to as mode mixture in some contexts. Dm7b5 probably works better than dim.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#4
Quote by :-D
a nitpicky point just for the sake of clarity: e augmented is e g# b#


Because
1 E
2 F
3 G
4 A
5 B
6 C

A chord is built from a 1,3 and 5. The third of E will ALWAYS be a G of some sort (Gb, G#, G natural) Thus the fifth of E will ALWAYS be a B of some sort. In augmented case that would be G# and B#. C would imply a sixth.
Last edited by liampje at Jun 22, 2015,
#5
You can impress people by calling an augmented triad a constellation of major thirds. You can also say augmented triads are uninvertible. You can also impress people by relating augmented triads to modes of limited transposition.

The V7 and VII chord both function as the dominant. You can impress people by calling the interval between 4 and 7 (which exists in both chords) the key defining tritone. You will impress guitar players and jazz musicians by saying that VII is a rootless V7, but you will disappoint classical musicians.

Notice that both examples you gave of mode mixture (aka modal interchange aka primary mixture) involve the b6 scale degree. You can impress people by understanding that this is actually a melodic device and not a harmonic one.
#6
It all depends on how it's supposed to look on paper. E+ is E G# and B#, but C+ is C E G#. B#= C in terms of how it looks on the fretboard, but they are 2 different notes on sheet music. Same applies when you want to play a G#maj chord in the key of C major. G#maj is G# B# D#, but we wouldn't say it's G# C D#, which would be a G#sus4 versus a G#major chord. It's all based on how the composer wants a particular chord to function in his/her piece.
#7
Wouldn't really be a G#sus4 in the traditional sense, but your point is made.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#8
Half diminished chords are inversions of minor 6th chords a 3rd away from the root

C# half diminished:

C#
E
G
B

E minor 6:

E
G
B
C#


the only way I've found this helpful is in memorizing how to play inversion on the guitar. Like you don't actually have to learn different shapes to play minor 6th chords and half diminished chords, but you do have to know when you're playing a minor 6th or a half diminished.


there are others that I will post when I think of them. My jazz theory is a bit rusty right now so I need to remember them


oh yeah Major 6th chords are inversions of Minor 7th chords

G major 6:

G
B
D
E

E Minor 7:

E
G
B
D
Last edited by MeGaDeth2314 at Jun 22, 2015,
#9
^There's a ton of those, and that is the solution to many of the harmonic issues a guitar runs into. Go check out my latest Jet Talks Jazz; I explore this concept in very large detail.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#10
Where can I find that?


EDIT nevermind I found it. Cool stuff, the chart is very useful
Last edited by MeGaDeth2314 at Jun 22, 2015,
#11
I've since changed a ton of it (always sidegrading my technique) but it's still a great valid tool.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#12
Quote by Jet Penguin
Wouldn't really be a G#sus4 in the traditional sense, but your point is made.

I agree. Personally, in that case, I'd make that particular chord Ab C Eb and say I borrwed Ab major.
#13
They're both also G#+ (G#, B#, D##)
Also, the upper triad of a minor 7th is a major triad (specifically the relative major)
Aminor7 = A C E G
C major = CE G
#14
Oh you make me want to breach the subject of triple flats...but I won't...I won't...no minds need explode today

*pushes the G Diminished 7th chord in a spare room and locks it*

Nothing to see here, folks...move along...

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jun 23, 2015,
#15
C aug (C E G#), E aug (E G# B#) and Ab aug (Ab C E) are enharmonic equivalents.

Same with Cdim7 (C Eb Gb Bbb), D#dim7 (D# F# A C), F#dim7 (F# A C Eb) and Adim7 (A C Eb Gb).

Minor iv chord in a major key is a borrowed chord from the parallel minor. Other common borrowed chords are bVI, bVII, bIII and v (minor), all borrowed from the parallel minor.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#16
diminished theory= three scales/four tonic chords -- augmented theory=four scales/three tonic chords...and yes you can blend them together to address ALL..major-minor and dominant chords..alot of work..you bet
play well

wolf
#17
Bear in mind that while they contain the same notes, you're going to use them in completely different places (or keys at least). If you play an E bass note with a C+ over it, it will not sound like E+. But your observation still shows an extremely useful pattern.

The way to take advantage of this "invertability" of certain chords is to get creative with how you play them on the neck; that is, how you voice the chords. Playing a tight voicing in root position can make the guitar chord sound like it's in root position, even when the bass is a different. The result is a bass and chord that don't match up, even thought they technically spell out a sensible chord.

Find ways to play chords that are more spread out, on different sets of strings, or different parts of the neck. Think of a chord as a set of notes and find different combinations of them.

You're on the right track by noticing these kinds of patterns. If you really want to take it to the next level, get started your triad inversions, then 7th chord inversions.
Last edited by cdgraves at Jun 24, 2015,
#18
Quote by jazz_rock_feel

The V7 and VII chord both function as the dominant.

Is it really like that? Or is it a simplification that both the dominant and the VII chord share the same dissonant interval?
#19
Quote by liampje
Is it really like that? Or is it a simplification that both the dominant and the VII chord share the same dissonant interval?

No it's really like that. They're both dominant function. The reason they're dominant function is because they have the


KEY DEFINING TRITONE