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#1
So I'm looking to buy my first legit amlifier and have been going through some secondhand stuff on the internet. Considering myprice range, quality, etc I've narrowed it down to two:

- 1984 Marshall lead 100 Mosfet (Solid state head) + the originall marshall 4x10 cab that goes with it for $447
- Line6 spider valve hd100 (Bogner designed Tube head) + Line6 4x12 cab + the footswitch that goes with it for $559

The marshall looks great, and although the line6 seems to offer more value for the moneyI remain a bit sceptical of the quality of modeling amp. Both are in very good shape.

What is your opinion, pro's vs. con's?

I'm looking forard to your input
#2
I'd buy the Marshall, but with a 4x12.
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#3
Quote by Fryderyczek
I'd buy the Marshall, but with a 4x12.


The seller only wants to sell it as set. so if i take the head i gotta take the cab too
#4
Quote by GuitarMayhem
The seller only wants to sell it as set. so if i take the head i gotta take the cab too

Then tough. Tell him you're interested in buying only the head. Tell him that you'll take it off his hands and if he won't sell it, either buy the L6 or look for another one

EDIT:Maybe someone else can chime in on the 4x10, I never knew they made them.
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#5
Does the SV come with the spider valve cab? I'd take the SV over the marshall any day. I had the SV HD100 MkI and it was a pretty nice amp that had lots of versatility. I gigged mine for almost 3 full years. It is a very under rated amp just because it has spider in the name.

But if the cab is not the spider valve cab it is not worth it
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#6
Quote by Robbgnarly
Does the SV come with the spider valve cab? I'd take the SV over the marshall any day. I had the SV HD100 MkI and it was a pretty nice amp that had lots of versatility. I gigged mine for almost 3 full years. It is a very under rated amp just because it has spider in the name.

But if the cab is not the spider valve cab it is not worth it


The cab is a line6 spidervalve 4 x 12 inch 320 watt
#7
Quote by Robbgnarly
Does the SV come with the spider valve cab? I'd take the SV over the marshall any day. I had the SV HD100 MkI and it was a pretty nice amp that had lots of versatility. I gigged mine for almost 3 full years. It is a very under rated amp just because it has spider in the name.

But if the cab is not the spider valve cab it is not worth it

They have V30's, right?
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#8
The spider valve cab has v30's, but the L6 cab rated at 320w is the spider cab, not the spider valve cab.

It uses "custom celestion speakers", which usually means they're shit.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#9
Yeah, the SV cab has V30's

I Spambot is right, the SV cab is 240watts (60watts x 4=240)
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#11
Quote by GuitarMayhem
So basically the 320watts cab sucks?

Yeah.
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#12
Quote by Fryderyczek
Yeah.


So if I buy the line6, sell the cab and get a better one it would still be line6 over marshall?
#13
Quote by GuitarMayhem
So if I buy the line6, sell the cab and get a better one it would still be line6 over marshall?

I'd get the Marshall
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#14
Quote by GuitarMayhem
So if I buy the line6, sell the cab and get a better one it would still be line6 over marshall?
That would be my opinion.

It'd be better if you could get the amp and pedalboard alone, but still a better deal.
And a better sound.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
Quote by GuitarMayhem
The seller only wants to sell it as set. so if i take the head i gotta take the cab too


If you were local, I'd split the cost with you 50/50. You take the Marshall head and I'll take the Marshall 4X10 cab.
#16
Get the SV, the mosfet lead is only a half-step removed from crap.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#18
Unless you play some big venues, this is overkill. If you live in an apartment, your neighbours will kill you.
Do you need that much volume to play over a band or something? There are a lot of amps in that price range that sound better for home use and band use. I understand the want for a stack, everyone wants one, but do you really need it?
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#19
Quote by Most_Triumphant
Unless you play some big venues, this is overkill. If you live in an apartment, your neighbours will kill you.

Please stop spreading disinformation.

Smaller amps don't sound better at low volumes than bigger amps just because they're smaller - everything sounds worse at lower volumes.

Also big amps have volume controls as well.
Use them.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#20
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Another option would be just to start over

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new or used
location


+1
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#21
Quote by Most_Triumphant
Unless you play some big venues, this is overkill. If you live in an apartment, your neighbours will kill you.
Do you need that much volume to play over a band or something? There are a lot of amps in that price range that sound better for home use and band use. I understand the want for a stack, everyone wants one, but do you really need it?

I practice through a 150watt Randall RG
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#23
Quote by diabolical
Definite no on the Line 6.


Why?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#24
Quote by diabolical
Definite no on the Line 6.

Honestly I agree. The Marshall seems like a better amp to me(Hell, I might get one soon, after a VS100).
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
#25
Quote by Fryderyczek
Honestly I agree. The Marshall seems like a better amp to me(Hell, I might get one soon, after a VS100).


I just don't get that. Sure, it says Marshall on it, but the valvestates and mosfet leads are crap.

My MG says Marshall as well, and it's a serious piece of crap.

In this case, the Spider Valve is a significantly better piece of gear. It's tonally superior (subjective of course, but still...) and VASTLY more versatile.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#26
Quote by Arby911
Why?


Several local guys had them and they all sounded bad. It is slightly better modeling amp with two tube warmup stages but it really isn't all that good.

Not crazy about the Marshall MOSFET either but I can make that work.

Don't know why the debate is really locked into these two amps?

Get a used Traynor YCV50B or VK and get it over with.
#27
Quote by diabolical
Several local guys had them and they all sounded bad. It is slightly better modeling amp with two tube warmup stages but it really isn't all that good.

Not crazy about the Marshall MOSFET either but I can make that work.

Don't know why the debate is really locked into these two amps?

Get a used Traynor YCV50B or VK and get it over with.


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#28
Quote by Arby911
I just don't get that. Sure, it says Marshall on it, but the valvestates and mosfet leads are crap.

My MG says Marshall as well, and it's a serious piece of crap.

In this case, the Spider Valve is a significantly better piece of gear. It's tonally superior (subjective of course, but still...) and VASTLY more versatile.

Not about it saying Marshall, it could say shitstain and I'd buy it.

I want it because it sounds good, both amps. Sure you may not like it, but I do.
There are certain things that SS amps like these two have that you don't get out of Valve amps.
Well, you can call me crazy
You can call me wrong, 'cause
See I was born a liar, albatross
Fly on, fly on
Last edited by Fryderyczek at Jun 30, 2015,
#29
Quote by Spambot_2
Please stop spreading disinformation.

Smaller amps don't sound better at low volumes than bigger amps just because they're smaller - everything sounds worse at lower volumes.

Also big amps have volume controls as well.
Use them.

Actually its not about having less noise its about having more tone without having to crank your amp till your ears bleed. So I don't think that is disinformation, in order for a 300 watt amp to start breaking up (natural distortion) you would be deaf before you even heard it. So yeah there are better amps out there for bands and shows. I personally don't understand the need for a 300 watt amp for guitar unless you are playing outside festivals that don't mic anything through a PA at all. 30 watts is way better and easier to transport and when mic'ed still sounds awesome. Even lower watts like my OR 15 is really awesome. Had I got a marshall DSL or some amp with super high power it might sound flippin loud but not really that awesome. Lower watts saturate the tubes much more and allow you to have a good sound without deafening volume. Just wanted to share that cause I just had this convo today with a friend lol.
#30
Quote by diabolical
Several local guys had them and they all sounded bad. It is slightly better modeling amp with two tube warmup stages but it really isn't all that good.

Not crazy about the Marshall MOSFET either but I can make that work.

Don't know why the debate is really locked into these two amps?

Get a used Traynor YCV50B or VK and get it over with.


I'm from the Netherlands, we don't have a huge market in secondhand amps. secondly, that market is almost completely made up out of smaller combo amps or $1500-$2000 amp heads which I don't have the money for. Since I want to up my amp game a bit a stack in the price range of 400-500 would be perfect and these are the only ones available. I might just go with the SV because of its versatility and the fact that i can pick it up at a village 15 km from my city while I would have to drag the mosfet about halfway across the country
Last edited by GuitarMayhem at Jun 30, 2015,
#31
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Actually its not about having less noise its about having more tone without having to crank your amp till your ears bleed. So I don't think that is disinformation, in order for a 300 watt amp to start breaking up (natural distortion) you would be deaf before you even heard it. So yeah there are better amps out there for bands and shows. I personally don't understand the need for a 300 watt amp for guitar unless you are playing outside festivals that don't mic anything through a PA at all. 30 watts is way better and easier to transport and when mic'ed still sounds awesome. Even lower watts like my OR 15 is really awesome. Had I got a marshall DSL or some amp with super high power it might sound flippin loud but not really that awesome. Lower watts saturate the tubes much more and allow you to have a good sound without deafening volume. Just wanted to share that cause I just had this convo today with a friend lol.


Your OR15 sounds good because it's a good design. Not because it's 15W. You're misinterpreting the reason why amps sound good or not.

A good amp will sound good regardless of volume.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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Ibanez S420
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Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#32
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Actually its not about having less noise its about having more tone without having to crank your amp till your ears bleed. So I don't think that is disinformation, in order for a 300 watt amp to start breaking up (natural distortion) you would be deaf before you even heard it. So yeah there are better amps out there for bands and shows. I personally don't understand the need for a 300 watt amp for guitar unless you are playing outside festivals that don't mic anything through a PA at all. 30 watts is way better and easier to transport and when mic'ed still sounds awesome. Even lower watts like my OR 15 is really awesome. Had I got a marshall DSL or some amp with super high power it might sound flippin loud but not really that awesome. Lower watts saturate the tubes much more and allow you to have a good sound without deafening volume. Just wanted to share that cause I just had this convo today with a friend lol.


You might want to do a little research on preamp v. power amp distortion. Very few musicians today use power amp distortion and you don't need to crank an amp to get preamp distortion. You are misinformed.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#33
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Actually its not about having less noise its about having more tone without having to crank your amp till your ears bleed.
You're under the wrong impression that amps can't sound good until the power section starts distorting.

Can you even imagine some people don't want their power section to distort so they have a more tight and focused tone?
Quote by Bromandudeguy
in order for a 300 watt amp to start breaking up (natural distortion) you would be deaf before you even heard it.
If you use efficient speakers then a 5w amp is hella loud as well.

A lot more than enough to piss of your neighbors.
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Had I got a marshall DSL or some amp with super high power it might sound flippin loud but not really that awesome.
I suggest you take a look at a DSL's front panel.

The gain knob adjusts how much the input signal gets attenuated after the first (or first couple, dunnow exactly) gain stages.
The "natural state" of the amp, if it didn't have that knob, would be as if the knob was max'd out.

So, in its "natural state", using a simpler circuit, the amp's input stage would distort at any volume level.
A lot.
That would be "natural distortion" as you called it, opposed to I don't really know what.
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Lower watts saturate the tubes much more and allow you to have a good sound without deafening volume.
You're not gonna believe this, but amps can sound good clean.

Also amps can sound good with more distortion than any 5w amp can produce by overdriving the power section, which is what you're advocating is the best solution in any given situation.

Also again, even a 5w amp turned up to a little bit of distortion coming from the power section is enough to make any neighbor complain about the noise.

Distortion tho can come from the preamp section as well, the amount being controlled by the gain knob, and to a lot of people that is more than enough, mostly because they don't care about power section distortion.
Using the gain knob somebody can also obtain a distorted tone at low volume levels.
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Just wanted to share that cause I just had this convo today with a friend lol.
Just wanted to share that 'cause I had this convo with a lot of other know-it-all idiots lol.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#34
Quote by Spambot_2
You're under the wrong impression that amps can't sound good until the power section starts distorting.

Can you even imagine some people don't want their power section to distort so they have a more tight and focused tone?
If you use efficient speakers then a 5w amp is hella loud as well.

A lot more than enough to piss of your neighbors.
I suggest you take a look at a DSL's front panel.

The gain knob adjusts how much the input signal gets attenuated after the first (or first couple, dunnow exactly) gain stages.
The "natural state" of the amp, if it didn't have that knob, would be as if the knob was max'd out.

So, in its "natural state", using a simpler circuit, the amp's input stage would distort at any volume level.
A lot.
That would be "natural distortion" as you called it, opposed to I don't really know what.
You're not gonna believe this, but amps can sound good clean.

Also amps can sound good with more distortion than any 5w amp can produce by overdriving the power section, which is what you're advocating is the best solution in any given situation.

Also again, even a 5w amp turned up to a little bit of distortion coming from the power section is enough to make any neighbor complain about the noise.

Distortion tho can come from the preamp section as well, the amount being controlled by the gain knob, and to a lot of people that is more than enough, mostly because they don't care about power section distortion.
Using the gain knob somebody can also obtain a distorted tone at low volume levels.
Just wanted to share that 'cause I had this convo with a lot of other know-it-all idiots lol.


last statement is diplomacy at it's finest . Spam is correct though, you certainly don't need power section distortion to sound good. i run a 50 watt tube combo for practice without the swat team kicking my door down. the only actual thing about a 100 watt head and 4x12 is the temptation to crank it up and piss off the neighbors. having said that my 60 watt 2x12 can piss people several doors down off no problem. yeah amps often sound better louder but to just sit at home and practice you don't need ear shattering volume.
#35
Pretty much everyone I know on the rock and metal scene over here (Houston) uses power amp distortion, at least when recording, so from my perspective I'd say most people I know use preamp and power amp overdrive, unless they use a shoddy modeler.
#36
My Laney VC30 has a defining point where the speakers start driving the low, and below it where it sounds like a 15watt ss beginner no name amp. I'm not talking about the implied point of best power distortion break up.

A lot of (tube) amps also have a spot where below this volume it sounds as if there's a blanket over it, no lows, distant sound, and a general lack of dynamic "spice". I would not have bought this amp, if I could not get it at least above the treshold.

The 2nd point, the optimal break-up I can never get without waking up the neighbours.

In short, can you play with it at lower volumes, yes, but it's not just the breakup that matters, certain amps/speaker need certain power/volume to even get any character at all, or it sounds thin and distant.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jun 30, 2015,
#37
Quote by Bromandudeguy
Actually its not about having less noise its about having more tone without having to crank your amp till your ears bleed. So I don't think that is disinformation, in order for a 300 watt amp to start breaking up (natural distortion) you would be deaf before you even heard it. So yeah there are better amps out there for bands and shows. I personally don't understand the need for a 300 watt amp for guitar unless you are playing outside festivals that don't mic anything through a PA at all. 30 watts is way better and easier to transport and when mic'ed still sounds awesome. Even lower watts like my OR 15 is really awesome. Had I got a marshall DSL or some amp with super high power it might sound flippin loud but not really that awesome. Lower watts saturate the tubes much more and allow you to have a good sound without deafening volume. Just wanted to share that cause I just had this convo today with a friend lol.

No, not at all. I guarantee my JCM DSL100 sounds better at any volume than your orange OR15.

It is the design of the amp, not the wattage that makes the biggest impact on tone.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#39
I can turn my RM100 down further than my RM20. Power output tells you nothing about how it will work at low volumes.


Do what 311 said. I wouldn't own either of the two amps you have listed there.
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#40
I always thought that it was If you were cranking the distortion without the master level being very high then your only really working the pre amp and not really getting the full range of the amp as opposed to cranking the master level and only a little bit of gain. That's what I don't get because when I owned other high wattage amps I could never do that without it being insanely loud or using some sort of attenuator. I also don't play metal anymore just rock/blues stuff. I still think the sound is different if you aren't able to push the master volume and get a little gain to get the tubes going and with a 300 watt amp you just cant without insane loudness. Also spambot 2 sorry if you got butt hurt lol. And yes I realize that low wattage amps still get loud lol.
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